What’s it all about? (16 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The problem is it’s the school environment helps the behaviours and desire to self identity as a different gender

I’m assuming it’s still a tiny minority of students but one suspects a large percentage are not really looking at identity change at all

I would argue it does the opposite based on the high chance of bullying likely to be incurred from someone serious about changing gender identity.

 

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[SBT]

No, but if the headmaster goes all in and asks you to call the kid Richard Dawkins when their parents are t around you should refuse to get involved in the whole charade

Your comparison is a silly one, but anyway - I don’t think it’s sustainable for teachers to insist on “We know better and you’re making it up” when it comes to these things.

 

[shmmeee]

The problem is it’s the school environment helps the behaviours and desire to self identity as a different gender

I’m assuming it’s still a tiny minority of students but one suspects a large percentage are not really looking at identity change at all

Wut?

its mostly internet access not school TBH.

 

[shmmeee]

Your comparison is a silly one, but anyway - I don’t think it’s sustainable for teachers to insist on “We know better and you’re making it up” when it comes to these things.

It’s only silly because you say so. There’s as much logic behind saying you want to be called Richard Dawkins, or a tree or the opposite sex.

Love the idea teachers can’t tell kids they know what’s real and what’s not and must defer to students. Should make exams interesting!

 

[shmmeee]

Well that depends on if you see that as a problem.

Of course these people are young and impressionable and it can be a very confusing time in life. But at the same time allowing them to explore these while they're still not of an age to be able to make final decisions for themselves they can work out if it's just a phase or if it's a more permanent feeling.

It's like kids that are given a very strict upbringing often go over the top when they get the chance to make their own decisions.

And I don't think it's a bad thing to have kids looking at people being different - it makes them more likely to be empathetic and tolerant adults.

All the evidence shows social transition worsens dysphoria and makes it less likely to resolve.

Leaning into people delusions makes delusions worse shocker!

 

[Grendel]

Your comparison is a silly one, but anyway - I don’t think it’s sustainable for teachers to insist on “We know better and you’re making it up” when it comes to these things.

Im sure very few teachers would approach it like that but inevitable they will sometimes get pronouns mixed up. Calling someone “they” is ridiculous and I doubt I could do it

 

[clint van damme]

Your comparison is a silly one, but anyway - I don’t think it’s sustainable for teachers to insist on “We know better and you’re making it up” when it comes to these things.

It was a facetious remark.
But my point was its one thing a teacher keeping a secret a pupils told them in confidence, it's another to ask them to go along with a charade where they treat a child differently when their parents are around, they shouldn't be put in a position where they have to do that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Im sure very few teachers would approach it like that but inevitable they will sometimes get pronouns mixed up. Calling someone “they” is ridiculous and I doubt I could do it

If we make honest mistakes the student is usually understanding. Though if I said your second sentence out loud in the staff room I’d probably be in the Head’s office before the end of the day.

 

[Grendel]

If we make honest mistakes the student is usually understanding. Though if I said your second sentence out loud in the staff room I’d probably be in the Head’s office before the end of the day.

It’s nonsense - the student is understanding- how generous of them!

 

[SBT]

It’s only silly because you say so.

And because CVD himself said so, but nevermind

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s nonsense - the student is understanding- how generous of them!

You remind me of a colleague of mine who lost his job a few years ago

 

[Grendel]

You remind me of a colleague of mine who lost his job a few years ago

It’s still nonsense

 

[Nick]

Your comparison is a silly one, but anyway - I don’t think it’s sustainable for teachers to insist on “We know better and you’re making it up” when it comes to these things.

On the other hand, adults often know better when it comes to these things.

What next? Where does it end with kids dictating to teachers?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s still nonsense

I don’t pretend to understand it but in the interests of supporting a student through it what I think doesn’t matter. Particularly in the case of 6th formers.

It is difficult enough still coming out as gay in school never mind a different gender if it’s a genuinely held belief.

 

[SBT]

It was a facetious remark.
But my point was its one thing a teacher keeping a secret a pupils told them in confidence, it's another to ask them to go along with a charade where they treat a child differently when their parents are around, they shouldn't be put in a position where they have to do that.

Well my point is that expecting teachers to treat these issues as “charades” by default isn’t going to be sustainable. I haven’t seen any evidence that there’s a widespread problem of kids being insincere about wanting to identify as trans, so treating all cases that way is just going to make them miserable.

No teacher wants to be in a position where they have to lie to parents about their child’s sincerely held beliefs, but if the kid’s welfare is truly at stake and there’s no other path forward then I would hope they’d do it anyway.

 

[Nick]

Again, where does it end?

 

[SBT]

On the other hand, adults often know better when it comes to these things.

What next? Where does it end with kids dictating to teachers?

I think you’re seeing this as a discipline/authority issue rather than a welfare one. No-one is suggesting that kids are going to start seizing control of the curriculum and the PTA because a tiny fraction of them are struggling with their personal identity.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t pretend to understand it but in the interests of supporting a student through it what I think doesn’t matter. Particularly in the case of 6th formers.

It is difficult enough still coming out as gay in school never mind a different gender if it’s a genuinely held belief.

I personally don’t think anyone who held that belief at that age would be massively concerned at gender terms being misused

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I personally don’t think anyone who held that belief at that age would be massively concerned at gender terms being misused

They do if you continue to use the wrong ones

 

[Grendel]

They do if you continue to use the wrong ones

Mmm my point is more aimed at those who genuinely believe they are the wrong gender

 

[Nick]

I personally don’t think anyone who held that belief at that age would be massively concerned at gender terms being misused

They do now if they want to be a victim and act like they have been punched in the face. Straight to Tiktok to tell everybody.

Would think somebody seriously going through the change would be a bit more understanding.

I was misgendered by mistake the other day in an email, it was hilarious.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Mmm my point is more aimed at those who genuinely believe they are the wrong gender

Those people would be even more offended at people deliberately using the wrong words

 

[Nick]

I think you’re seeing this as a discipline/authority issue rather than a welfare one. No-one is suggesting that kids are going to start seizing control of the curriculum and the PTA because a tiny fraction of them are struggling with their personal identity.

Well if they say they identify as somebody who doesn't believe the war happened. Do the teachers need to agree or tell them they are wrong?

Likewise when they have a boy saying they are on their period.

 

[Grendel]

Those people would be even more offended at people deliberately using the wrong words

Do you know that for a fact?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well if they say they identify as somebody who doesn't believe the war happened. Do the teachers need to agree or tell them they are wrong?

Likewise when they have a boy saying they are on their period.

I used to teach in a CofE school where a lot of students stood by the Genesis story of how the world was created. I must admit the scientist in me refused to entertain that as a valid theory

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you know that for a fact?

Given that I have worked in classrooms for the last 7 years and you have never worked in a school, yes I do know that.

 

[Grendel]

Given that I have worked in classrooms for the last 7 years and you have never worked in a school, yes I do know that.

And those students have changed gender when they were able to?

 

[Nick]

I used to teach in a CofE school where a lot of students stood by the Genesis story of how the world was created. I must admit the scientist in me refused to entertain that as a valid theory

So for example if somebody is born a boy but identifies as female say they need to leave the class because of period pains?

What happens if a kid denies the holocaust happens because they identify as a holocaust denier? Do history lessons get changed to suit them?

Where does it end.

 

[SBT]

Well if they say they identify as somebody who doesn't believe the war happened. Do the teachers need to agree or tell them they are wrong?

Likewise when they have a boy saying they are on their period.

Well what trans kids are trying to do here is establish a principle whereby anything they say has to be immediately accepted by the school, so yes legally, the teachers would have to concede that WW2 never happened.

Is that what you think is going on here?

 

[Ian1779]

I do think the “playing” with gender identity for a large proportion of those who claim to have it is influenced by social media and potentially dangerous

Whilst I don’t disagree with your point, we are relatively powerless as most of the exposure is on social media and outside of school.

All we can do is educate with facts, so young people know as much as possible.
It’s important to know for example that being non-binary or gender fluid is not the same as someone that may consider themselves trans, and if this was something they wanted to explore when an adult, there is a significant process to go through, which you would hope means that only those that truly feel this way would explore this further.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And those students have changed gender when they were able to?

For example I’ve had students who were biologically male, both identified and dressed as female and were in a homosexual relationship with each other.

 

[Ian1779]

So for example if somebody is born a boy but identifies as female say they need to leave the class because of period pains?

What happens if a kid denies the holocaust happens because they identify as a holocaust denier? Do history lessons get changed to suit them?

Where does it end.

Come on Nick, both these examples are daft and in reality would never happen.

 

[Grendel]

For example I’ve had students who were biologically male, both identified and dressed as female and were in a homosexual relationship with each other.

Which was not exactly the point I was trying to make

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So for example if somebody is born a boy but identifies as female say they need to leave the class because of period pains?

What happens if a kid denies the holocaust happens because they identify as a holocaust denier? Do history lessons get changed to suit them?

Where does it end.

They physically can’t have period pains and if a student of mine expressed Holocaust denial I’d refer them under the PREVENT protocol.

 

[Nick]

Come on Nick, both these examples are daft and in reality would never happen.

Are they?

10 years ago we would have been saying it is daft that males are advertising tampons and it would never happen.