USSR invades Ukraine. (65 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

I did Irish history in my a level history course but

I did it GCSE too. Can't say what it's like for the current generation mind you!

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well if you think Mr Putin is going to retreat day sorry and give up that seems far more fanciful to me

There is also the notion that if Putin goes some cuddly Gorbachev figure will turn up. Given he is less popular in Russia than Liz Truss here that’s not happening either. In fact Labarov and the old guard are properly itching to go down in a blaze of glory - literally

Is the fact they're psychotic really a good reason to cede things to them? Give people that are totally crazy whatever they want to try and placate them, even though every time that's been done in history it hasn't worked.

Go down that road and the world will be an even worse place than it already is, and that's saying something. Give in to everyone like that and it emboldens others and eventually all you're left with is warlords constantly trying to gain more territory and using ordinary people as cannon fodder to try and achieve (and inevitably fail) their warped thirst for power. There would be no rights, just the constant working towards the desires of a maniac dressed up as being what is best for the country.

I'm always glad that you're not in charge of anything important, but I'm REALLY glad you're not in charge of our policy on Russia.

 

[Grendel]

Is the fact they're psychotic really a good reason to cede things to them? Give people that are totally crazy whatever they want to try and placate them, even though every time that's been done in history it hasn't worked.

Go down that road and the world will be an even worse place than it already is, and that's saying something. Give in to everyone like that and it emboldens others and eventually all you're left with is warlords constantly trying to gain more territory and using ordinary people as cannon fodder to try and achieve (and inevitably fail) their warped thirst for power. There would be no rights, just the constant working towards the desires of a maniac dressed up as being what is best for the country.

I'm always glad that you're not in charge of anything important, but I'm REALLY glad you're not in charge of our policy on Russia.

 

[fernandopartridge]

In the sense of providing weapons and ammunition to enable Ukraine to defend itself.

I'm trying to understand your point of view, but it's hard to gauge your argument from the odd pithy remark. Why not explain where you're coming from?

From my point of view it just looks like domestic politicians e.g. Johnson, Truss and Starmer doing what they think is most popular, it doesn't feel like something that is made with any genuine view to getting this situation resolved any time soon. I think it's fanciful that all it needs is more war to end war.

 

[Grendel]

From my point of view it just looks like domestic politicians e.g. Johnson, Truss and Starmer doing what they think is most popular, it doesn't feel like something that is made with any genuine view to getting this situation resolved any time soon. I think it's fanciful that all it needs is more war to end war.

The general view on here seems to be that Putin can be shoved back into Russia with his tail between his legs and he will just look a bit embarrassed and it will never be talked about again.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The general view on here seems to be that Putin can be shoved back into Russia with his tail between his legs and he will just look a bit embarrassed and it will never be talked about again.

Sounds good

 

[Grendel]

Sounds good

It sounds - and is - ridiculous

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

The general view on here seems to be that Putin can be shoved back into Russia with his tail between his legs and he will just look a bit embarrassed and it will never be talked about again.

Almost the dream scenario except you’ve missed the bit where he mysteriously falls from a 4th floor window 2 weeks later.

 

[shmmeee]

It feels like a fanciful idea that a few fighter jets wins the war and that's that. Where are they going?

You are learning young padawan.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It sounds - and is - ridiculous

You forget that Ukraine already was strongly encouraged by the West to allow Crimea to be annexed in 2014. Putin doesn’t think that’s a big enough concession.

So if they give him another big chunk of territory, Russia will just come back for more later while Ukraine gets carved up.

 

[shmmeee]

The general view on here seems to be that Putin can be shoved back into Russia with his tail between his legs and he will just look a bit embarrassed and it will never be talked about again.

And your view seems to be that without outside support Ukrainians will just doen arms and start dancing hand in hand with Russians, rather than a massively prolonged and bloody war. Which also happens to embolden Russia on the global stage.

Absolute fruitcake. Total coincidence of course this side is coming from those that like to get their media from fringe sources that are well documented to take Russian cash.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Almost the dream scenario except you’ve missed the bit where he mysteriously falls from a 4th floor window 2 weeks later.

The falling from the window may have to come first on this occasion, I hope they are clearing the bodies away after the others have been falling as he may only drop a couple of inches before hitting a body.

 

[Grendel]

And your view seems to be that without outside support Ukrainians will just doen arms and start dancing hand in hand with Russians, rather than a massively prolonged and bloody war. Which also happens to embolden Russia on the global stage.

Absolute fruitcake. Total coincidence of course this side is coming from those that like to get their media from fringe sources that are well documented to take Russian cash.

So you forsee a situation where Russia will at some point surrender and disappear from Ukraine forever do you?

 

[PVA]

So you forsee a situation where Russia will at some point surrender and disappear from Ukraine forever do you?

Why not?

We're 365 days into their 3 day war.

They're literally going backwards.

They won't 'surrender' because Putin wouldn't be able to admit it to his people. But some sort of 'tactical withdrawal' after their 'objectives have been completed' or some shit, like they did in Kyiv.

 

[Grendel]

Why not?

We're 365 days into their 3 day war.

They're literally going backwards.

They won't 'surrender' because Putin wouldn't be able to admit it to his people. But some sort of 'tactical withdrawal' after their 'objectives have been completed' or some shit, like they did in Kyiv.

You'd be the type of person who mocked Lord Grey and his lights out speech

The notion this will end in a surrender is deranged.

 

[PVA]

You'd be the type of person who mocked Lord Grey and his lights out speech

The notion this will end in a surrender is deranged.

Yet not as deranged as demanding the Ukranians put down their weapons.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You'd be the type of person who mocked Lord Grey and his lights out speech

The notion this will end in a surrender is deranged.

It will end either with Ukraine giving up territory or Russia pissing off. The former will undermine its status as a country and not reduce the chances of future invasion.

 

[Grendel]

Yet not as deranged as demanding the Ukranians put down their weapons.

im not saying they should - it should just be their weapons and this is not something requiring our intervention

 

[duffer]

From my point of view it just looks like domestic politicians e.g. Johnson, Truss and Starmer doing what they think is most popular, it doesn't feel like something that is made with any genuine view to getting this situation resolved any time soon. I think it's fanciful that all it needs is more war to end war.

I'm not for a moment saying that there isn't a large element of playing to the gallery for the politicians involved, especially Johnson.

However, isn't it also fairly obvious that without western support, Russia takes a sovereign, democratic, European state, by force. Is that acceptable to you?

 

[Grendel]

I'm not for a moment saying that there isn't a large element of playing to the gallery for the politicians involved, especially Johnson.

However, isn't it also fairly obvious that without western support, Russia takes a sovereign, democratic, European, state, by force. Is that acceptable to you?

It’s not entirely democratic is it?

 

[PVA]

It’s not entirely democratic is it?

Oh that's alright then, crack on Vlad

 

[Grendel]

Oh that's alright then, crack on Vlad

Do you think we should have intervened in Cyprus?

 

[PVA]

Deflect deflect deflect

 

[Grendel]

Deflect deflect deflect

How out of interest is that deflecting?

 

[fernandopartridge]

However, isn't it also fairly obvious that without western support, Russia takes a sovereign, democratic, European state, by force. Is that acceptable to you?

Not according to some on here - Russia on the back foot already according to PVA?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not according to some on here - Russia on the back foot already according to PVA?

We’ve been arming them for most of the conflict haven’t we?

 

[Grendel]

Not according to some on here - Russia on the back foot already according to PVA?

He’s the SBT war correspondent - a huge military expert who clearly has huge knowledge of European conflicts through history. He’s up there in intellect with our property expert.

 

[Grendel]

Deflect deflect deflect

Also if it is a deflection I assume @Sick Boy was deflecting as well?

From what exactly?

A question you are incapable of answering?

 

[PVA]

He’s the SBT war correspondent - a huge military expert who clearly has huge knowledge of European conflicts through history. He’s up there in intellect with our property expert.

Well you certainly aren't the SBT war correspondent. How is the Russian occupation of Kyiv going?

 

[PVA]

Not according to some on here - Russia on the back foot already according to PVA?

They've been on the backfoot since about April last year, that's pretty obvious to anyone following it.

And I don't think anyone has said that without western support Ukraine would be just fine.

 

[David O'Day]

Also if it is a deflection I assume @Sick Boy was deflecting as well?

From what exactly?

A question you are incapable of answering?

You doing the pretending people aren't answering your questions or are you so pissed you have forgotten you have tried that line on another topic already?

 

[Grendel]

You doing the pretending people aren't answering your questions or are you so pissed you have forgotten you have tried that line on another topic already?

David you look absolutely ridiculous - you are angry. Go and get Gerry to give you a massage.

 

[Grendel]

They've been on the backfoot since about April last year, that's pretty obvious to anyone following it.

And I don't think anyone has said that without western support Ukraine would be just fine.

When’s it ending and Russia surrender?

 

[David O'Day]

David you look absolutely ridiculous - you are angry. Go and get Gerry to give you a massage.

I'm far from angry, more amused at you trying to debate when clearly pissed

 

[PVA]

When’s it ending and Russia surrender?

Not sure why they would surrender when they occupy Kyiv