Do you want to discuss boring politics? (54 Viewers)

[PVA]

Country is on its arse they can’t see it, And they’ll get the hammering at the polls they deserve next year!!

Oh they can see it.

They just haven't got a fucking clue how to fix it because they're all just utterly incompetent and out of their depth.

 

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[Ian1779]

Oh they can see it.

They just haven't got a fucking clue how to fix it because they're all just utterly incompetent and out of their depth.

I actually think they intentionally want to ignore it/allow it to happen. Milk what they can out of it then fuck off and watch it burn from the sides.

 

[Grendel]

If he wants to eradicate private schools the quickest way would actually be to award state schools a bumper pay rise.

im not trying to create an argument here but out of interest Would you accept a 12% pay rise if pension contributions reduced to 11%?

 

[Ian1779]

im not trying to create an argument here but out of interest Would you accept a 12% pay rise if pension contributions reduced to 11%?

Do you mean employer contributions?

 

[Grendel]

Do you mean employer contributions?

yes

 

[Ian1779]

yes

The argument would be it reducing from 23.8% to 11% - so a 12% pay rise for this year and a commitment to an inflation matching pay rise every year for the foreseeable?
Knowing that my pension is still over 20 years away, for others even longer - would that sway it?

 

[Grendel]

The argument would be it reducing from 23.8% to 11% - so a 12% pay rise for this year and a commitment to an inflation matching pay rise every year for the foreseeable?
Knowing that my pension is still over 20 years away, for others even longer - would that sway it?

Well that’s the question yes.

I think a major issue across the public sector - if the figures are correct - is that a job for life philosophy is created. If it’s 23% that’s bonkers

Workforces are more transient now so if I was in government I’d give the wage rises and slash pension contributions to normal levels. You can’t babe inflation pay rises and gold plated pensions but I think that’s a reasonable compromise

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think a major issue across the public sector - if the figures are correct - is that a job for life philosophy is created.

Isn't around us - more cuts on the way!

 

[Grendel]

Isn't around us - more cuts on the way!

what’s your employer pension contribution in your public sector job?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I assume that’s an independent assessment is it?

Course not

 

[Grendel]

The argument would be it reducing from 23.8% to 11% - so a 12% pay rise for this year and a commitment to an inflation matching pay rise every year for the foreseeable?
Knowing that my pension is still over 20 years away, for others even longer - would that sway it?

im actually interested in the discussion as companies like JLR have an RPI plus 3% rise for track workers and it’s 14% which they’ve tried to get out of but i think will pay

However the final salary pensions were scrapped and a private scheme through Zurich was installed. It’s a compromise

So will public sector unions agree the same philosophy? Lynch demanding no redundancies is stupid - no private company would do that

 

[stupot07]

Isn't around us - more cuts on the way!

Yeah, "job for life in the public sector" is just a lazy trope that bears semblance of the reality of the public sector.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well that’s the question yes.

I think a major issue across the public sector - if the figures are correct - is that a job for life philosophy is created. If it’s 23% that’s bonkers

Workforces are more transient now so if I was in government I’d give the wage rises and slash pension contributions to normal levels. You can’t babe inflation pay rises and gold plated pensions but I think that’s a reasonable compromise

When I was in the civil service the employer contribution was about 18% but I think it's decreased. NHS scheme is higher. Of course this is the price for often paying professional people less than they might get in the private sector.

 

[fernandopartridge]

im actually interested in the discussion as companies like JLR have an RPI plus 3% rise for track workers and it’s 14% which they’ve tried to get out of but i think will pay

However the final salary pensions were scrapped and a private scheme through Zurich was installed. It’s a compromise

So will public sector unions agree the same philosophy? Lynch demanding no redundancies is stupid - no private company would do that

Final salary pensions went years ago G, keep up mate

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

im not trying to create an argument here but out of interest Would you accept a 12% pay rise if pension contributions reduced to 11%?

I'm over 30 years away from retirement, so I'd stand to lose more from an inferior pension. Current teacher's pension scheme runs at 23.8% from the employer. Considering my wage rises get swallowed up by student loan repayments, I'd rather have a better pension.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

When I was in the civil service the employer contribution was about 18% but I think it's decreased. NHS scheme is higher. Of course this is the price for often paying professional people less than they might get in the private sector.

I thought civil service pension was at 27%?

 

[Grendel]

I'm over 30 years away from retirement, so I'd stand to lose more from an inferior pension. Current teacher's pension scheme runs at 23.8% from the employer. Considering my wage rises get swallowed up by student loan repayments, I'd rather have a better pension.

So you want both? Wow

 

[Grendel]

Final salary pensions went years ago G, keep up mate

JLr was 5 years ago and an agreement of RPI plus 3% was part of the negotiating compromise

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you want both? Wow

I want the government to spend more on education full stop-we are ahead only of the USA in the first world in how we value education as a society.

 

[Grendel]

I want the government to spend more on education full stop-we are ahead only of the USA in the first world in how we value education as a society.

?

OECD: expenditure per student on education 2020 | Statista

Out of the OECD countries, Luxembourg was the country that spent the most on educational institutions per full-time student in 2020.

www.statista.com

 

[fernandopartridge]

I thought civil service pension was at 27%?

Maybe I'm wrong as I've not seen a statement for nearly 10 years but I'm sure it was 18%.

 

[fernandopartridge]

JLr was 5 years ago and an agreement of RPI plus 3% was part of the negotiating compromise

Iirc they started to talk about changing final salary to career average under the last Labour government

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah, "job for life in the public sector" is just a lazy trope that bears semblance of the reality of the public sector.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

41% leave within ten years. Some job for life. Man is absolutely delusional.

 

[shmmeee]

?

OECD: expenditure per student on education 2020 | Statista

Out of the OECD countries, Luxembourg was the country that spent the most on educational institutions per full-time student in 2020.

www.statista.com

13th for secondary education. Not great is it?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So you want both? Wow

MP's routinely get above inflation pay-rises and defined benefit pensions.

Seems odd that they think such demands would destroy the economy. Surely they'd lead by example and be first in line to relinquish those gold-plated pensions and accept lower pay-rises? Many company bosses have seen eye-watering pay increases along with pension contributions.

Or do they think it's one rule for a certain sector of society and another for the ordinary people?

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Iirc they started to talk about changing final salary to career average under the last Labour government

Thanks to Tory austerity from 2014 FSPs in local government became average salary pensions. Moving the goalposts is a classic Conservative & Unionest Party trick. Imagine if they tried that with the Bankers and MPs.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Thanks to Tory austerity from 2014 FSPs in local government became average salary pensions. Moving the goalposts is a classic Conservative & Unionest Party trick. Imagine if they tried that with the Bankers and MPs.

From memory I think Brown fucked pensions/FSPs for the private sector and contributed to them becoming unaffordable (although ultimately I believe they would’ve been finished long term anyway due to people living longer). So why shouldn’t public sector follow suit…if they’re unviable/unaffordable due to people living longer and pension rules/regs, of course they need to change.

Brown defied warnings over pension tax relief | Business | The Guardian

Gordon Brown was warned by officials that he risked long term damage to Britain's occupational pensions industry when he pressed ahead with a £5bn a year cut in tax relief in his first budget.

amp.theguardian.com

I do agree that MPs should’ve sacrificed theirs first to lead the way though

I read a suggestion recently that public sector and nurses in particular should be able to flex their emp’ers contributions a bit over an agreed period to free up a higher basic wage. Most need the cash now so this makes sense

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

From memory I think Brown fucked pensions/FSPs for the private sector and contributed to them becoming unaffordable (although ultimately I believe they would’ve been finished long term anyway due to people living longer). So why shouldn’t public sector follow suit…if they’re unviable/unaffordable due to people living longer and pension rules/regs, of course they need to change.

Brown defied warnings over pension tax relief | Business | The Guardian

Gordon Brown was warned by officials that he risked long term damage to Britain's occupational pensions industry when he pressed ahead with a £5bn a year cut in tax relief in his first budget.

amp.theguardian.com

I do agree that MPs should’ve sacrificed theirs first to lead the way though

I read a suggestion recently that public sector and nurses in particular should be able to flex their emp’ers contributions a bit over an agreed period to free up a higher basic wage. Most need the cash now so this makes sense

So your plan to help the serious problem recruiting and retaining people in core public services is…slash the pension?

 

[CCFCSteve]

So your plan to help the serious problem recruiting and retaining people in core public services is…slash the pension?

No, I was responding to the point that it was Tories austerity that ended FSPs, it wasn’t. It was successive governments but triggered by browns changes to pensions rules.

My point was that some people might need to use some of their Employer pension contributions now, in which case why not be able to flex them to provide a higher basic wage during certain periods ?

 

[stupot07]

Iirc they started to talk about changing final salary to career average under the last Labour government

They did.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, I was responding to the point that it was Tories austerity that ended FSPs, it wasn’t. It was successive governments but triggered by browns changes to pensions rules.

My point was that some people might need to use some of their Employer pension contributions now, in which case why not be able to flex them to provide a higher basic wage during certain periods ?

Encouraging people to sacrifice some of their pension because we insist on not paying them properly isn’t a great idea.

 

[skybluetony176]

All I know is that when my wife started work as a civil servant almost 25 years ago she was getting a 26% contribution. Between her job being moved around different areas of the civil service, then being contracted out to different private companies because she went part time when we did the greatest service to the country in supplying our replacements to society having now “chosen” to go back full time now our replacements are older to help with the effects of the cost of living on our household she has had to sign a new contract so her new pension contribution is now up to 9%. Her dept is currently running with less than half the staff they need as they can’t attract new employees with the pay they’re offering before you even get into terms and conditions, it a highly qualified job requiring a specific degree (or recognised equivalent) in the field and any potential new employees could literally go and drive a forklift for more money. Oh. And she hasn’t had a pay rise in ten years because she’s on the highest pay grade for her job.

Why the fuck would anyone now choose to enter into working in the public sector.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Time to play Guess Tony's Wife's Job

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

All I know is that when my wife started work as a civil servant almost 25 years ago she was getting a 26% contribution. Between her job being moved around different areas of the civil service, then being contracted out to different private companies because she went part time when we did the greatest service to the country in supplying our replacements to society having now “chosen” to go back full time now our replacements are older to help with the effects of the cost of living on our household she has had to sign a new contract so her new pension contribution is now up to 9%. Her dept is currently running with less than half the staff they need as they can’t attract new employees with the pay they’re offering before you even get into terms and conditions, it a highly qualified job requiring a specific degree (or recognised equivalent) in the field and any potential new employees could literally go and drive a forklift for more money. Oh. And she hasn’t had a pay rise in ten years because she’s on the highest pay grade for her job.

Why the fuck would anyone now choose to enter into working in the public sector.

I have been applying for quite a lot of civil service jobs. Only got two interviews and everything I’ve applied for would be a £10-15k wage drop.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just to add I would be of the opinion that traditionally the appeal of working in the public sector was the pension. Their pension has been attacked for decades and it hasn’t reflected in increased wages, especially true of the last 13 years.