Israel - Palestinian Conflict (34 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I am fairly sure non of them do.

Great but they do Hamas so that’s all cool

 

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[Otis]

Can I just ask, which UK politicians have actually come out and supported Hamas here over the attacks?

Genuine question, because I just don't know and a quick Google search has only thrown up support of Palestinians, not Hamas.

So I would honestly like to know

 

[shmmeee]

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. It's not pretend outrage, except to people who don't give a fuck about it.

In regard to Gaza, and what appears to be to many to be a serious war crime in progress, some on here care about it, some clearly don't. Similarly, some politicians care, some don't. One hundred children are dying every day in Gaza - in many people that's going to provoke real rather than faux outrage. Hence the protest marches.

Believing that what you think and feel is the same as what everyone else thinks and feels, is nonsensical.

This, "it doesn't matter what politicians say" line, is, I'm afraid, bollocks of the very highest order.

If it didn't matter what politicians said and did, or what they stood for or against, or ignored, then this thread would be dead as a doornail, and voting would be entirely pointless.

Maybe the latter is, in fairness, given where the current parties stand.

The cenotaph/armistice stuff is fake outrage and TBH so is resigning over the difference between a ceasefire and a humanitarian pause when neither are going to happen because of what Sunak or Starmer said. It’s the right enjoying a Corbyn redux where they get to paint the left as terrorists and the left using it mostly as an excuse to whine about Starmer and now to refuse to do what Braverman tells them. The only people that matter are a mental right wing Israeli govt that won’t even listen to their closest ally in the US, and a mental terrorist cult. What the fuck are we protesting? For who? The only people I’ve seen with a sensible take on the whole thing are people actually being bombed. Everyone else is just using their deaths as an excuse to fire up old wars.

Sorry not sorry.

 

[Otis]

It's nuts isn't it.

And you have the government and some of the press just stirring it all up.








1. The protests have been taking place every Saturday. Yes, Saturday, so not happening on Remembrance Sunday

2. The organisers of the protest have given the police their route and have said they are going nowhere near the cenotaph.

3. The protests have been very peaceful on the whole, with just a handful of arrests.

Stuff like the headlines above however, are just going to bring the right wing nutters out to defend "British values" or something to that effect

And I think it will turn violent because of that.

I'm sure this one would have been pretty peaceful too, if it wasn't for everyone trying to stir up a hornet's nest.

And if it does turn violent, no doubt that the protestors will take the blame, just as much as any EDL type hate mob.

And to me, that's exactly what some in the government, Braverman especially, want



You can almost predict in advance what's going to happen can't you.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the damage to the cenotaph in Rochdale has been fuelled because of all this shit stirring taking place.

I think if the right wing press hadn't covered this story of Saturday's march, no-one would have got their knickers in a twist over it.

My missus goes on Mumsnet and said, though there are indeed many sensible posts, there are also a lot of angry "how dare they take OUR day from us" types of post.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

It's nuts isn't it.

And you have the government and some of the press just stirring it all up.

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1. The protests have been taking place every Saturday. Yes, Saturday, so not happening on Remembrance Sunday

2. The organisers of the protest have given the police their route and have said they are going nowhere near the cenotaph.

3. The protests have been very peaceful on the whole, with just a handful of arrests.

Stuff like the headlines above however, are just going to bring the right wing nutters out to defend "British values" or something to that effect

And I think it will turn violent because of that.

I'm sure this one would have been pretty peaceful too, if it wasn't for everyone trying to stir up a hornet's nest.

And if it does turn violent, no doubt that the protestors will take the blame, just as much as any EDL type hate mob.

And to me, that's exactly what some in the government, Braverman especially, want

View attachment 32362

You can almost predict in advance what's going to happen can't you.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the damage to the cenotaph in Rochdale has been fuelled because of all this shit stirring taking place.

I think if the right wing press hadn't covered this story of Saturday's march, no-one would have got their knickers in a twist over it.

My missus goes on Mumsnet and said, though there are indeed many sensible posts, there are also a lot of angry "how dare they take OUR day from us" types of post.

Absolutely.

 

[wingy]

It's nuts isn't it.

And you have the government and some of the press just stirring it all up.

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View attachment 32361


1. The protests have been taking place every Saturday. Yes, Saturday, so not happening on Remembrance Sunday

2. The organisers of the protest have given the police their route and have said they are going nowhere near the cenotaph.

3. The protests have been very peaceful on the whole, with just a handful of arrests.

Stuff like the headlines above however, are just going to bring the right wing nutters out to defend "British values" or something to that effect

And I think it will turn violent because of that.

I'm sure this one would have been pretty peaceful too, if it wasn't for everyone trying to stir up a hornet's nest.

And if it does turn violent, no doubt that the protestors will take the blame, just as much as any EDL type hate mob.

And to me, that's exactly what some in the government, Braverman especially, want

View attachment 32362

You can almost predict in advance what's going to happen can't you.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the damage to the cenotaph in Rochdale has been fuelled because of all this shit stirring taking place.

I think if the right wing press hadn't covered this story of Saturday's march, no-one would have got their knickers in a twist over it.

My missus goes on Mumsnet and said, though there are indeed many sensible posts, there are also a lot of angry "how dare they take OUR day from us" types of post.

Wonder how many actually attend?

 

[Como]

Always good to know what they are marching for

 

[BodicoteSkyBlue]

It's nuts isn't it.

And you have the government and some of the press just stirring it all up.

View attachment 32359

View attachment 32360

View attachment 32361


1. The protests have been taking place every Saturday. Yes, Saturday, so not happening on Remembrance Sunday

2. The organisers of the protest have given the police their route and have said they are going nowhere near the cenotaph.

3. The protests have been very peaceful on the whole, with just a handful of arrests.

Stuff like the headlines above however, are just going to bring the right wing nutters out to defend "British values" or something to that effect

And I think it will turn violent because of that.

I'm sure this one would have been pretty peaceful too, if it wasn't for everyone trying to stir up a hornet's nest.

And if it does turn violent, no doubt that the protestors will take the blame, just as much as any EDL type hate mob.

And to me, that's exactly what some in the government, Braverman especially, want

View attachment 32362

You can almost predict in advance what's going to happen can't you.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the damage to the cenotaph in Rochdale has been fuelled because of all this shit stirring taking place.

I think if the right wing press hadn't covered this story of Saturday's march, no-one would have got their knickers in a twist over it.

My missus goes on Mumsnet and said, though there are indeed many sensible posts, there are also a lot of angry "how dare they take OUR day from us" types of post.

Spot on!

 

[Otis]

Always good to know what they are marching for

They are marching for peace aren't they? I know for a fact that there are peace groups who are part of the march.

I don't understand why people keep thinking any march for Palestine and wishing peace in Gaza and Palestine, is a pro Hamas thing.

Even the UN are now saying Israel are committing war crimes. Both sides




And now we have this contend with on top.

English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, who has been allowed back on X, formerly known as Twitter, after being banned for “hateful conduct” said on the platform: “British men are mobilising for Saturday to be in London.”

 

[Ian1779]

Yeah this sounds totally legitimate…..

 

[skybluetony176]

If, if there is trouble at the cenotaph at the weekend but the march doesn’t actually go anywhere near it (which I understand has always been the plan) then how could any trouble be down to the march? At the moment any trouble at the cenotaph seems most likely that a load of gammons riled up by Braverman turn up at the cenotaph looking for trouble with marchers and when none turn up they’ll take it out on the police. In that scenario that’s on Braverman, with her hate speech.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

If, if there is trouble at the cenotaph at the weekend but the march doesn’t actually go anywhere near it (which I understand has always been the plan) then how could any trouble be down to the march? At the moment any trouble at the cenotaph seems most likely that a load of gammons riled up by Braverman turn up at the cenotaph looking for trouble with marchers and when none turn up they’ll take it out on the police. In that scenario that’s on Braverman, with her hate speech.

Sunak and Bravaman will be very disappointed if there is no trouble. It's not as if they don't have proper jobs to do but they woukd rather engage in this stupid cultures wars.

 

[Nick]

Interesting that if it kicks off at the weekend it's instantly the "gammons" fault.

 

[skybluetony176]

Interesting that if it kicks off at the weekend it's instantly the "gammons" fault.

Well, maybe it’s because some of us are old enough to remember the BLM protests when a frenzy was whipped up that they were going to start attacking monuments in London. All that happened in the end was a load of gammons turned up to “protect” monuments, fought with the police because there was no one else to fight with and then desecrated a monument by pissing on it. Maybe you’re too young to remember that but not everyone here is.

 

[SBT]

Interesting that if it kicks off at the weekend it's instantly the "gammons" fault.

Not sure who you’re referring to here, but there’s only one group of protestors which has vowed to gather in numbers at the Cenotaph on Saturday for reasons other than Armistice Day, and it’s not the pro-Palestinian marchers. I would take it up with them.

 

[CCFCSteve]

They are marching for peace aren't they? I know for a fact that there are peace groups who are part of the march.

I don't understand why people keep thinking any march for Palestine and wishing peace in Gaza and Palestine, is a pro Hamas thing.

Even the UN are now saying Israel are committing war crimes. Both sides


View attachment 32363

And now we have this contend with on top.

English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, who has been allowed back on X, formerly known as Twitter, after being banned for “hateful conduct” said on the platform: “British men are mobilising for Saturday to be in London.”

I agree most will be marching for a ceasefire however I think it’s fair to say there will be a (possibly substantial) minority that will be anti Israel and then a smaller minority anti semite

I’d have a lot more respect if those marching for a ceasefire were also targeting hamas and the release of the hostages, albeit they’re even less likely to listen to someone in london on a Saturday afternoon than the Israeli government. That’s what a real peace march would look like though. Anyone who does, full respect as there won’t ever be a proper ceasefire/resolution without positive actions in these areas as well

ps Sunak was obviously right to let the marches go ahead. It’s peoples democratic right in this country as long as they remain peaceful and aren’t a threat to others

 

[Otis]

Interesting that if it kicks off at the weekend it's instantly the "gammons" fault.

Well, to be fair, Nick, there have been protest marches every Saturday for a few weeks now and they have all passed off with barely any trouble at all. Just a handful of arrests.

So if it kicks off on Saturday, why would it suddenly be the protestors who have been marching peacefully?

Surely it's much, much more likely to be the EDL types "mobilising for Saturday."

Absolutely logical isn't it?

 

[SBT]

I suppose the bigger point is even if the marches changes the governments and/or labours stance and they call for a ceasefire (which Hamas won’t adhere to even if Israel did) they won’t make any difference to Israel as Israel will do what they feel they need to do.

This is where it differs to day the anti Iraq war marches for me, they were trying to influence our governments/our country’s involvement in the war. To say ‘not on our name’.

The anti-Iraq war protests were never going to stop a war in Iraq either. You’re missing the point of protesting - the people attending do so knowing that world governments aren’t going to suddenly cave to all of their demands overnight.

 

[Otis]

I agree most will be marching for a ceasefire however I think it’s fair to say there will be a (possibly substantial) minority that will be anti Israel and then a smaller minority anti semite

I’d have a lot more respect if those marching for a ceasefire were also targeting hamas and the release of the hostages, albeit they’re even less likely to listen to someone in london on a Saturday afternoon than the Israeli government. That’s what a real peace march would look like though. Anyone who does, full respect as there won’t ever be a proper ceasefire/resolution without positive actions in these areas as well

ps Sunak was obviously right to let the marches go ahead. It’s peoples democratic right in this country as long as they remain peaceful and aren’t a threat to others

I agree. I would really like to see protests aimed at Hamas too.

 

[TomRad85]

Well, to be fair, Nick, there have been protest marches every Saturday for a few weeks now and they have all passed off with barely any trouble at all. Just a handful of arrests.

So if it kicks off on Saturday, why would it suddenly be the protestors who have been marching peacefully?

Surely it's much, much more likely to be the EDL types "mobilising for Saturday."

Absolutely logical isn't it?

Barely any trouble due to safety in numbers is the reality. There's an awful lot of hate at these 'peace' marches.

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[TomRad85]

I agree. I would really like to see protests aimed at Hamas too.

They aren't though are they.

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[skybluetony176]

Not sure who you’re referring to here, but there’s only one group of protestors which has vowed to gather in numbers at the Cenotaph on Saturday for reasons other than Armistice Day, and it’s not the pro-Palestinian marchers. I would take it up with them.

Exactly. I understand that Tommy Robinson has put a video on social media calling for people to gather at the cenotaph to show British people aren’t happy. History shows the rest. It’s a far smaller leap to claim that the right wing is going to cause trouble than the giant leap that Braverman is making. It’s the Tories that are whipping the right wing into a frenzy. Any trouble they cause will be on Braverman.

 

[SBT]

Barely any trouble due to safety in numbers is the reality. There's an awful lot of hate at these 'peace' marches.

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Which one did you go to?

 

[CCFCSteve]

.

The anti-Iraq war protests were never going to stop a war in Iraq either. You’re missing the point of protesting - the people attending do so knowing that world governments aren’t going to suddenly cave to all of their demands overnight.

In my mind these are totally different to the Iraq war marches which were a large proportion of population either trying to change/influence government policy (our own government - not another countys) and saying ‘not in our name’.

 

[TomRad85]

Which one did you go to?

 

[SBT]

I’d have a lot more respect if those marching for a ceasefire were also targeting hamas and the release of the hostages

The implication here that the pro-ceasefire protestors generally condone Hamas and the taking of hostages is just bizarre.

 

[SBT]

.


In my mind these are totally different to the Iraq war marches which were a large proportion of population either trying to change/influence government policy (our own government - not another countys) and saying ‘not in our name’.

I think that’s exactly what these pro-ceasefire marches are all about - I’m not sure what else you think they’re for.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I agree most will be marching for a ceasefire however I think it’s fair to say there will be a (possibly substantial) minority that will be anti Israel and then a smaller minority anti semite

I’d have a lot more respect if those marching for a ceasefire were also targeting hamas and the release of the hostages, albeit they’re even less likely to listen to someone in london on a Saturday afternoon than the Israeli government. That’s what a real peace march would look like though. Anyone who does, full respect as there won’t ever be a proper ceasefire/resolution without positive actions in these areas as well

ps Sunak was obviously right to let the marches go ahead. It’s peoples democratic right in this country as long as they remain peaceful and aren’t a threat to others

Sunak didn't let the marches go ahead. It wasn't his decision, although he used the position to try to make a point that he thinks will deliver political support. It's not Government decision as we don't live in a police state. It was an operational police decision.

 

[SBT]

Sorry, I was told to be careful about jumping on social media bandwagons about this one. Assumed you’d seen it in person.

 

[Otis]

They aren't though are they.

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Nope. I don't see how I can have any influence on that though.

If there was one I would totally back it.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Barely any trouble due to safety in numbers is the reality. There's an awful lot of hate at these 'peace' marches.

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Has there been any evidence to support that?

 

[TomRad85]

Nope. I don't see how I can have any influence on that though.

If there was one I would totally back it.

So at least we agreed it's a completely one sided pro Palestine march at very best.

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[CCFCSteve]

The implication here that the pro-ceasefire protestors generally condone Hamas and the taking of hostages is just bizarre.

I think you’re struggling to read my posts. I was responding to otis talking about peace marches and that I’d respect anyone also calling for return of hostages etc as that’s what will be needed to get peace

 

[CCFCSteve]

I think that’s exactly what these pro-ceasefire marches are all about - I’m not sure what else you think they’re for.

But it’s not us/our government undertaking the actions in Gaza/Israel. Very different

 

[Otis]

Barely any trouble due to safety in numbers is the reality. There's an awful lot of hate at these 'peace' marches.

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Couldn't the same be labelled at football matches?

Most don't cause any trouble at all, but you will always get a few idiots who are either causing trouble or throwing out racist abuse, or being offensive etc.