Do you want to discuss boring politics? (110 Viewers)

[Grendel]

So...

I guess May's is for after dinner speaking, which begs the question how much an interesting person could earn! Wtf is Redwood doing up there? What abilities does he have? Equally, why is Jess Phillips one of only two Labour MPs in the list (I think Lammy's is for a radio show)?

Lammy has several different jobs - he also is one of the highest expense claimants - £260k last year

 

---

[Ian1779]

Apparently NASUWT’s turnout wasn’t high enough for strike action to be legally binding.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

UCU planning *eighteen days* of strike action in February and March. That might hurt our mortgage application!

 

[chiefdave]

Apparently NASUWT’s turnout wasn’t high enough for strike action to be legally binding.

Should apply the same threshold to electing MPs and councillors

 

[clint van damme]

Apparently NASUWT’s turnout wasn’t high enough for strike action to be legally binding.

Bollocks isn't it?
42%. Wonder how many politicians and councillors were elected on lower turn outs?

 

[rob9872]

Councillors likely, but zero MP's on lower than 42%. Kingston on Thames the lowest in Parliament on 49.3% all of the others over 50%. Average of 67.3% (down in 2019 from 2017). Of the highest 30 constituency turnouts 18 were Conservative, 5 were Lib Dem, 4 were Labour and 3 SNP.


Of the lowest 30 turnouts, 24 were won by Labour, 5 Conservative and 1 SNP.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-turnout/

 

[fernandopartridge]

Councillors likely, but zero MP's on lower than 42%. Kingston on Thames the lowest in Parliament on 49.3% all of the others over 50%. Average of 67.3% (down in 2019 from 2017). Of the highest 30 constituency turnouts 18 were Conservative, 5 were Lib Dem, 4 were Labour and 3 SNP.


Of the lowest 30 turnouts, 24 were won by Labour, 5 Conservative and 1 SNP.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-turnout/

Unsurprising as Tories are elected by older people living in rural / semi rural areas who tend to turn out more. The key point is though, even if the turnout in a General Election was sub <50% the MP would be elected.

 

[clint van damme]

Councillors likely, but zero MP's on lower than 42%. Kingston on Thames the lowest in Parliament on 49.3% all of the others over 50%. Average of 67.3% (down in 2019 from 2017). Of the highest 30 constituency turnouts 18 were Conservative, 5 were Lib Dem, 4 were Labour and 3 SNP.


Of the lowest 30 turnouts, 24 were won by Labour, 5 Conservative and 1 SNP.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-turnout/

So theyre still happy for a tory mp to be elected on a turn out below the threshold set for union?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Meanwhile, it seems we're being harder on immigration than ministers are claiming...

British Council workers in Afghanistan step closer to UK relocation

Minister speaks of ‘progress’ on security checks, but Foreign Office clarifies no green light yet for contractors

www.theguardian.com

 

[skybluetony176]

Councillors likely, but zero MP's on lower than 42%. Kingston on Thames the lowest in Parliament on 49.3% all of the others over 50%. Average of 67.3% (down in 2019 from 2017). Of the highest 30 constituency turnouts 18 were Conservative, 5 were Lib Dem, 4 were Labour and 3 SNP.


Of the lowest 30 turnouts, 24 were won by Labour, 5 Conservative and 1 SNP.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-turnout/

That would be a percentage of the vote cast not a percentage of those eligible to vote. Pretty sure with the unions it has to be a percentage of those eligible to vote not a percentage of the votes cast. Basically anyone who was eligible to vote but didn’t was automatically counted as a no.

 

[rob9872]

So theyre still happy for a tory mp to be elected on a turn out below the threshold set for union?

Any MP, not only Conservative (in fact the only sub 50% was a Labour Hold)

 

[skybluetony176]

Should apply the same threshold to electing MPs and councillors

Or referendums.

 

[rob9872]

Reminds me of the Rotten Borough episode in Blackadder

 

[fernandopartridge]

Should apply the same threshold to electing MPs and councillors

Or referendums.

I disagree. The rules governing strike ballots are wrong not the ones governing parliamentary / local elections.

 

[clint van damme]

Any MP, not only Conservative (in fact the only sub 50% was a Labour Hold)

It's still wrong. Although am I right in saying the Tories imposed the 50 percent threshold?

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's still wrong. Although am I right in saying the Tories imposed the 50 percent threshold?

It isn't wrong really though is it? It might be if / when voter ID is brought in which creates an unnecessary restriction but currently the opportunity is there to vote by post or by visiting a polling station. People exercise their democratic right to vote or not to vote.

 

[clint van damme]

It isn't wrong really though is it? It might be if / when voter ID is brought in which creates an unnecessary restriction but currently the opportunity is there to vote by post or by visiting a polling station. People exercise their democratic right to vote or not to vote.

When I say wrong, I mean the double standards.
There'd be mayhem at local elections if a 50 percent tun out was imposed.
But this threshold should never have been put on to unions

 

[Grendel]

When I say wrong, I mean the double standards.
There'd be mayhem at local elections if a 50 percent tun out was imposed.
But this threshold should never have been put on to unions

It’s worth pointing out that one argument against the brexit vote was less than 50% and therefore was not legitimate due to the turnout figure

You can’t really compare elections as someone has to be elected

If there is no threshold and 5% bothered to vote to strike is that legitimate?

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s worth pointing out that one argument against the brexit vote was less than 50% and therefore was not legitimate due to the turnout figure

You can’t really compare elections as someone has to be elected

If there is no threshold and 5% bothered to vote to strike is that legitimate?

It was more an argument against the often touted line that half the country voted for it when half the eligible voters in the country didn’t vote for it let alone half the country. Not nearly the same thing.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It’s worth pointing out that one argument against the brexit vote was less than 50% and therefore was not legitimate due to the turnout figure

You can’t really compare elections as someone has to be elected

If there is no threshold and 5% bothered to vote to strike is that legitimate?

Yes

 

[Grendel]

It was more an argument against the often touted line that half the country voted for it when half the eligible voters in the country didn’t vote for it let alone half the country. Not nearly the same thing.

So you agree it was legitimate and claims for a second referendum were totally invalid?

 

[clint van damme]

It’s worth pointing out that one argument against the brexit vote was less than 50% and therefore was not legitimate due to the turnout figure

You can’t really compare elections as someone has to be elected

If there is no threshold and 5% bothered to vote to strike is that legitimate?

But everyone has the chance to vote.
I don't agree with the argument that a sub 50 percent turnout would have invalidated the brexit vote.

 

[skybluetony176]

So you agree it was legitimate and claims for a second referendum were totally invalid?

Depends on what you mean by legitimate. There’s no questioning the binary result of the question asked but result was high jacked from what was asked ie turning the clock back to 31/12/1972 to turning the clock back to 02/05/1960 and some elements are trying to highjack it again to turn the clock further back to 04/05/1949.

A second referendum was common sense given that the goalposts were changed after the event. What happened wasn’t democracy, it was a con.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s worth pointing out that one argument against the brexit vote was less than 50% and therefore was not legitimate due to the turnout figure

You can’t really compare elections as someone has to be elected

If there is no threshold and 5% bothered to vote to strike is that legitimate?

Yes. Not voting is a vote to allow others to make the decision. There’s little evidence non voters vote significantly differently to those that do.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yes. Not voting is a vote to allow others to make the decision. There’s little evidence non voters vote significantly differently to those that do.

Hmmm, yes and no. You could say everyone knows the turnout requirements so if people really wanted to go on strike they’d make sure they’d vote.

I wonder if there was a general election with specific turnout requirements would it lead to more people voting or less in protest. On balance I think it may increase the number of votes as it would encourage/force people to make a call …unless the choice was out of Boris or Corbo again

I suppose the next question is, what should the rules be ?

 

[shmmeee]

Hmmm, yes and no. You could say everyone knows the turnout requirements so if people really wanted to go on strike they’d make sure they’d vote.

I wonder if there was a general election with specific turnout requirements would it lead to more people voting or less in protest. On balance I think it may increase the number of votes as it would encourage/force people to make a call …unless the choice was out of Boris or Corbo again

I suppose the next question is, what should the rules be ?

And equally you could say if people don’t want to strike they can vote against. The fact is most either don’t find the time or aren’t bothered either way. Which is fine and they defer their vote to those that do.

Why is it only strikes this applies to? It’s clearly an attempt to put thumb on the scale against a yes vote.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Hmmm, yes and no. You could say everyone knows the turnout requirements so if people really wanted to go on strike they’d make sure they’d vote.

I wonder if there was a general election with specific turnout requirements would it lead to more people voting or less in protest. On balance I think it may increase the number of votes as it would encourage/force people to make a call …unless the choice was out of Boris or Corbo again

I suppose the next question is, what should the rules be ?

I don't believe in forced votes for an election as it doesn't allow me a democratic right not to vote for any of the parade of arseholes on the ballot paper.

 

[1nilandwe...]

I don't believe in forced votes for an election as it doesn't allow me a democratic right not to vote for any of the parade of arseholes on the ballot paper.

"None of the above" could easily become an option.
And you are welcome to spoil your ballot paper.

 

[Grendel]

Yes

how does it work though if only 40% vote and just more than half decide to strike. 79% haven’t opted to strike - I assume they can still work as they didn’t want to strike?

 

[fernandopartridge]

how does it work though if only 40% vote and just more than half decide to strike. 79% haven’t opted to strike - I assume they can still work as they didn’t want to strike?

Yes. You can vote to strike and not actually take part in the strike and conversely strike even if you voted not to or didn't vote at all as long as you are a member of the union.

The ballot exists only to show to the employer that a vote has taken place and a majority of those voting voted in favour of strike action.

 

[rob9872]

"None of the above" could easily become an option.
And you are welcome to spoil your ballot paper.

Isnt this the options for Australians in compulsory voting?

 

[CCFCSteve]

"None of the above" could easily become an option.
And you are welcome to spoil your ballot paper.

dirty protest

 

[shmmeee]

how does it work though if only 40% vote and just more than half decide to strike. 79% haven’t opted to strike - I assume they can still work as they didn’t want to strike?

How many haven’t opted not to strike? Why are you assuming one option is the default?

 

[Grendel]

How many haven’t opted not to strike? Why are you assuming one option is the default?

Im asking if they can still work and not have this scab nonsense chucked at them

 

[shmmeee]

Im asking if they can still work and not have this scab nonsense chucked at them

Legally or morally? Legally you’ve not been able to stop or intimidate people crossing the picket line for a while.