shmmeee
Well-Known Member
If you mean the appointment technically: civil service expertise will be useful for any new government wanting to get things done.
If you mean the story politically: gets people talking about PartyGate again
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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If you mean the appointment technically: civil service expertise will be useful for any new government wanting to get things done.
If you mean the story politically: gets people talking about PartyGate again
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Don't mean the former, no. I meant the latter. Talking about partygate again to what end?
I disagree. People are still very angry at Johnson et al breaking the very rules they set.
Whether the rules were absurd or not is a separate argument - but people abiding by those rules and not being able to say goodbye to or attend funerals of loved ones while the government ignored the rules is not something that will be forgotten easily. And this is something that very much sticks to the Conservatives as a whole, not just Johnson.
Distracts from Sunak's Brexit win and gets people talking about something which reflects incredibly negatively on the Tories.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I’m struggling to see how it can do them any harm. It sets a stage of the ingrained mentality of the Tories. If anything I would think that Starmer is disappointed with the reaction from camp Boris, I bet he expected more to jump on the “it was a set up” bandwagon. Boris on the other hand is probably worried that there wasn’t more. Dan Hodges and Harry Cole are giving it a good go at stirring the pot but even the right wing press is largely not going down that road. The more real journalists trawl through the Privileges committee report just released and report on it the more ridiculous the Mail and Sun reporters look. Maybe it’s about more than the Tories, maybe it’s about Boris and his backers in parliament and the press. They’re looking very desperate and panicked at the moment throwing any old shit out hoping it sticks to try and dig Boris out of the hole he dug himself into.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Reminds people of something that was pretty universally disliked by voters. I don’t think that’s why she’s been hired. Probably just the right person frontje job. But there’s no good for the Tories that comes from basically asking for a new investigation and bringing the story back up. It’s an attempt to launder Johnson so he can come back, but to the average voter it’ll just have a negative impact and any new investigation is likely to harm Johnson and the Tories more than help them.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
But they won't get a new investigation, what they will have is people doubt the results of said investigation, whereas without hiring her it was an open goal because, as you say, people weren't happy with it (and it might even implicate Sunak in some way too of course).
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I don’t think they’ll be more people doubting the results. You’ll just get the same people more entrenched in their conspiracy theories that it was already a set up, Boris did nothing wrong, it doesn’t matter anyway etc.
Yeah the only people kicking up a fuss now are the same people crying about it at the time - Dorries, Rees-Mogg and co, plus all the right wing journos.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
And just for Steve this from his favourite radio presenter
Whatever you think of James O’Brien on this occasion he’s 100% bang on.
Whatever you think of James O’Brien on this occasion he’s 100% bang on.
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Deleted member 9744
Guest
But Starmer is as dishonest as Johnson don't you know?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I don’t thunk anyone but Johnson loyalists would think that. See the R4 interview, it’s more likely to bring up questions like “well what bit are you claiming isn’t true?” Which they don’t have an answer for.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
There's a fair few though, and you need enough to not be turned off Tory to make it harder for Labour.
After all, there's always going to be people who think Labour can do no wrong (PVA
) through to those who think the Tories can do no wrong (Rob!). In between you need to fight for the votes, and currently Tories are in the position of reclaiming those who don't really like lefties, dont like corruption, and would love to have anything wafted in front of them that looks like a lefty conspiracy, and that the Tories weren't *that* sleazy during Covid after all.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Great to have the public talking about whether some lockdown rules were broken though rather than how the decline in everybody's standard of living might be addressed, love it
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yep don’t think Sunak will be too upset about this
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
This is a storm in a teacup. Come the end of the month it’ll be done with. I don’t think it’ll have any traction in parliament, Sunak wants to pat himself on the back for the Windsor agreement and Starmer will want to talk about the cost of living, the NHS crisis etc. at PMQ’s as ultimately that’s what he’ll fight the next GE on. No one will be fighting the next GE on partygate and what job Sue Gray has got.
You think he'd rather be talking about Partygate than his Brexit deal?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Sunak and friends are doing a great job of highlighting the lunacy of Brexit by pointing out that NI having access to both markets is apparently an incredible advantage
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He’s moved on from that now
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
That's the concern isn't it. 'They're all as bad as each other'.
I mean the top headline on the BBC is:
Johnson may have misled Parliament over parties, say MPs
But yeah if you say so.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Even leavers in the QT Sunderland audience last night were asking why we can’t all have it. One point made that did seem very valid is why Scotland couldn’t have it. After all, like NI and unlike Wales and England they voted remain. Yeah I know the GFA but take that out of it it’s still has valid reasoning. Might just kill the SNP off as a force in Scottish politics also.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The screams of stitch up looking more and more ridiculous by the minute
Haha, thanks Tony ! Love a bit of onscreen JOB (it’s that smug punchable face of his
) I actually heard some of his show earlier…I do most days.I don’t agree with a lot of what he says but there’s still some interesting stuff on the show. I struggle to argue with him on this though and it’s bizarre that there’s these convoluted attempts/arguments to suggest Johnson has somehow been hard done by.
The timing of Grays appointment is strange though and can’t quite work out whether it will ultimately be good or bad for Labour in terms of public perception. Only a minor issue either way. Sunaks obviously trying to distance himself from the past so I’m not sure the return of partygate will damage him too much* although it obviously reflects badly on Tories. I’m sure I heard on LBC that it was only after Sunak became PM that unredacted docs were released to inquiry. Ultimately Partygate makes it harder for Johnson to make a come back in future, which helps Sunak…probably one of the reasons he released the docs !
*even if his did get a FPN
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
How can it even be possible that people can redact documents for an independent investigation into the government?!?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Yeah I think you’re right. Sunak will be as pleased as anyone with the events of the last 24 hours. Watching this if Sunak did provide those documents as you suggest it’s clear he wants to kill off the legacy of Boris as much as Starmer. Watching this certainly makes sense of what you sayHaha, thanks Tony ! Love a bit of onscreen JOB (it’s that smug punchable face of his
I don’t agree with a lot of what he says but there’s still some interesting stuff on the show. I struggle to argue with him on this though and it’s bizarre that there’s these convoluted attempts/arguments to suggest Johnson has somehow been hard done by.
The timing of Grays appointment is strange though and can’t quite work out whether it will ultimately be good or bad for Labour in terms of public perception. Only a minor issue either way. Sunaks obviously trying to distance himself from the past so I’m not sure the return of partygate will damage him too much* although it obviously reflects badly on Tories. I’m sure I heard on LBC that it was only after Sunak became PM that unredacted docs were released to inquiry. Ultimately Partygate makes it harder for Johnson to make a come back in future, which helps Sunak…probably one of the reasons he released the docs !
*even if his did get a FPN
Crazy I know ! If I heard correctly Johnson apparently tried to provide documents that were so heavily redacted that they were useless/didn’t make sense
edit - don’t quote me but sure I heard that they asked for docs in April, they were eventually provided in heavily redacted format in June/July and it wasn’t until Nov when Sunak provided proper versions
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
tbf if Johnson was involved, they didn't have to be redacted to make no sense.
Scotland doesn’t have a land border with the EU and as you know, NI are a special case due to GFA. The reason why it’s such a great deal for NI is they have access to single market without having to pay into the pot, without FOM requirement and have a break on new EU rules
I might be wrong but I presume Sunak can’t labour these points in public as it might piss off some EU members. Basically NIs position is unique and better than other EU members
If EU offered that deal to the U.K. I’d imagine we’d snap their hands off (ERG nutters/DUP aside
)
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Glad that you're beginning to see sense!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Scotland doesn’t have a land border with the EU and as you know, NI are a special case due to GFA. The reason why it’s such a great deal for NI is they have access to single market without having to pay into the pot, without FOM requirement and have a break on new EU rules
I might be wrong but I presume Sunak can’t labour these points in public as it might piss off some EU members. Basically NIs position is unique and better than other EU members
If EU offered that deal to the U.K. I’d imagine we’d snap their hands off (ERG nutters/DUP aside
You better tell the DUP that NI is a special case, they insist there must be no divergence from the UK, (except in the dozens of instances when it suits them).