USSR invades Ukraine. (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
- Start date
Grendel
Well-Known Member
An agreement would have stopped this carnage from the very beginning
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
LOL. LMAO even.
What agreement form the beginning? Hand the country over like you suggested?
You do realise what Russia has planned for Ukrainian citizens don’t you? You do know what’s happening to Ukrainian kids and women in occupied territories don’t you? It’s a genocide attempt you contrarian moron. No going quietly wouldn’t have prevented any violence.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What’s your alternative? Ongoing conflict for years to come with trillions of £/$/€ put into it with 100s of 1000s more deaths?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sorry you are talking nonsense
Grendel
Well-Known Member
People should ask themselves what will peace actually look like - not in the chocolate box mentality adopted with the happy clappies on here - but in the actual reality of a war that will carry on for a decade without some diplomacy
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Err. There was an agreement in the first place. It was called the Budapest Memorandum. How can people be so stupid to believe an agreement would mean anything to Putin, if they did he wouldn’t have annexed Crimea or invaded any other part of Ukraine.
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
There are 3 clear scenarios that will or can play out.
1, Full defeat of some sort for Russia which brings about Regime change.
2, Ukranian victory/Russian withdrawal which will result in ongoing battles/skirmishes over the next 5 years or so
3, Russian victory which will remove any Ukranian nationalism and anyone either apathetic or anti Russian. Theis will then be followed by something similar in numerous other ex soviet states over the coming years.
An agreement or uneasy truce wont be a truce at all. It will just be giving Russia more time to get ready to try again and this time they will make sure their first attack on Kiev succeeds which is where it really went wrong the first time.
They do want it to go on forever or they want to stop it?
DrPoolittle
Well-Known Member
yeah but Russia didn’t want an agreement. They wanted to crush Ukraine and commit genocide
DrPoolittle
Well-Known Member
Nope. Russia is committing genocide.
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
Wake up Britain and the West.
At what point does this stop. This arse needs to be dealt with.
At what point does this stop. This arse needs to be dealt with.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yeah because it’s a good idea to take everything said on Russia TV at face value.
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
A bit like the military exercises before the invasion.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
If you take what is said on Russia TV as gospel, do you also believe the war is going massively in their favour then?
Putin isn’t an idiot and wouldn’t attack a NATO country, despite what gets claimed.
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eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
I understand that Russian tv is just a propaganda machine but I dont think for one minute that if Kyiv had fallen in the first few days that they wouldnt have moved on again bouyed by the success
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Phew. That'll be a massive relief to the people of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. I am sure they'll all stop worrying now that you've reassured them. Oh course they also know that Trump will come to their aid as he showed great support for Nato in his first term.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The last UN report of the war said this isn’t the case I believe
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
NATO decisions are made by consensus
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What evidence do you have that an attack on a NATO country has been planned?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Answer: None
Oh that's alright then. Let them crack on I guess.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
None at all. But likewise what do you have that there is no possibility of an attack in these countries un due course?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Not sure that you can claim Putin isn’t an idiot when he clearly believed Russia was going to be waved in by adoring Ukrainians throwing rose petals at the tracks of tanks all the way to Kyiv as liberators not invaders. He ain’t exactly smart is he. In fact the only thing probably stopping him from being stupid enough to invade a NATO country is the response from NATO countries to his invasion of Ukraine including Russias neighbours clambering over themselves to join NATO. He’s single handedly responsible for the expansion of NATO, the exact thing he was supposed to be stopping with his invasion. Again, not very smart.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What compromise will Russia be willing to accept? To only take half of Ukraine now and the rest in instalments?
I think his main issue here is surrounding himself with yes men and with total corruption - and all his dissenters over the years falling out of windows. Anyone that he asked advice from was telling him his military was wonderful and Ukraine would be crushed/surrender in 3 days.
I never said it was an astonishing insight but it's clearly a pretty significant factor in why his 3 day war is at 600+ days and counting.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I was watching something not that long ago where he’d been paying prominent people in Ukraine money for influence amongst the people. So long as they kept saying it was working he kept sending the money. It seems he really thought he’d won the hearts and minds of Ukrainians despite their being any tangible evidence to back it up. It’s the emperors new clothes syndrome. Which is exactly why you can’t say he isn’t an idiot.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I was watching something not that long ago where he’d been paying prominent people in Ukraine money for influence amongst the people. So long as they kept saying it was working he kept sending the money. It seems he really thought he’d won the hearts and minds of Ukrainians despite their not being any tangible evidence to back it up. It’s the emperors new clothes syndrome. Which is exactly why you can’t say he isn’t an idiot
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Same with the tank maintenance and everything. Always the issue with dictatorships, you optimise for leader happiness not effectiveness.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Their new T 14 tank is a standing joke also. Putin apparently believed they had the best designed tank in the world. The reality is it can’t even do a parade without having a tow truck on standby. Allegedly he’s only just learned it hasn’t even been built to the spec in terms of armament and weaponry that he was initially lead to believe it was. Although it still has a toilet for the crew. Although it’s no longer flushing.
Yeah not sure if we read the same thing, but I saw something on that a while ago (or maybe I heard it on a podcast, I can't remember)
Russian grunt gets asked if his tank is in good working order, tells his boss yes as he doesn't want to be punished. He then tells his boss all the tanks are working fine, and so on.
It's like this the whole way through the Russian military, right to the top.
Half of them probably genuinely believe what they're being told and the other half know it's rubbish but don't want to tell their superior that things are shit.