USSR invades Ukraine. (29 Viewers)

[Kieranp96]

If most people agree that Putin isn't going to use nukes either way, just air bomb his garbage army and get it done

I wish , even sending NATO troops there but there is a risk that crazy bastard will use nukes so I can see why they don’t want to get boots on the ground.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I wish , even sending NATO troops there but there is a risk that crazy bastard will use nukes so I can see why they don’t want to get boots on the ground.

I'm saying give them planes

 

[shmmeee]

Would take months to train pilots tho. Though I suppose you do what you can for those months and wait until air support arrives.

Frankly I’d go in and slap them about. No way Putin uses nukes. He’d be even more of a pariah on the world stage and that even if the chain of command follows orders.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Th

If most people agree that Putin isn't going to use nukes either way, just air bomb his garbage army and get it done

The stakes are pretty high though to take that risk. And what most people think is quite often wrong. How else can Brexit or Trump happen?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Th

The stakes are pretty high though to take that risk. And what most people think is quite often wrong. How else can Brexit or Trump happen?

The stakes are pretty high if we leave a country of that size to its fate. Putin then knows all he has to do is just threaten a nuke and he can invade where he wants.

Georgia and Moldova would be next.

 

[shmmeee]

The stakes are pretty high if we leave a country of that size to its fate. Putin then knows all he has to do is just threaten a nuke and he can invade where he wants.

Georgia and Moldova would be next.

It’s handing him massive amounts of power as well. Oil and grain alone would make him ridiculously powerful.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s handing him massive amounts of power as well. Oil and grain alone would make him ridiculously powerful.

If it's going to take time for pilots to be trained, that needs to start now. In the meantime we need to arm them to the teeth until the air superiority can decide the balance.

 

[Sick Boy]

This has the potential to go on for years yet, IMO.

 

[Kieranp96]

Would take months to train pilots tho. Though I suppose you do what you can for those months and wait until air support arrives.

Frankly I’d go in and slap them about. No way Putin uses nukes. He’d be even more of a pariah on the world stage and that even if the chain of command follows orders.

They have already been trained on f16’s they were trained in America last year.

My mistake it was a-10’a they had a few trained on.

Ukrainian Pilots Already Training For A-10s

Congress hasn’t formally offered them and the Ukrainian brass says it doesn’t want them but a Ukrainian unit, with help from some retired USAF Warthog pilots, has been secretly training...

www.avweb.com

 

[tisza]

Th

The stakes are pretty high though to take that risk. And what most people think is quite often wrong. How else can Brexit or Trump happen?

Use of nuclear weapons would alienate China and India and others that have not taken an anti-Russian stance. Would also create internal dissension as couldn't be hidden from Russian public.

 

[tisza]

The stakes are pretty high if we leave a country of that size to its fate. Putin then knows all he has to do is just threaten a nuke and he can invade where he wants.

Georgia and Moldova would be next.

It really is as simple as that.
It's not restricted to Russia. If the nuclear threat is successful then the Korean peninsula becomes a potential issue, multiple dubious Chinese territorial claims become an issue.

Plus Putin still insists that the end game is the restoration of Russian control over the whole former Soviet empire - which does include NATO members. A push to connect Kalingrad to Russia still an objective.
Any concessions on Ukraine will strengthen Putin's position in Russia and establish a strategy for future expansion.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It really is as simple as that.
It's not restricted to Russia. If the nuclear threat is successful then the Korean peninsula becomes a potential issue, multiple dubious Chinese territorial claims become an issue.

Plus Putin still insists that the end game is the restoration of Russian control over the whole former Soviet empire - which does include NATO members. A push to connect Kalingrad to Russia still an objective.
Any concessions on Ukraine will strengthen Putin's position in Russia and establish a strategy for future expansion.

Moldova and Georgia both have pro-Russia separatist movements and if Ukraine falls they definitely will too. If the predictions are correct and this war without more forceful Western intervention will take years yet, how many lives are we really saving?

 

[Flying Fokker]

 

[Flying Fokker]

Not sure it makes that bigger difference. Russian public been told the whole time that they're are at war with NATO; that NATO do have boots on the ground in Ukraine etc.
The bigger threat of a disproportionate reaction was Ukraine committing attacks inside Russia - which they done. The response to that has been the intensified bombings but no increase in the nuclear threat.
German-made tanks ever cross into Russian territory (Inc Crimea) then could ratchet up Russian public opinion.

Just a couple of snippets I read recently.

Crimea was Given to Ukraine in the 1950’s. USSR transfer of control because of famine, failed crops etc.

The war is complex and Putin trying to right the failure of previous presidents? Ukraine people have been presidents of the USSR, some of them pro Ukraine and others quite prepared to see millions starve.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Would take months to train pilots tho. Though I suppose you do what you can for those months and wait until air support arrives.

Frankly I’d go in and slap them about. No way Putin uses nukes. He’d be even more of a pariah on the world stage and that even if the chain of command follows orders.

There is a lot of hot air coming from Kremlin Media, many of whom say that if they are to lose, then why would they not press the button. Others say that Russia has enough conventional weaponry to wipe the UA off the map.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Moldova and Georgia both have pro-Russia separatist movements and if Ukraine falls they definitely will too. If the predictions are correct and this war without more forceful Western intervention will take years yet, how many lives are we really saving?

I think that it could be many more losses than Ukraine’s pro independence people. The former states of USSR, further North and West becomes more vulnerable.

 

[tisza]

Just a couple of snippets I read recently.

Crimea was Given to Ukraine in the 1950’s. USSR transfer of control because of famine, failed crops etc.

The war is complex and Putin trying to right the failure of previous presidents? Ukraine people have been presidents of the USSR, some of them pro Ukraine and others quite prepared to see millions starve.

Crimea certainly a complicated history. Was Russian through conquest. The transfer to Ukraine in the 1950s so the assumption was Soviet Union would never fail and that Crimea would always be a part of it.
Putin's reading of history and politics made very much through rose-tinted glasses." All the former parts of Soviet empire love the motherland really and should come home"etc.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Crimea certainly a complicated history. Was Russian through conquest. The transfer to Ukraine in the 1950s so the assumption was Soviet Union would never fail and that Crimea would always be a part of it.
Putin's reading of history and politics made very much through rose-tinted glasses." All the former parts of Soviet empire love the motherland really and should come home"etc.

Yes, in the early 90's, every region in Ukraine voted for independence. Even Donbas (High number of ethnic Russians) voted for independence. Ref Crimea, the USSR was only too pleased to hand it over to Ukraine because they had no resource/ idea or inclination to try and fix the problems there.

I wonder how many ethnic Russians live there? (I guess Russia would say all of them?) It was 70%. Tatars 1.5% and most of the rest were Ukrainian. Which makes for an interesting scenario over the next couple of years. Russia have had enough time to 'dig in'.

Independence Vote 1991

Results
Choice Votes % Yes 1,343,855 94.30% No 81,254 5.70% Valid votes 1,425,109 98.74% Invalid or blank votes 18,151 1.26% Total votes 1,443,260 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 1,770,841 81.5%

 

[tisza]

Yes, in the early 90's, every region in Ukraine voted for independence. Even Donbas (High number of ethnic Russians) voted for independence. Ref Crimea, the USSR was only too pleased to hand it over to Ukraine because they had no resource/ idea or inclination to try and fix the problems there.

I wonder how many ethnic Russians live there? (I guess Russia would say all of them?) It was 70%. Tatars 1.5% and most of the rest were Ukrainian. Which makes for an interesting scenario over the next couple of years. Russia have had enough time to 'dig in'.

Independence Vote 1991

Results
Choice Votes % Yes 1,343,855 94.30% No 81,254 5.70% Valid votes 1,425,109 98.74% Invalid or blank votes 18,151 1.26% Total votes 1,443,260 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 1,770,841 81.5%

At the time Ukrainians were the main ethnic group in Donbas and Luhansk. The shift towards a larger Russian % came after the build up to the conflict that started in 2014 and Ukrainians were those that fled.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Get the badge in

Oleksandr Usyk: ‘There had been laughter in that gym. When I got there, only darkness and death’

As the first anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine approaches, the world heavyweight champion tells Donald McRae about the devastation of war and searching for signs of hope

www.theguardian.com

 

[fernandopartridge]

Linked to this war, has anybody been watching the BBC multi part documentary on the fall of the USSR?

 

[Nuskyblue]

Linked to this war, has anybody been watching the BBC multi part documentary on the fall of the USSR?

Less documentary more random post soviet footage. Interesting tho.

The guy who implemented the shock therapy sure sounds like a stooge for the US. The whole thing is so bent.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Last week there was a bit on gangland killings in the lada factory over stealing the cars from the factory.
This week they are handing out vouchers to people to buy shares in ex state owned companies. I wonder how many ended up with the ex chelsea owner?

 

[Nuskyblue]

Last week there was a bit on gangland killings in the lada factory over stealing the cars from the factory.
This week they are handing out vouchers to people to buy shares in ex state owned companies. I wonder how many ended up with the ex chelsea owner?

A lot if the Bolshavik Biscuits factory buy out is anything to go buy.

£80,000,000 operation for less than half a Million.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Less documentary more random post soviet footage. Interesting tho.

The guy who implemented the shock therapy sure sounds like a stooge for the US. The whole thing is so bent.

It is a documentary in the sense that it is a lot of pulled together evidence. US shock therapy delivering once again. With friends like these who needs enemies?

 

[Nuskyblue]

It is a documentary in the sense that it is a lot of pulled together evidence. US shock therapy delivering once again. With friends like these who needs enemies?

Yea I get that. I must admit I was so captivated by all the Russianess of the fottage that I failed to register the text giving the images context

 

[Flying Fokker]

Brave reporter. Volume Up

 

[Flying Fokker]

Someone’s take on what‘s next. Suggestion that Crimea is the goal. Nothing new there…but the method of defeating Russia is something I did not really think about.

 

[tisza]

Someone’s take on what‘s next. Suggestion that Crimea is the goal. Nothing new there…but the method of defeating Russia is something I did not really think about.

His takes on Russia/ukraine and other issues like China are always interesting.
The Crimea water point was one raised by Russia early on - calling it a potential attack on civilian populations but now seems redundant considering their own attacks on urban populations & energy infrastructure.
Those "scooby doo" trucks I've been in many times - they are literally 1950s - extremely basic, slowand uncomfortable. But this issue was raised when we saw those massive train "convoys" shipping in transport vehicles near the beginning ofthe conflict. Loaded with all sorts of basic people/goods carriers like IFA trucks, Lada Niva 4*4s, old buses etc.
Hadn't realized quite how many Ukrainians were in NATO countries being trained on modern systems. That's quite a force to put back into the warzone

 

[Flying Fokker]

Hhhhhh

His takes on Russia/ukraine and other issues like China are always interesting.
The Crimea water point was one raised by Russia early on - calling it a potential attack on civilian populations but now seems redundant considering their own attacks on urban populations & energy infrastructure.
Those "scooby doo" trucks I've been in many times - they are literally 1950s - extremely basic, slowand uncomfortable. But this issue was raised when we saw those massive train "convoys" shipping in transport vehicles near the beginning ofthe conflict. Loaded with all sorts of basic people/goods carriers like IFA trucks, Lada Niva 4*4s, old buses etc.
Hadn't realized quite how many Ukrainians were in NATO countries being trained on modern systems. That's quite a force to put back into the warzone

The number training seems high. Here’s hoping the planes cover things until then. Also that the Russian canon fodder is stopped from advancing.

Does anyone think this is difficult to call given that Putin is likely to go soon? Maybe even the next big cold spell?

 

[tisza]

Hhhhhh

The number training seems high. Here’s hoping the planes cover things until then. Also that the Russian canon fodder is stopped from advancing.

Does anyone think this is difficult to call given that Putin is likely to go soon? Maybe even the next big cold spell?

Interesting phase.
Transparent what Russian intentions are but Ukrainian military leadership has been adept at handling things previously.
Still a game changer if Ukraine can break through in the South and threaten both supply lines in and out Crimea (coastal rotes and the Kerch bridge)
Throwing mass numbers at it seems to be Russian plan but would almost seem a desperate measure.
Even if everything hasn't arrived yet Ukrainian forces much better kitted out than they were 12 months ago.( With Russian kit as well as western)

 

[skybluetony176]

Why aren’t our press asking questions like this

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

We have to do whatever we can to help Ukraine to win this war.
If we don't then Ukraine will ultimately lose and in the long run the whole of eastern Europe is in danger of Soviet invasion and ultimately World War 3 after that. Ignoring that fact is simply sweeping it under the carpet and inviting the inevitable.
The consequences of inaction are not worth thinking about.

 

[dutchman]

This is where some idiot in the forum tells me Elon Musk is working for Vladimir Putin:

 

[shmmeee]

This is where some idiot in the forum tells me Elon Musk is working for Vladimir Putin:

I mean in the broadest sense, probably. He buys a lot of the propaganda wholesale and is a stupid vain rich man which is the type Putin can play like a fiddle.