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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
We’ll never be as productive as we could be simply because it’s a moving target. It’s an unachievable goal. So it’s a misnomer.

You’re adding your own context. I never once inferred that people would rather not work, I was talking in specifics of furlough when I said no one wanted to do it. The fact is people have a choice in this country when it comes to work including unskilled manual labour jobs and the fact is people would rather a permanent job in a warm warehouse packing boxes than they would doing seasonal work in fields in all weathers. You can’t blame people for that.
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I don’t blame people at all, they can work where they want but you suggested Brits don’t want to work in things like picking and hospitality. My point is if they are able to and we can structure pay and benefits right maybe they should.

By importing large amounts cheap labour we seem to have bred a culture of minimal investment, poor working conditions, lower wages and people thinking certain jobs are beneath them. All of those things need addressing by a government with the imagination and political will to do so, I’m just not confident any party will.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Project fear in it

www.bbc.co.uk

Vauxhall-maker warns Brexit may force it to close UK factory

Vauxhall-maker Stellantis is calling on the government to renegotiate some Brexit rules or risk losing electric
www.bbc.co.uk
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Just a very shit negotiated deal and an anti business investment culture which sees no significant government support in key future technologies and industries like gigafactories

Basically nobody seems to have a plan or vision as to what the U.K. will be or wants to be in future
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't have much to argue with the last two paragraphs, but who's brave enough to pay for the support? You know when it comes to that 700k certain factions will weaponise that too.

And of course that support and raising if be wages should be there regardless of immigration policy too.
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My point is that if you have an influx of cheap Labour willing to accept lower wages and poorer conditions, where’s the incentive for the employer to invest more in machinery, equipment and/or people.

When there was the hauliers shortage last year all I heard on the radio was driver after driver saying they were treated like mugs, no toilet/wash room facilities and made to wait for hours on end by supermarkets etc. that’s why so many sacked off the job

Our answer has been, if you won’t do the job, let’s bring in people who will accept those things
 
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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Just a very shit negotiated deal and an anti business investment culture which sees no significant government support in key future technologies and industries like gigafactories

Basically nobody seems to have a plan or vision as to what the U.K. will be or wants to be in future
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The government (under May) did throw some grants to car manufacturers to keep them in the UK post brexit. Seem to recall Nissan getting a big grant and Luton being secured based on paint facilities. Obviously that was a different time and we were still in the we hold all the card because of German cars and French wine and cheese mentality. The government clearly hasn’t moved on from that time and are being blindsided because they’re being steered by the lunatic elements in their party. Basically the Tories are ruining nationalism for everyone.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
The government (under May) did throw some grants to car manufacturers to keep them in the UK post brexit. Seem to recall Nissan getting a big grant and Luton being secured based on paint facilities. Obviously that was a different time and we were still in the we hold all the card because of German cars and French wine and cheese mentality. The government clearly hasn’t moved on from that time and are being blindsided because they’re being steered by the lunatic elements in their party. Basically the Tories are ruining nationalism for everyone.
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Agree. There’s no long term strategy/vision. Hoping Sunak or starmer (or Davey 😊) comes up with something soon !
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
My point is that if you have an influx of cheap Labour willing to accept lower wages and poorer conditions, where’s the incentive for the employer to invest more in machinery, equipment and/or people.

When there was the hauliers shortage last year all I heard on the radio was driver after driver saying they were treated like mugs, no toilet/wash room facilities and made to wait for hours on end by supermarkets etc. that’s why so many sacked off the job

Our answer has been, if you won’t do the job, let’s bring in people who will accept those things
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The thing is people as you point out have a choice, which isn’t a bad thing for the population. If their choices mean we have to bring in foreign workers to fill the gaps that’s only a negative if you want it to be.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Agree. There’s no long term strategy/vision. Hoping Sunak or starmer (or Davey 😊) comes up with something soon !
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Starmer has reiterated this morning when posed with the question following the comments from Vauxhalls owners that there’s no going back into the EU but they will be looking to renegotiate elements of the Brexit deal. He didn’t specify what, when, how or where mind. Just said that Boris’ oven ready deal wasn’t even half baked.
 
jimmyhillsfanclub

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
Not project fear.....just another multi-national corporate getting its excuses in early....

All the manufacturers within the EU also face the same rules & quotas, which is why it will probably be re-negotiated.

Ofcourse, State investment in UK gigafactories would be great and would not be hampered at all by brexit...... but its clear the cunts in charge aren't gonna invest though.....lets see if nowhere-man Starmer comes up with a plan....
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Not project fear.....just another multi-national corporate getting its excuses in early....

All the manufacturers within the EU also face the same rules & quotas, which is why it will probably be re-negotiated.

Ofcourse, State investment in UK gigafactories would be great and would not be hampered at all by brexit...... but its clear the cunts in charge aren't gonna invest though.....lets see if nowhere-man Starmer comes up with a plan....
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Stalantis is just flexing its muscles. It’s ironic how people defend corporate global dominance when it suits their argument
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Stalantis is just flexing its muscles. It’s ironic how people defend corporate global dominance when it suits their argument
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No more ironic than people using it to justify brexit. Remember, the EU were going to crumble as we held all the cards as corporate global dominant companies would insist that the EU bow to us as they want to sell cars here. Never happened did it. Not only that the situation we now find ourselves in proves what project fear stated all along. The corporate global dominant companies never once flexed their muscles during brexit negotiations. They are now and it’s not because we hold all the cards is it?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Not project fear.....just another multi-national corporate getting its excuses in early....

All the manufacturers within the EU also face the same rules & quotas, which is why it will probably be re-negotiated.

Ofcourse, State investment in UK gigafactories would be great and would not be hampered at all by brexit...... but its clear the cunts in charge aren't gonna invest though.....lets see if nowhere-man Starmer comes up with a plan....
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The EU is already heavily invested in GIGAfactories though. VW on its own has just started building 6, EU companies altogether are on course to deliver a further 25 by 2025, people investing in the EU also has access to the EIB for funding. We’re being left behind by the EU and yes the UK government isn’t stepping up in place of the EU but that’s only part of the issue. The truth is that brexit has made the UK less attractive and less viable for investment, not just the motor industry. The numbers are in and they don’t lie.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Dowdens debut at PMQs today. Didn’t even make it past the first question before avoiding answering what he was asked and going on about Corbyn instead
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Agree. There’s no long term strategy/vision. Hoping Sunak or starmer (or Davey 😊) comes up with something soon !
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I'm with you on almost all of this mate.

However I think the Tories do have a strategy: low taxation, deregulation, privatisation, reduced workers rights, shredded welfare state.

What worries me is the complete lack of a coherent alternative to this from the Labour party.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
More nazi sympathy in the Spectator. There's a very dangerous element in the tories gaining more and more traction.
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I love that the Tory right wing has now banded together under the "National Conservatives" banner. Or "NatC", in short.

Reminds me so much of that classic line in The Producers "Springtime for Hitler".

'Don't be stupid, be a smartie,
Come and join the NatC Party'

It would be funny if it wasn't so concerning.
We've got elected MPs talking about 'cultural marxism' (an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory), removing the right to protest/strike, and basically saying that the only good family is man+woman+many, many, children. Pretty much work will set you free, etc etc..

It would be completely laughable except that some of these people are dangerously close to the levers of power.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
I'm with you on almost all of this mate.

However I think the Tories do have a strategy: low taxation, deregulation, privatisation, reduced workers rights, shredded welfare state.

What worries me is the complete lack of a coherent alternative to this from the Labour party.
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Bless Steve, he still loves to believe the Conversatives are in government because they want Britain to be a better place
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
I'm with you on almost all of this mate.

However I think the Tories do have a strategy: low taxation, deregulation, privatisation, reduced workers rights, shredded welfare state.

What worries me is the complete lack of a coherent alternative to this from the Labour party.
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There’s no majority in the PCP for that manifesto TBH.

I think a focus on skills and energy is OK, along with negotiating sector deals on conditions. It’s not making me weep with joy but it’s OK and lightheaded ahead of whatever the Tories are doing.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Nah he’s absolutely right. Fuck the green belt and build sustainably wherever you are.
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I know you said sustainably but there are a lot of complex issues involving physical and mental health, flooding etc. in having large areas developed with a lack of green space. If we do start building on then a huge amount is going to have to be retained as green space unless we want to have a huge bill for all those problems.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I know you said sustainably but there are a lot of complex issues involving physical and mental health, flooding etc. in having large areas developed with a lack of green space. If we do start building on then a huge amount is going to have to be retained as green space unless we want to have a huge bill for all those problems.
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Green middle.

Make planning regs such that urban areas are healthy for both humans and nature. It’s perfectly possible. I get why people are worried about developers being let loose, but that’s already a problem everywhere that’s not green belt and GB massively distorts land values and isn’t based on anything like ecology or beauty. There’s no green belt outside England and those places haven’t been turned into car parks.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I seee the latest narrative been driven by the government and their client media is that sewage in the waterways is the publics fault for having the temerity to shit and piss.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I seee the latest narrative been driven by the government and their client media is that sewage in the waterways is the publics fault for having the temerity to shit and piss.
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Didn’t Hill have 10 shits the other day though ? The waterway systems is not set up to deal with that
 
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