What’s it all about? (16 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Well what trans kids are trying to do here is establish a principle whereby anything they say has to be immediately accepted by the school, so yes legally, the teachers would have to concede that WW2 never happened.

Is that what you think is going on here?

What exactly is your claim here?

That humans really can change sex with thoughts and it’s not externally verifiable?

That we should never tell a kid they’re wrong for psychological safety?

 

---

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which was not exactly the point I was trying to make

If I repeatedly used the wrong name or pronoun with those students, despite being reminded, it would be seen as a form of bullying, which to be honest it pretty much is.

 

[shmmeee]

They physically can’t have period pains and if a student of mine expressed Holocaust denial I’d refer them under the PREVENT protocol.

This is not what’s accepted in trans communities. There are hundreds of posts about “trans periods”.

 

[Grendel]

If I repeatedly used the wrong name or pronoun with those students, despite being reminded, it would be seen as a form of bullying, which to be honest it pretty much is.

My reference was if they actually had an operation to change gender.

 

[Grendel]

This is not what’s accepted in trans communities. There are hundreds of posts about “trans periods”.

Lol really?

 

[TomRad85]

Social media has poisoned children and schools going along with the delusions of said children against the wishes of their parents is a joke.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This is not what’s accepted in trans communities. There are hundreds of posts about “trans periods”.

It’s biologically impossible.

 

[shmmeee]

Lol really?

Of course. Claims vary but the common one seems to be “I have female hormones so that causes me a monthly cycle”

This is the problem, if a kid says that do you say they’re wrong?

 

[Nick]

They physically can’t have period pain

Surely could be classed as transphobic to say this? They are women....

So where do you draw the line in telling the kid they are wrong and where you just go with it as to not upset them?

 

[shmmeee]

It’s biologically impossible.

So is changing sex yet here we are. There’s really no sensible place to draw the line once you’ve accepted nonsense for the sake of psychological safety.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course. Claims vary but the common one seems to be “I have female hormones so that causes me a monthly cycle”

This is the problem, if a kid says that do you say they’re wrong?

You do because to have a period you physically need female reproductive organs which they don’t have

 

[shmmeee]

You do because to have a period you physically need female reproductive organs which they don’t have

I know! But none of this is science based.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Surely could be classed as transphobic to say this? They are women....

So where do you draw the line in telling the kid they are wrong and where you just go with it as to not upset them?

‘I want to be called she instead of he’ is not on par with ‘I’m having period pains despite not having a uterus’

 

[Nick]

You do because to have a period you physically need female reproductive organs which they don’t have

They identify as women though.

And it’s also painful for transgender women like Tess, who don’t have uteruses and don’t bleed on a monthly cycle, but who are women and many of whom do have a period. “As a trans woman, obviously you don't have a monthly bleeding cycle, you don't have a uterus, you don't have ovaries. But you'll hear trans women talk a lot about having their periods,” says Meghan, a transgender woman and officer in the Royal Canadian Navy.

This is the point, you can say it's physically impossible but it seems generally accepted that trans women have periods.

So where do you draw the line?

 

[SBT]

What exactly is your claim here?

That humans really can change sex with thoughts and it’s not externally verifiable?

That we should never tell a kid they’re wrong for psychological safety?

That people can and do identify as a different gender from their biological sex due to a varied and reasonable set of concerns that deserve our consideration and respect

I know that statement implies to you that I support (or am naively enabling) some kind of sinister insurgent subculture that seeks total moral chaos but I promise there’s not much more to it than that

 

[shmmeee]

‘I want to be called she instead of he’ is not on par with ‘I’m having period pains despite not having a uterus’

Why?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They identify as women though.



This is the point, you can say it's physically impossible but it seems generally accepted that trans women have periods.

Accepted by who? It isn’t possible and if a male student ever claimed it I would tell them the same.

 

[Ian1779]

Are they?

10 years ago we would have been saying it is daft that males are advertising tampons and it would never happen.

In the incredibly unlikely even of the first one happening, the student in question would immediately be referred to the Safeguarding team.

 

[Grendel]

‘I want to be called she instead of he’ is not on par with ‘I’m having period pains despite not having a uterus’

The person is still a he

 

[shmmeee]

That people can and do identify as a different gender from their biological sex due to a varied and reasonable set of concerns that deserve our consideration and respect

I know that statement implies to you that I support (or am naively enabling) some kind of sinister insurgent subculture that seeks total moral chaos but I promise there’s not much more to it than that

Not really.

I’m not sure what “identify as a different gender from their biological sex” means, but if they suffer from gender dysphoria then social transition doesn’t help resolve that. Neither do puberty blockers.

If I reframed anorexics as “identifying as a different body shape to their biological weight” would you support schools offering them low calorie meals and the like?

I find it hilarious that you can’t actually argue your point and instead have to create weird straw men that means everyone who disagrees with you must be a crazy conspiracy filled bigot. And not someone with personal experience who is extremely well read on the topic and disagrees for fairly basic reasons of evidence and fairness.

 

[Nick]

Accepted by who? It isn’t possible and if a male student ever claimed it I would tell them the same.

Accepted by trans people....

I don't doubt that there are cases where people really do feel trapped in the wrong body and will go through therapy and then the physical / hormonal treatment and fully transition but how many have a "phase"?

I listened to rap music non stop when I was about 14, if I had blacked up and gone into school saying I identify as Puff Daddy and everybody must call me this I am pretty sure it wouldn't have ended well for me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Accepted by trans people....

I don't doubt that there are cases where people really do feel trapped in the wrong body and will go through therapy and then the physical / hormonal treatment and fully transition but how many have a "phase"?

I listened to rap music non stop when I was about 14, if I had blacked up and gone into school saying I identify as Puff Daddy and everybody must call me this I am pretty sure it wouldn't have ended well for me.

This is why, as I said a little while ago, I would not allow any hormone treatment or surgery until 18, minimum. While under that age, support them as best you can and if it’s a permanent belief or not, they’ll be grateful for the help later on.

 

[SBT]

I find it hilarious that you can’t actually argue your point and instead have to create weird straw men that means everyone who disagrees with you must be a crazy conspiracy filled bigot.

Dropping this sentence straight after a “what if trans people but anorexia” analogy was a choice

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why?

One is inventing a physical condition they do not have and the other is asking to be called a different name. Which given that none of us choose our birth names anyway, isn’t unreasonable or even that unusual

 

[Nick]

This is why, as I said a little while ago, I would not allow any hormone treatment or surgery until 18, minimum. While under that age, support them as best you can and if it’s a permanent belief or not, they’ll be grateful for the help later on.

How many trans women go through with all of the treatment / surgery?

 

[Nick]

One is inventing a physical condition they do not have and the other is asking to be called a different name. Which given that none of us choose our birth names anyway, isn’t unreasonable or even that unusual

Yes, but to them they are female and they have a period.

Why are you being transphobic?

 

[shmmeee]

Dropping this sentence straight after a “what if trans people but anorexia” analogy was a choice

It’s the closest psychological analogy, it’s a form of body dysmorphia. Would you prefer body integrity disorder or another form of psychological distress seemingly linked with the brains map of the body?

Or are you claiming being trans has nothing to do with dysphoria and is just a lifestyle choice? In which case why does this lifestyle choice get privileges beyond any other?

So far you have: recast me saying men commit almost all sex crimes as “trans people are predators” and now this. It’s fairly obvious you aren’t open to a serious conversation on this topic.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, but to them they are female and they have a period.

Why are you being transphobic?

No problem, if they can provide their own shedded uterine lining from their testicles

 

[shmmeee]

One is inventing a physical condition they do not have and the other is asking to be called a different name. Which given that none of us choose our birth names anyway, isn’t unreasonable or even that unusual

Asking for a different name is fine. Most teachers will do that as long as the student isn’t taking the piss.

It’s asking to get changed with the girls and for people to pretend they’re the opposite sex where it moves from just curtesy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Asking for a different name is fine. Most teachers will do that as long as the student isn’t taking the piss.

It’s asking to get changed with the girls and for people to pretend they’re the opposite sex where it moves from just curtesy.

The discussion was about names and pronouns rather than changing rooms wasn’t it?

 

[Nick]

No problem, if they can provide their own shedded uterine lining from their testicles

Well yeah, testicles.

 

[shmmeee]

The discussion was about names and pronouns rather than changing rooms wasn’t it?

It’s about the whole shebang. Should a school play along? I’m saying that when a request for social transition can be a sign of numerous mental health comorbidities it’s a safeguarding issue that must be raised with parents.

I’m also saying that all the available data (and admittedly there’s not much) shows that social transition lessens the chances of dysphoric feelings resolving naturally. As such it’s not a neutral act to go along with a kids request to be treated as the opposite sex. It’s a bit more than James wanting to be called Jimmy now. It’s closer to James wanting to be called Switchblade or NoScope36069. Some teachers would just go along, but I’m not sure teachers who refuse should be punished. Neither should they for James to Jimmy, but they’re more of a dick.

 

[Ian1779]

Asking for a different name is fine. Most teachers will do that as long as the student isn’t taking the piss.

It’s asking to get changed with the girls and for people to pretend they’re the opposite sex where it moves from just curtesy.

Despite the rhetoric you hear from the sabre waivers at the Daily Mail, this would just not take place in a school. You would have risk assessments in place for the individual and others to protect everyone, so it just couldn’t occur. If they ignored these measures and did it I think you’d be looking at a PX.

 

[SBT]

It’s fairly obvious you aren’t open to a serious conversation on this topic.

I’m sorry, this is the Earlsdon school of argument. You’re a couple of hours away from challenging me to a cage fight at this rate.

My answer to your definitely-not-a-straw-man anorexia question is that I think any kid struggling with that deserves the school’s full welfare support, regardless of whether some teachers think they’re making it up, or whether their parents would throw them out of the house for even mentioning it at parents’ evening. The school shouldn’t encourage anything that endangers their physical or mental health, and while I’m not here to define where that does and doesn’t happen with every medical and mental health condition in the textbook, those are the principles that teachers should be going by.

I know you think this is just wishy-washy hippie stuff; I know you think all these people are just mentally ill and/or duplicitous schemers; I know you think this is all a slippery slope to some kind of more dangerous world. But I have no ulterior motive here other than that vulnerable kids sometimes need looking after by their teachers.

 

[Ian1779]

It’s about the whole shebang. Should a school play along? I’m saying that when a request for social transition can be a sign of numerous mental health comorbidities it’s a safeguarding issue that must be raised with parents.

I’m also saying that all the available data (and admittedly there’s not much) shows that social transition lessens the chances of dysphoric feelings resolving naturally. As such it’s not a neutral act to go along with a kids request to be treated as the opposite sex. It’s a bit more than James wanting to be called Jimmy now. It’s closer to James wanting to be called Switchblade or NoScope36069. Some teachers would just go along, but I’m not sure teachers who refuse should be punished. Neither should they for James to Jimmy, but they’re more of a dick.

I know I haven’t got a huge data sample to refer to, but I haven’t come across a student that has asked to identify as the other main gender, I’ve only come across students that have become non-binary and used they/them pronouns with different names.
What about other teachers?