Ashes 2023 (25 Viewers)

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Dhoni then withdrew the appeal

I disagreed with that at the time aswell - you play until the umpire confirms the ball is dead - assume it’s live until otherwise stated

 

---

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Have to add, I am always for fair play. Whichever team, theirs or ours. I don't even like the City shithousing to win a game.

I guess I am just old school like that.

Fair play between us and the Aussies went out the window in the 30s when we tried to kill their star batsman

 

[David O'Day]

I disagreed with that at the time aswell - you play until the umpire confirms the ball is dead - assume it’s live until otherwise stated

Ok, you want to win like a c**t.

Fairplay

 

[David O'Day]

The Dhoni one was worse as the fielder on the boundary acts like it's a four as well

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Ok, you want to win like a c**t.

Fairplay

Grow up mate - you play within the rules. Cricket has been rife with ways like this all the time. We won the ashes in 2005 by using mints to make the ball swing more. Don’t recall any English fans being disgusted at that

and like I said - Broad didn’t walk in 2013, despite the massive edge. The extra runs won us that test

 

[CCFCSteve]

I disagreed with that at the time aswell - you play until the umpire confirms the ball is dead - assume it’s live until otherwise stated

I agree with this in theory, I just don’t think it happens in practice. The argument would then be, should the umpire be handing back hat etc to bowler without calling over/ball dead which is what started to happen here apparently (not seen clip yet though)

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I agree with this in theory, I just don’t think it happens in practice. The argument would then be, should the umpire be handing back hat etc to bowler without calling over/ball dead which is what started to happen here apparently (not seen clip yet though)

Of course this wouldn’t have mattered had Bairstow grounded his bat

 

[CCFCSteve]

He’d used his foot and thought ball was dead. Fact is he just shouldn’t have left the crease

It’s done though, they won and shown how they want to play. Let’s hope we return the favour and play with some more ruthlessness in next match.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

That happens in club cricket on a Saturday it ends in a fight.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

That happens in club cricket on a Saturday it ends in a fight.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Happened in my game on Saturday. Our keeper was a little excitable. We called the lad back and withdrew the appeal.
Its not that hard to do is it?
Aussies show a real lack of class as usual.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Of course this wouldn’t have mattered had Bairstow grounded his bat

He made a point of putting his foot behind the line after the keeper had the ball in his hand. He clearly wasn't trying to take a run and It wasn't like he'd overbalanced whilst playing a shot or anything and left his ground accidently.
The square leg umpire should have called it not out in my opinion. Had he done so then the fact that Bairstow had grounded his foot would have justified the not out decision.

 

[Grendel]

He made a point of putting his foot behind the line after the keeper had the ball in his hand. He clearly wasn't trying to take a run and It wasn't like he'd overbalanced whilst playing a shot or anything and left his ground accidently.
The square leg umpire should have called it not out in my opinion. Had he done so then the fact that Bairstow had grounded his foot would have justified the not out decision.

its out he can’t say it’s not out

 

[Otis]

Fair play between us and the Aussies went out the window in the 30s when we tried to kill their star batsman

I saw a documentary about that. The Bodyline tour.

 

[Sick Boy]

Have to add, I am always for fair play. Whichever team, theirs or ours. I don't even like the City shithousing to win a game.

I guess I am just old school like that.

I don't see anything old school about it, personally - most other nations have the mindset of winning whatever the cost when it comes to sport.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

its out he can’t say it’s not out

Law - 20.1.1.1 it is finally settled in the hands of the wicket-keeper or of the bowler.
At that time Bairstow was in/had made his ground. Dead ball.

 

[tisza]

I don't see anything old school about it, personally - most other nations have the mindset of winning whatever the cost when it comes to sport.

It's a highly paid professional sport that needs to maintain income streams. As one of the Aussies said excitement comes from winning. Compare it to Rugby which has become far more cynical in the professional era in terms of gamesmanship.

 

[SkyBlueSoul]

Law - 20.1.1.1 it is finally settled in the hands of the wicket-keeper or of the bowler.
At that time Bairstow was in/had made his ground. Dead ball.

Few points later, you could argue the fielding side still regarded it as in play.

20.1.2 The ball shall be considered to be dead when it is clear to the bowler’s end umpire that the fielding side and both batters at the wicket have ceased to regard it as in play

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Few points later, you could argue the fielding side still regarded it as in play.

20.1.2 The ball shall be considered to be dead when it is clear to the bowler’s end umpire that the fielding side and both batters at the wicket have ceased to regard it as in play

Had Bairstow made any attempt to run ir take a run? No
Had he overbalanced leaving his crease ie whilst playing a shot? No
Therefore the passage of play for that ball was finished and the ball should be dead.
The umpires have got it wrong in my opinion.

 

[Otis]

I don't see anything old school about it, personally - most other nations have the mindset of winning whatever the cost when it comes to sport.

It's just the way I was brought up SB. To be honest.

I remember playing Sunday league and I was chasing a player down, who broke free and was trying to stop him having a shot from the edge of the box.

No-one else was up with play

He hit it and it appeared to go through the side netting and the ref gave a goal kick, but I saw it actually went in, so put my hand up and said it was a goal

We were already losing 4 nil at the time mind.

I just always like to see fairness and I still don't like the fact that we won the World Cup partly because of that contentious Geoff Hurst goal.

I hate professional fouls and still hate them just as much if a City player does it too.

Just the way I was brought up.

 

[Grendel]

Law - 20.1.1.1 it is finally settled in the hands of the wicket-keeper or of the bowler.
At that time Bairstow was in/had made his ground. Dead ball.

it wasn’t settled in his hands that’s the point he released it straight away

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Just the way I was brought up.

May I say you had a good upbringing with morals like that.Mine included being honest we were rich in love if not in wealth.

 

[SkyBlueSoul]

Had Bairstow made any attempt to run ir take a run? No
Had he overbalanced leaving his crease ie whilst playing a shot? No
Therefore the passage of play for that ball was finished and the ball should be dead.
The umpires have got it wrong in my opinion.

Still a relevant part of the law, can't just quote the first bit. I'd understand more if Carey had waited a few seconds then sneakily taken them off but he throws it straight away.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Just for those who don’t think Bairstow does it

 

[Grendel]

Do those old enough to remember think Gerry Daly should have told the referee Clive Allen scored when it was not given?

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Do those old enough to remember think Gerry Daly should have told the referee Clive Allen scored when it was not given?

Yes but not just Gerry Daly all of us at that end of the ground saw it.So a few more players saw it and showed no honesty.

 

[chiefdave]

I think the fact they've said they'd noticed Bairstow doing this earlier in his innings makes it worse for me. Goes from something that happened in the heat of battle to something pre-meditated. As with mankads it's the kind of thing you'd really expect a warning about first and then if he keeps doing it fair enough

But at the end of the day its 100% out and spirit of cricket is always going to be a subjective thing

Fired up England to win 3-2?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

At least it will liven the teams up they seem to play so often now the players are all pally.

 

[David O'Day]

I think the fact they've said they'd noticed Bairstow doing this earlier in his innings makes it worse for me. Goes from something that happened in the heat of battle to something pre-meditated. As with mankads it's the kind of thing you'd really expect a warning about first and then if he keeps doing it fair enough

But at the end of the day its 100% out and spirit of cricket is always going to be a subjective thing

Fired up England to win 3-2?

Bairstow has thrown at the stumps but at batsman who are still in the process of playing a shot

The issue is Bairstow had clearly thought the over was done and was not looking to gain any advantage

Football has these unwritten rules as well, would anyone be ok with a goal scored after the other team put the ball out for an injury? It's not against the laws but it's not on either.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Just for those who don’t think Bairstow does it

Again, a lot of this is nuance/subjective when making comparisons. From memory the Aussies were trying to stand outside their crease to negate swing/seam movement, in which case they’re open/fair game to potential run out as they’re trying to gain advantage. Bairstows was a belief ball was dead and he was not looking to gain any advantage

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Grenners example is pretty much spot on

Quoted for posterity!

 

[David O'Day]

Quoted for posterity!

I will accept when anyone has a point

 

[Grendel]

Yes but not just Gerry Daly all of us at that end of the ground saw it.So a few more players saw it and showed no honesty.

good!

 

[David O'Day]

Again, a lot of this is nuance/subjective when making comparisons. From memory the Aussies were trying to stand outside their crease to negate swing/seam movement, in which case they’re open/fair game to potential run out as they’re trying to gain advantage. Bairstows was a belief ball was dead and he was not looking to gain any advantage

This is the point

If the batsman is looking to gain an advantage then he is fair game

 

[chiefdave]

The issue is Bairstow had clearly thought the over was done and was not looking to gain any advantage

If you watch the umpire he clearly doesn't think the balls in play, he's handing a cap back

 

[David O'Day]

If you watch the umpire he clearly doesn't think the balls in play, he's handing a cap back

exactly and Bairstow probably see's that as that is the end he is looking at

 

[Otis]

Do those old enough to remember think Gerry Daly should have told the referee Clive Allen scored when it was not given?

Yes and we should have given Ireland back to the Irish too.