Nottingham Serious Incident (5 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

I maybe pressed the wrong emoji sorry to annoy

Stick to your guns, man!

 

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[napolimp]

No it doesn't. You completely missed the point. I couldn't care less about his race religion sexuality or anything else, so please understand me and don't try to label it that way. I specifically picked upon the moronic racism before any details given and said about not wanting a racist row, my issue is with the press and not the lack of consistency, if you can't see that then you're picking a needless fight simply because you choose to see it that way.

Really disappointed in skybluepete for 'liking' it too, who I would have thought had seen enough of my posts and opinions to know how wide of the mark that is.

Am I missing the point? Because it sounds like you're saying there's a mainstream media conspiracy to cover up the persons ethnicity, and you think it should be public information immediately.

 

[rob9872]

Am I missing the point? Because it sounds like you're saying there's a mainstream media conspiracy to cover up the persons ethnicity, and you think it should be public information immediately.

Not a conspiracy and I don't think it should matter or be informed whether its a PoC or not but I genuinely think it's fear of backlash, in contrast to when it isn't and they're much quicker to point that out and quell any suggestions.

I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time just how I see it.

 

[napolimp]

Not a conspiracy and I don't think it should matter or be informed whether its a PoC or not but I genuinely think it's fear of backlash, in contrast to when it isn't and they're much quicker to point that out and quell any suggestions.

I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time just how I see it.

You mentioned "right wing nutjob" when making your point, not an ethnicity, is it?

 

[rob9872]

To be clear I've never known a right wing nutjob like anders brevik not to be white although of course they may exist.

I'm not sure if you're genuinely asking or trying to trip me up like a politician into something not said or implied, but I dont want this thread to be hijacked into something its not meant to be and should be about the incident and the families.

My last post on this one, so feel free to pull apart and suit whatever it is you want.

 

[napolimp]

To be clear I've never known a right wing nutjob like anders brevik not to be white although of course they may exist.

I'm not sure if you're genuinely asking or trying to trip me up like a politician into something not said or implied, but I dont want this thread to be hijacked into something its not meant to be and should be about the incident and the families.

My last post on this one, so feel free to pull apart and suit whatever it is you want.

No need, you've done a fine job of tripping yourself up.

 

[SBT]

Not a conspiracy and I don't think it should matter or be informed whether its a PoC or not but I genuinely think it's fear of backlash, in contrast to when it isn't and they're much quicker to point that out and quell any suggestions.

I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time just how I see it.

It’s just a nonsensical argument - if you seriously believe that media organisations try to play things down when a non-white person is accused of a crime like this, I can only assume you’re watching the news with very different expectations and preconceptions from my own.

 

[oscillatewildly]

You start with almost understanding that maybe mental health issues meant he needed help and end with the worst kind of medieval approach to vengeful justice

Maybe things went wrong after we totally threw out any medieval approach to justice?
Right, meet me on the common at dawn for some archery practice. Last one there's a smelly pig's bladder.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Maybe things went wrong after we totally threw out any medieval approach to justice?
Right, meet me on the common at dawn for some archery practice. Last one there's a smelly pig's bladder.

Bring your duelling pistol

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Maybe things went wrong after we totally threw out any medieval approach to justice?
Right, meet me on the common at dawn for some archery practice. Last one there's a smelly pig's bladder.

 

[Nick]

"Manslaughter"

Yet was involved in multiple incidents before going on a rampage.

So if he wasn't capable of controlling himself, who from the authorities is going down for murder for him being on the streets in the first place?

 

[skybluetony176]

"Manslaughter"

Yet was involved in multiple incidents before going on a rampage.

So if he wasn't capable of controlling himself, who from the authorities is going down for murder for him being on the streets in the first place?

You ain’t going to like the answer but the people who have starved the NHS, mental health services, police and prison services of cash the last 14 years forcing cuts in services which in all honesty is amazing that there isn’t more cases like this as so many people with mental health issues fall through the cracks.

 

[rob9872]

You ain’t going to like the answer but the people who have starved the NHS, mental health services, police and prison services of cash the last 14 years forcing cuts in services which in all honesty is amazing that there isn’t more cases like this as so many people with mental health issues fall through the cracks.

Ffs nutter goes crazy and Tony still makes it political. At least you're consistent.

 

[Nick]

You ain’t going to like the answer but the people who have starved the NHS, mental health services, police and prison services of cash the last 14 years forcing cuts in services which in all honesty is amazing that there isn’t more cases like this as so many people with mental health issues fall through the cracks.

Hardly fell through the cracks, did he?

Somebody should be doing time for murder, if he was signed off as well then whoever did it should be.

If he was told to be sectioned and he didn't, if he didn't take meds. It's murder.

There's no excuse.

 

[skybluetony176]

Ffs nutter goes crazy and Tony still makes it political. At least you're consistent.

The guy has paranoid schizophrenia which is a treatable illness. The fact is mental health services has had 20% (IIRC) cut to its budget under austerity. That forced other services to pick up the difference. That’s includes the police who had their own cuts including 10000 officers to deal with, the NHS who had cuts in real terms and the prison service which had cuts and now has overcrowded prisons not least due to taking up slack from cuts to mental health services. I’m not making it anything, those just happen to be the facts and austerity was a political choice. A failed one at that. However you want to measure it whether that’s on a spread sheet looking at numbers as it grew the debt both in terms of monetary and GDP and in terms of services as it turns out it’s far far cheaper to make sure people get healthcare in the community rather than bed blocking and cell blocking.

 

[Nick]

The guy has paranoid schizophrenia which is a treatable illness. The fact is mental health services has had 20% (IIRC) cut to its budget under austerity. That forced other services to pick up the difference. That’s includes the police who had their own cuts including 10000 officers to deal with, the NHS who had cuts in real terms and the prison service which had cuts and now has overcrowded prisons not least due to taking up slack from cuts to mental health services. I’m not making it anything, those just happen to be the facts and austerity was a political choice. A failed one at that. However you want to measure it whether that’s on a spread sheet looking at numbers as it grew the debt both in terms of monetary and GDP and in terms of services as it turns out it’s far far cheaper to make sure people get healthcare in the community rather than bed blocking and cell blocking.

Ok so if he's stopped taking his meds it should be murder.

If somebody has stopped his meds, get them in the dock.

There's no excuse.

 

[skybluetony176]

Hardly fell through the cracks, did he?

Somebody should be doing time for murder, if he was signed off as well then whoever did it should be.

If he was told to be sectioned and he didn't, if he didn't take meds. It's murder.

There's no excuse.

Given he killed 3 people I don’t feel your argument stacks up. He most definitely fell through the cracks. Might this have happened anyway? We’ll never know for sure will we but the facts are people with mental health issues bed block and cell block. Denying undeniable facts ain’t going to stop incidents like this from happening.

 

[Nick]

Given he killed 3 people I don’t feel your argument stacks up. He most definitely fell through the cracks. Might this have happened anyway? We’ll never know for sure will we but the facts are people with mental health issues bed block and cell block. Denying undeniable facts ain’t going to stop incidents like this from happening.

Yes so who decided he didn't need treating, who discharged him, who completely ignored the previous incidents?

If he's stopped taking his meds, he should be tried for murder.

If somebody signed him off as fine, they need to be in the dock.

It's simple.

 

[skybluetony176]

Ok so if he's stopped taking his meds it should be murder.

If somebody has stopped his meds, get them in the dock.

There's no excuse.

This is exactly why you have care in the community, it monitors things like meds, it identifies things like flare ups in the condition that leads to incidents like this with or without meds leading them to be committed for their own and others sake. Mental health is not the black and white issue you’re trying to make it out to be. Are you seriously suggesting that such dramatic cuts to mental health services doesn’t effect people with mental health issues.

 

[Nick]

This is exactly why you have care in the community, it monitors things like meds, it identifies things like flare ups in the condition that leads to incidents like this with or without meds leading them to be committed for their own and others sake. Mental health is not the black and white issue you’re trying to make it out to be. Are you seriously suggesting that such dramatic cuts to mental health services doesn’t effect people with mental health issues.

As I said, if it was decided he didn't need treatment then see who's signature is on it and get them in the dock.

It is as black or white, he had received treatment, he had been sectioned. It's not as if both him and the authorities didn't know about his condition and they only realised after the attack.

If it turns out he wasn't taking his meds. It's a murder charge.

95% of murderers have mental issues. It's not an excuse.

A bullet in his head and do everybody a favour.

 

[rob9872]

If fruit pastels reduced a standard tube from 14 to 13 Tony would blame the cut on the Tories.

 

[Nick]

He's also pleaded guilty to attempted murder. So he's saying he tried to kill the people who are alive but the ones he killed aren't his fault.

He also called his brother to tell him to get the family out of the country, he knew what he had done.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

If fruit pastels reduced a standard tube from 14 to 13 Tony would blame the cut on the Tories.

That would be free market economics which lies at the heart of tory policy and philosophy. They support big business and freedom for them to choose and avoid regulating companies. So indirectly it would be the tory's who would play a big part in the reason/cause.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Given he killed 3 people I don’t feel your argument stacks up. He most definitely fell through the cracks. Might this have happened anyway? We’ll never know for sure will we but the facts are people with mental health issues bed block and cell block. Denying undeniable facts ain’t going to stop incidents like this from happening.

This man violently murdered three people, it’s his fault and his fault alone. Taking the 'mental health services have been slashed' to try and win a political argument is pathetic. We all know things are stretched, but it's pretty clear from his records he was never interested in engaging with the support that was given to him. He certainly got a lot more than most people, some of whom would be crying out for that kind of help. This almost sympathy with him is beyond weird. As is the charge of manslaughter. It isn't 'diminished responsibility' if you refuse to take your medication or engage with the mental health services. If anything it should be the other way around.

'Let's just put it down to a mental health issue, blame anything but the criminal, and sweep it under the carpet' doesn't sit right with me at all. The BBC news headlines and this thread would look a lot different in that case, as would your comments. No doubt you wouldn't be so quick to blame someone else.

He should never walk the streets again, and hopefully appropriate justice is given for the sake of the victims families.

 

[skybluetony176]

This man violently murdered three people, it’s his fault and his fault alone. Taking the 'mental health services have been slashed' to try and win a political argument is pathetic. We all know things are stretched, but it's pretty clear from his records he was never interested in engaging with the support that was given to him. He certainly got a lot more than most people, some of whom would be crying out for that kind of help. This almost sympathy with him is beyond weird. As is the charge of manslaughter. It isn't 'diminished responsibility' if you refuse to take your medication or engage with the mental health services. If anything it should be the other way around.

'Let's just put it down to a mental health issue, blame anything but the criminal, and sweep it under the carpet' doesn't sit right with me at all.. The BBC news headlines and this thread would look a lot different in that case, as would your comments. No doubt you wouldn't be so quick to blame someone else.

He should never walk the streets again, and hopefully appropriate justice is given for the sake of the victims families.

There was a warrant out for his arrest for months and the police never pursued it, it was even for assaulting a police officer. Not the sort of thing the police let slide. Are you seriously suggesting the political decision to cut police budgets and take 10,000 officers of the streets didn’t contribute to him still being on the street?

He is a paranoid schizophrenic, a condition that’s almost always treatable. Are you seriously suggesting that the political decision to cut mental health services and lumber the NHS with cuts in all but name didn’t affect the treatment, or the lack of opportunity to treat him?

 

[Nick]

There was a warrant out for his arrest for months and the police never pursued it, it was even for assaulting a police officer. Not the sort of thing the police let slide. Are you seriously suggesting the political decision to cut police budgets and take 10,000 officers of the streets didn’t contribute to him still being on the street?

He is a paranoid schizophrenic, a condition that’s almost always treatable. Are you seriously suggesting that the political decision to cut mental health services and lumber the NHS with cuts in all but name didn’t affect the treatment, or the lack of opportunity to treat him?

It's embarrassing how you can only see things based on your politics.

Can't be his fault at all. Must be an MP.

Did he himself pursue further help for his condition? If he didn't, it's murder.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It's embarrassing how you can only see things based on your politics.

Can't be his fault at all. Must be an MP.

Did he himself pursue further help for his condition? If he didn't, it's murder.

I can’t believe manslaughter has been accepted
Probably as the sentence will be significant
Parents still struggling with life on bbc news this morning. Mum a doctor still not back at work

 

[SBT]

Race war has entered the chat!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

There was a warrant out for his arrest for months and the police never pursued it, it was even for assaulting a police officer. Not the sort of thing the police let slide. Are you seriously suggesting the political decision to cut police budgets and take 10,000 officers of the streets didn’t contribute to him still being on the street?

He is a paranoid schizophrenic, a condition that’s almost always treatable. Are you seriously suggesting that the political decision to cut mental health services and lumber the NHS with cuts in all but name didn’t affect the treatment, or the lack of opportunity to treat him?

No. It doesn't matter how many police officers or NHS budget cuts there are. It's irrelevant to blame someone else in this circumstance as he refused to take the medication. That's on him. He then violently murdered three people.

You are an absolute embarrassment.

 

[Nick]

To confirm. If somebody is on the run from police and they commit a crime. It isn't their fault, it's because of police cuts?

 

[skybluetony176]

To confirm. If somebody is on the run from police and they commit a crime. It isn't their fault, it's because of police cuts?

On the run? It was Nottingham police who issued the warrant, he never left Nottingham. Maybe you have a different definition of being on the run .

 

[Nick]

On the run? It was Nottingham police who issued the warrant, he never left Nottingham. Maybe you have a different definition of being on the run .

That's a yes then.

Very weird.

 

[Nick]

Will apparently cost about 275k a year for him in ashworth. Just kill the c**t.

 

[Grendel]

The guy has paranoid schizophrenia which is a treatable illness. The fact is mental health services has had 20% (IIRC) cut to its budget under austerity. That forced other services to pick up the difference. That’s includes the police who had their own cuts including 10000 officers to deal with, the NHS who had cuts in real terms and the prison service which had cuts and now has overcrowded prisons not least due to taking up slack from cuts to mental health services. I’m not making it anything, those just happen to be the facts and austerity was a political choice. A failed one at that. However you want to measure it whether that’s on a spread sheet looking at numbers as it grew the debt both in terms of monetary and GDP and in terms of services as it turns out it’s far far cheaper to make sure people get healthcare in the community rather than bed blocking and cell blocking.

There was an arrest warrant against him and he refused his medication

 

[Nick]

There was an arrest warrant against him and he refused his medication

Not his fault.