Israel - Palestinian Conflict (5 Viewers)

[napolimp]

I'm going to try and be careful what I say, but after this weekends events I decided that I want to know more about the conflict and its history. I've tended to steer well clear of having any sort of an opinion whatsoever, and maybe SBT isn't the best place to learn about the conflict, but I think sometimes it's actually easier to get an unbiased view from individuals.

There are a few things that have simply dumbfounded me over this weekends events.

1. So far, 700 Israelis have lost their lives and 400 Palestinians (from what I've read). A large amount of these are innocent citizens both side of the border. I know Hamas have been the aggressors on this occasion, but how can you be deemed a terrorist organisation when you kill hundreds of innocent people on one side, but just "the government" on the other side? I appreciate the irony with U.S. and British governments history on foreign soil.

2. Why are multiple government, and public, buildings being illuminated with the flags and colours of Israel? Hundreds of innocent lives were lost in both Israel and Gaza, so why are the lives of a certain group of people being prioritised as, what appears to be, more of a tragedy?

3. What's up with the clearly pro-Israel bias in the UK papers? There doesn't even appear to be any attempt at impartiality. The Independent has an article giving the Israeli ambassador to the UK a platform, where she asks Britain to stand with Israel against the "evil brutality" of Hamas. But the Israeli government has literally just murdered hundreds of innocent Palestinians when it wasn't actually necessary to do so, and the article only speaks of the death toll in Israel.

Again, I have no interest in starting some kind of political argument, and I understand the concept of antisemitism. I have no interest in bashing Israelis, who have suffered the worst tragedy in their communities in Israel over the weekend. But it does appear to me that there are 2 sets of innocent victims in this story.

 

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[Tommo1993]

Both sides are a set of cunts.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It's what happens when you draw lines in the sand to try and solve problems.

 

[stupot07]

When you look historically far more Palestinians have been killed or injuries compared to Israeli's

Infographic: The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

This chart shows Israeli & Palestinian deaths/injuries documented by the UN in Gaza and the West Bank.

www.google.com

This is a good summary



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[skybluetony176]

Whatever your opinions on either side the events are horrific and a lot of innocent people are victims.

 

[Evo1883]

I will never back the terrorist organisation that is hamas , not arsed what people think on here , I can guess though

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I will never back the murderous oppressive land-grabbing far-right Zionist Israeli government. Not arsed what people think, I can guess though.

 

[Bugsy]

and that is why there will never be any peace ever!

 

[clint van damme]

I will never back the terrorist organisation that is hamas , not arsed what people think on here , I can guess though

Israel had a large hand in creating them to make life difficult for the PLO.
I feel sorry for ordinary Palestinians living under both Hamas and Israel.

And when they try to protest peacefully they end up getting shot by the IDF.

 

[Evo1883]

Israel had a large hand in creating them to make life difficult for the PLO.
I feel sorry for ordinary Palestinians living under both Hamas and Israel.

And when they try to protest peacefully they end up getting shot by the IDF.

Islamic terror isn't an Israel thing and I get irritated when we support it in the UK .. bothers me

 

[napolimp]

I will never back the terrorist organisation that is hamas , not arsed what people think on here , I can guess though

Who's backing Hamas on here?

 

[TomRad85]

I will never back the terrorist organisation that is hamas , not arsed what people think on here , I can guess though

I find the people openly celebrating the attacks on the streets of the UK very disturbing.

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[Tommo1993]

Am 100% against Palestinian flags being flown around London, or anywhere else in the UK. Get it away.

 

[napolimp]

OK, I think I have my answers, I'll just close the thread. Clearly people can't manage to mourn loss of innocent life without rambling angrily about their personal bigoted opinions.

 

[clint van damme]

Islamic terror isn't an Israel thing and I get irritated when we support it in the UK .. bothers me

Israel let Hamas flourish.
Same as we did with Islamists in Afghanistan.
The West and its allies have let's many genies out of their bottles in the name of foreign policy it's frightening. And those genies aren't going back in.

Maybe someone who understands it more that me will say we had no option.
Islamic terrorists have been around for centuries, (they were around when Britain first went into Afghanistan in the 1800s), so yes, not created by the west or our allies but we've certainly fanned the flames.
Here's and interview with an Israeli commander about it. He spoke about it in the wall street journal long before this but its behind a pay wall

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

 

[clint van damme]

Am 100% against Palestinian flags being flown around London, or anywhere else in the UK. Get it away.

But fine with Ukranian?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Am 100% against Palestinian flags being flown around London, or anywhere else in the UK. Get it away.

How about the Israeli flag? Is that OK?

 

[Tommo1993]

But fine with Ukranian?

In this case I think it’s potentially more baiting and will encourage more trouble on our “impartial” doorstep.

 

[Tommo1993]

How about the Israeli flag? Is that OK?

Nope. You tend to see more of the other though.

 

[clint van damme]

I find the people openly celebrating the attacks on the streets of the UK very disturbing.

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Well celebrating a loss of life is disturbing.

 

[clint van damme]

In this case I think it’s potentially more baiting and will encourage more trouble on our “impartial” doorstep.

Downing Street was lit up with the Israeli flag last night, there is no impartiality.
We support Israel unequivocally, I don't agreebut that's the way it is but let's not pretend we're impartial.

 

[Tommo1993]

Downing Street was lit up with the Israeli flag last night, there is no impartiality.
We support Israel unequivocally, I don't agreebut that's the way it is but let's not pretend we're impartial.

Would you also say that as a nation we are publicly impartial? I didn’t particularly get that vibe.

 

[clint van damme]

Would you also say that as a nation we are publicly impartial? I didn’t particularly get that vibe.

I don't think it's the type of issue people are impartial on to be honest but when we're lighting up government buildings with the Israeli flag I think it's strange to say there's a bias towards Palestine.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

1. I oppose the murder of civilians on both sides.

2. I support a 2 state solution whereby Israel removes its illegal settlements from the West Bank and Hamas recognises the Israeli state.

3. Criticism of Israeli crimes doesn’t make one an anti Semite.

That’s about it really.

 

[rob9872]

Wish I understood it all tbh. I could be better read on it but as in most conflicts that personally don't affect me I guess I'm a bit lazy.

Not surprised to SBT has the answers though. Everything from medical issues, finances and world peace. If only the relevant parties would contact us more

 

[Tommo1993]

I don't think it's the type of issue people are impartial on to be honest but when we're lighting up government buildings with the Israeli flag I think it's strange to say there's a bias towards Palestine.

I’ve probably butchered my point. Every 5 minutes when it kicks off between the two, there are flags flown, protests demonstrated, etc, concentrated in London where there’s a large Jewish population - not so much Palestinian, but still significant. How long before it turns into physical violence?

 

[clint van damme]

1. I oppose the murder of civilians on both sides.

2. I support a 2 state solution whereby Israel removes its illegal settlements from the West Bank and Hamas recognises the Israeli state.

3. Criticism of Israeli crimes doesn’t make one an anti Semite.

That’s about it really.

Regarding point 2, worth pointing out that Hamas don't control the west bank and life there is hardly a bed of roses for ordinary Palestinians.

 

[clint van damme]

I’ve probably butchered my point. Every 5 minutes when it kicks off between the two, there are flags flown, protests demonstrated, etc, concentrated in London where there’s a large Jewish population - not so much Palestinian, but still significant. How long before it turns into physical violence?

I think it's envitable there will be incidents.
And the people responsible will totally ignore the fact that a sizable amount of the Jewish population won't support Israeli policy towards Palestine.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Regarding point 2, worth pointing out that Hamas don't control the west bank and life there is hardly a bed of roses for ordinary Palestinians.

Definitely, Israel have essentially ignored any semblance of sovereignty there. A big step towards peace would be mutual recognition by each state of the other’s right to exist.

 

[shmmeee]

Honestly no fucking idea. Everyone’s angry and any question gets a pile on from one side or another.

It sounds a bit Jezza but: Violence is bad?

 

[skybluetony176]

Definitely, Israel have essentially ignored any semblance of sovereignty there. A big step towards peace would be mutual recognition by each state of the other’s right to exist.

They tried that. Israeli PM Rabin was assassinated by the far right in Israel for signing the Oslo accords that set Israel on a path to piece with Palestine. It was quite a moment in history seeing Rabin and Arafat shaking hands. It’s been downhill since then.

 

[Grendel]

OK, I think I have my answers, I'll just close the thread. Clearly people can't manage to mourn loss of innocent life without rambling angrily about their personal bigoted opinions.

To be fair your OP was political as it was questioning why Hamas is viewed as a terrorist organisation

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They tried that. Israeli PM Rabin was assassinated by the far right in Israel for signing the Oslo accords that set Israel on a path to piece with Palestine. It was quite a moment in history seeing Rabin and Arafat shaking hands. It’s been downhill since then.

Correct. But the Netanyahu regime need to learn from the peace process over here.

 

[napolimp]

To be fair your OP was political as it was questioning why Hamas is viewed as a terrorist organisation

If that's the case then I it was worded badly, as I see no issue with Hamas being viewed as a terrorist organisation. What I struggle to understand is sheer hypocrisy when both sides appear to be behaving in the same manner. At the end of the day, I don't really see how killing innocent civilians can be distinguished.

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

You've come to the right place to learn about the Palestine/Israel war. You should try Wikipedia too.

I'm not educated on the matter enough to give a real opinion so I try not to get too deep into the whole situation as apparently you have to pick a side.

Both sides have committed atrocities, this is just one in a long list. The west have a Israel bias and see them as the innocent party when in reality they are no better.

You can't be naive to think people will accept decades of land grabbing but what happened was a despicable, terrorist act. Now more innocent people will die with the Israel response.