USSR invades Ukraine. (14 Viewers)

[PVA]

No your nonsense attempt to state I support nazi Germany was absurd

It's as much nonsense as you stating that anyone who supports arming Ukraine supports Ukrainian people dying and backing the US supplying arms means you support Saudi Arabia.

Plus all other bullshit associations you make.

 

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[Sick Boy]

It's as much nonsense as you stating that anyone who supports arming Ukraine supports Ukrainian people dying and backing the US supplying arms means you support Saudi Arabia.

Plus all other bullshit associations you make.

It doesn’t mean you support them but it shows a level of hypocrisy.

 

[Grendel]

It's as much nonsense as you stating that anyone who supports arming Ukraine supports Ukrainian people dying and backing the US supplying arms means you support Saudi Arabia.

Plus all other bullshit associations you make.

No it isn’t as you are by not trying to see ways of ending the war by definition increasing the death toll

 

[PVA]

It doesn’t mean you support them but it’s shows a level of hypocrisy.

No it doesn't. They are two totally separate things.

 

[Grendel]

It doesn’t mean you support them but it shows a level of hypocrisy.

I do wonder if the generals were around in the Vietnam war they’d be demanding we arm the Vietnamese army against the US

 

[PVA]

I do wonder if the generals were around in the Vietnam war they’d be demanding we arm the Vietnamese army against the US

Oh so do you support Nazi Germany's actions during WW2 then. Cool.

 

[skybluetony176]

It doesn’t mean you support them but it shows a level of hypocrisy.

You can quite easily accuse the US and UK governments of hypocrisy for their stances on Ukraine and Saudi Arabia and I think everyone here would agree with you. I certainly would and I’ve not seen anyone else say anything to suggest they wouldn’t either.

But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re using 2 separate conflicts and suggesting that just because we support our countries stance on Ukraine we must support our countries stance on Saudi Arabia too as some sort of gotcha. That’s just totally dishonest.

 

[Grendel]

Oh so do you support Nazi Germany's actions during WW2 then. Cool.

No I don’t as Nazi Germany was a direct threat to us. A clear direct threat. It was a threat that would strangulate Europe and destroy our own way of living

I hate to break it to you but Mr Putin and his rag tag army aren’t invading Western Europe anytime soon

 

[Ian1779]

You can quite easily accuse the US and UK governments of hypocrisy for their stances on Ukraine and Saudi Arabia and I think everyone here would agree with you. I certainly would and I’ve not seen anyone else say anything to suggest they wouldn’t either.

But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re using 2 separate conflicts and suggesting that just because we support our countries stance on Ukraine we must support our countries stance on Saudi Arabia too as some sort of gotcha. That’s just totally dishonest.

But then on here people are saying if you don’t support our countries stance on perpetually arming Ukraine then you must therefore be a Russian enthusiast (rather than the actual point that posters are merely suggesting that there may have to be a solution involving peace talks)

Are you not arguing the same point in reverse?

 

[PVA]

No I don’t as Nazi Germany was a direct threat to us. A clear direct threat. It was a threat that would strangulate Europe and destroy our own way of living

I hate to break it to you but Mr Putin and his rag tag army aren’t invading Western Europe anytime soon

Spectacularly missing the point as per.

 

[Grendel]

Spectacularly missing the point as per.

Yep you are and have been from day 1

Not many generals around now on here are there?

 

[Sick Boy]

You can quite easily accuse the US and UK governments of hypocrisy for their stances on Ukraine and Saudi Arabia and I think everyone here would agree with you. I certainly would and I’ve not seen anyone else say anything to suggest they wouldn’t either.

But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re using 2 separate conflicts and suggesting that just because we support our countries stance on Ukraine we must support our countries stance on Saudi Arabia too as some sort of gotcha. That’s just totally dishonest.

Erm, no I’m not. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting a regime that is likely worse than Putin and the fact there’s a lack of outrage or care about people being bombed.

 

[PVA]

Erm, no I’m not. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting a regime that is likely worse than Putin and the fact there’s a lack of outrage or care about people being bombed.

Who here is supporting Saudi Arabia?

 

[Sick Boy]

Who here is supporting Saudi Arabia?

The UK happily supplies arms to them and has their leader or whatever he is over for a state visit soon.

 

[PVA]

The UK happily supplies arms to them and has their leader or whatever he is over for a state visit soon.

No one then

 

[skybluetony176]

But then on here people are saying if you don’t support our countries stance on perpetually arming Ukraine then you must therefore be a Russian enthusiast (rather than the actual point that posters are merely suggesting that there may have to be a solution involving peace talks)

Are you not arguing the same point in reverse?

1) That isn’t an actual point, it’s a pipe dream. There is zero prospect of having a negotiated piece with Putin. It’s for the birds. It didn’t work in 2014 when he annexed Crimea it won’t work again. What is it they say about doing the same things expecting different results?

2) I’m not suggesting that their stance on Ukraine automatically dictates their stance on Saudi Arabia. Which is obviously what they’re doing otherwise what would have been the point in bringing up Saudi Arabia in the first place.

3) No one who brought up Saudi Arabia has mentioned a negotiated solution in Yemen with the Saudis. Now I’m not going to pretend that isn’t their stance because I don’t know one way or the other and by the same stance I’m not going to label them hypocrites for not suggesting it either. That is what arguing the same point in reverse would be.

 

[skybluetony176]

Erm, no I’m not. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting a regime that is likely worse than Putin and the fact there’s a lack of outrage or care about people being bombed.

I’m outraged. You assumed I wasn’t in an attempted gotcha. I’ve pointed this out to you already.

 

[Sick Boy]

But then on here people are saying if you don’t support our countries stance on perpetually arming Ukraine then you must therefore be a Russian enthusiast (rather than the actual point that posters are merely suggesting that there may have to be a solution involving peace talks)

Are you not arguing the same point in reverse?

Yeah, it’s quite a bizarre viewpoint.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But then on here people are saying if you don’t support our countries stance on perpetually arming Ukraine then you must therefore be a Russian enthusiast (rather than the actual point that posters are merely suggesting that there may have to be a solution involving peace talks)

Are you not arguing the same point in reverse?

Peace talks involving Ukraine ceding territory are clearly unacceptable as it legitimises the invasion and would at best be a ceasefire ahead of another attack shortly after. Peace talks involving Russian withdrawal from all of the territory are somewhat different.

 

[Sick Boy]

Peace talks involving Ukraine ceding territory are clearly unacceptable as it legitimises the invasion and would at best be a ceasefire ahead of another attack shortly after. Peace talks involving Russian withdrawal from all of the territory are somewhat different.

Most wars have involved territory changing hands afterwards.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah, it’s quite a bizarre viewpoint.

Hey Sick Boy, do a forum search using Yemen as your search word. For the benefit of doubt you’ll see me do nothing other than condemning the sales of arms to Saudi Arabia on several different threads. There is another poster though who justifies it using excuses like “it secures British jobs” while brushing it off as “that’s life”. See if you can guess who that poster is. You might actually remember it because you labelled them (and rightly so) a hypocrite. I’ll give you another clue. It’s someone who agrees with your stance on the invasion of Ukraine not someone who disagrees with your stance.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Most wars have involved territory changing hands afterwards.

It will ultimately end up with the full conquest of Ukraine by a thousand cuts.

 

[PVA]

Hey Sick Boy, do a forum search using Yemen as your search word. For the benefit of doubt you’ll see me do nothing other than condemning the sales of arms to Saudi Arabia on several different threads. There is another poster though who justifies it using excuses like “it secures British jobs” while brushing it off as “that’s life”. See if you can guess who that poster is. You might actually remember it because you labelled them (and rightly so) a hypocrite. I’ll give you another clue. It’s someone who agrees with your stance on the invasion of Ukraine not someone who disagrees with your stance.

Oh wow, that's gold.

When it suits whatever argument he's making on a particular day supplying arms to Saudi is a case of 'that's life'.

Then when it suits his next argument, supplying Saudi is 'being on the baddies side' and doing dirty work.

What a weasel

 

[Ian1779]

Peace talks involving Ukraine ceding territory are clearly unacceptable as it legitimises the invasion and would at best be a ceasefire ahead of another attack shortly after. Peace talks involving Russian withdrawal from all of the territory are somewhat different.

Peace talks would be between the 2 countries at conflict and they would decide on the terms.

 

[PVA]

 

[skybluetony176]

Peace talks would be between the 2 countries at conflict and they would decide on the terms.

They already have. Putin is on the record saying that he doesn’t believe Ukraine has the right to exist and Ukraine has said it will not stop fighting until all its sovereign land is returned to them. You have your answer. The terms for both sides are already out in the open.

 

[Ian1779]

They already have. Putin is on the record saying that he doesn’t believe Ukraine has the right to exist and Ukraine has said it will not stop fighting until all its sovereign land is returned to them. You have your answer. The terms for both sides are already out in the open.

Is that gonna be the same in say another 2 years?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is that gonna be the same in say another 2 years?

Call me a horrible person but within the next 2 years I hope Putin “accidentally” falls out of a window and Russia fully withdraws its army.

Can’t see a resolution with Putin in the picture and the only way I can see him being out the picture requires his death. No one trusts him, not even his own people and with reason. Putin out of the picture and who knows maybe Ukraine will change their stance.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Is that gonna be the same in say another 2 years?

Probably.

 

[Ian1779]

Probably.

And what if the US pull the plug because there is an administration change? Where does that leave a country that can’t fight Russia on its own?
It also doesn’t excuse or support Russia in any way whatsoever to discuss this.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And what if the US pull the plug because there is an administration change? Where does that leave a country that can’t fight Russia on its own?
It also doesn’t excuse or support Russia in any way whatsoever to discuss this.

It will leave Putin able to conquer the country and commit whatever atrocities he likes. Then move on to claiming other non-NATO former USSR territories, namely Georgia and Moldova.

Just letting a country disappear from the map while also handing him a big wedge of mainland Europe is incredibly, incredibly dangerous and it stuns me that people either don't or won't see that.

 

[PVA]

And what if the US pull the plug because there is an administration change? Where does that leave a country that can’t fight Russia on its own?
It also doesn’t excuse or support Russia in any way whatsoever to discuss this.

Then obviously that changes things significantly. So hopefully it does not happen.

I would expect the EU/Europe to step up their aid if that did happen though, but not enough to replace the US' contribution I am sure.

 

[Sick Boy]

It will leave Putin able to conquer the country and commit whatever atrocities he likes. Then move on to claiming other non-NATO former USSR territories, namely Georgia and Moldova.

Just letting a country disappear from the map while also handing him a big wedge of mainland Europe is incredibly, incredibly dangerous and it stuns me that people either don't or won't see that.

Presumably you’re of the opinion that any future country that gets invaded should have the same level of support, no matter what continent they’re in?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Presumably you’re of the opinion that any future country that gets invaded should have the same level of support, no matter what continent they’re in?

What's currently going on is the equivalent of Britain invading Ireland with everything it's got to get the gang back together again. Assuming you think there should be no consequences there in such a case?

 

[Sick Boy]

What's currently going on is the equivalent of Britain invading Ireland with everything it's got to get the gang back together again. Assuming you think there should be no consequences there in such a case?

Are you going to answer the question or not?
You’ve previously said there’s no case for the UK to pay reparations to Ireland but Russia should do, yet you’re now using it to draw comparisons haha.