Racism (10 Viewers)

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Let me be quite plain i abhor discrimination of any sort but i find the report from the Society of Black Lawyers simplistic, divisive, arrogant and unrealistic. But the issue needs to be dealt with certainly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20229332

Their plan has some merit certainly in so far as it raises the issue further but some of it just wouldnt work.



The plan calls for:
  • a minimum six to nine-month ban for racial abuse, rising to a five-year ban for a third offence would hope it never got to 3rd offence but by why limit it, and it is likely to tie up the authorities and courts in long legal process centering around proof. BUT it must be addressed
  • any fines going directly to Kick It Out to fund grassroots anti-racism initiatives nice idea but very little actually gets to the level at which i coach. Initiatives like the respect campaign the clubs have to contribute to buy equipment themselves. More likely the money would be lost in policing, monitoring and legal process
  • the creation of representative associations for black players, managers and coaches isnt that divisive and dare i say it racist ? a player is a player not a black, pink white or red one ! Perhaps i am seeing it wrongly but i dont view a person by the colour of their skin..... isnt that the point ?
  • guidance for referees to send off players using racist abuse and the power to call off games where the crowd is using such abuse surely the refs have powers to deal with such behaviour already and have to actually witness/hear it to be able to act. As for calling games off there are all sorts of issues involved in that, not least of which would be public safety and policing. Prosecute the culprits certainly but penalise the large majority that dont promote or foster racism why ?
  • a 20% quota at all levels of the FA, PFA, clubs as well as football agents and referees from what i understand there is 9% ethnic minorities in this country (not all black) so why 20% quota. Just a thought how many white lawyers will be in the society of black lawyers? how many non black players would be in a black PFA. Better still what is black? is it a minimum shade is it by origin or birth is it actually black or some shade of brown?
  • racial abuse to be a matter of gross misconduct incorporated into players' contracts surely most contracts of employment refer to equality laws ? Misconduct is misconduct and having the power wont work unless there is a will to use it. Would Suarez be sacked by Liverpool, hell Terry didnt even lose the captaincy!
  • clubs to invest in the personal education of all players, including university or college education should be the case but not just for racism..... what about disability, gender, sexuality, religion etc What about the way we refer to other nations, Scottish, Irish, French, German, American etc etc ? what are the limits to this where do you draw a line ..... do you draw a line?
  • recording referees and assistants during matches to pick up any possible abuse by players. wont work though will it because the officials cant be next to every player every second of the game, so we are back to one word against another.
  • a system for reporting racial incidents to be set up with details of such incidents, both on and off the pitch, published each year isnt this what the County and National FA is for ? Take it seriously dont make more bureaucracy that overlaps. Are we not just asking for the powers that be to take it seriously and to use the powers they have, not create something that divides still further?
  • who gets to fight the day in court ? who seems to be making a name for themselves by so called positive discrimination and seperate organisations? why create further discrimination and to what purpose? Sorry i am a little cynical because it detracts from the points i am making
Discrimination is wrong a lawyer is just a lawyer ...... not a "black" one.

Discrimination has no one direction it isnt just "white" calling "black" it happens in reverse for example ( experienced it in my playing days, have seen it in the work place and no i didnt accept it from which ever direction it came) it happens "black" to "black" or "white to white". Dont divide further, unite to fight it

positive discrimination is still discrimination .......... it isnt judging someone simply on their merits (where colour of skin is not seen)

to create a seperate niche of society or the game should never be the objective.

it is the intent that makes it a crime. where does it stop and become a crime?

havent we created enough divides in our country/society without creating more?

should we not see the person not the colour, be inclusive not seek to exclude ?

Isnt this an issue of education and not tolerating all forms of discrimination?

kick racism out .......... dont hide behind ideals, sound bites and clever words to actually create more under another name.

Thoughts anyone ?
 

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We'll_live_and_die

Super Moderator
I have real issues with anti racism groups representing specific races.

•the creation of representative associations for black players, managers and coaches
Society of Black Lawyers

These two real piss me off and to be honest I have racist thoughts as a result.

By having seperate groups like this they stir a racist hatred in people that would not normally have such feelings, which can only make things worse.

My blood is boiling to be honest. I really hate this kind of thing.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
it polarises thought Rich.......... people are placed in one camp or another, not because of their thoughts, their hearts, their principles or by choice but by their skin colour ............ i just can not see how that helps...... i can not see how that isnt about race
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
I really don't get this talk about a separate pfa for black players. It's so ridiculous. Next they'll be asking for stands to have separate areas for white and black people. Their intentions may be for, what they think, is the good of the sport. But all it will do is cause divisions and, probably, more racism.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Agree with your comments Oldskyblue.

I also have a bit of a problem with things like the MOBO's too.

We need to try and make sure there is no racism not create quota's where black people have to have representation simply because they are black.
 

Nick

Administrator
It is a bit like the Black Police Officer Union or whatever it is.

If people want to be treated equally then they shouldn't be trying to branch off and be seperate from everybody else.

I see myself as a city fan for example, I don't want to branch off and make something for white people only it would just alienate the other sections.

There is nothing worse than saying "we are doing this to prevent racism, but you can only join if you are white or black". Just have one big PFA for everybody.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Its a devisive move and as I said when Jason Roberts started his boycott a couple of weeks back is likely to undo all the great work of the last 30-40 years .Racism is absolutely abhorent like many other forms of abuse .To think that they can't improve things further through the mainstream i think is naive and could be percieved as a reverse form of racism almost self stigmatising .If the John Terry incident is really whats behind this I can't believe there is no other method of representation to the FA for improvement of its processes and censures.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
It's this stance by the black community that they are the only ones who get 'abuse', or that racism against them is somehow the worst kind, that annoys me. *All* forms of genuine racism are equally deplorable, but certain people just don't get it.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
And that's what we need to focus on, racism itself from within and from top to bottom, not create quota's etc. I have no problem with the Kick it Out campaign, I think that is a good thing.

Would have a problem with it though if it was just for black players only.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Same happened to Terry though didn't it.

People immediately came out and said he was guilty and called for his captain's armband from the England team before any trial or hearing.
 

scroobiustom

New Member
Same happened to Terry though didn't it.

People immediately came out and said he was guilty and called for his captain's armband from the England team before any trial or hearing.

Do you not think that the fact Terry was seen on video mouthing what he did, helped convict him pre-trial though?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
I would like someone to explain the merits of what they propose...... to explain why it is the only and right way forward.... why seperation not integration is the way forward. I suspect one of the justifications would be that black players dont have a voice or influence in the game. Surely what has gone on disproves that..... everyone is talking about it but there is no "black" PFA ......... The issue is is forefront with the FA and is being put before EUFA and FIFA......... people of all colours are championing the cause, saying no more racism, taking action. Why the need for a seperate "black" organisation that is actually on the fringes of the real power. Why create polarisation ?

on a slightly different thought ............ Chelsea vs Man Utd 2nd game ........ isnt it abusive to have thousands of i assume Chelsea fans chanting at the referee "who's the racist in the black" for minutes on end. Certainly i would be very offended to be called a racist......... if i am offended then that constitutes abuse .......in that case a crime is committed........... just a thought, but where does it stop?.

this isnt "black" (whatever that is) against the rest ............. it is all right minded people, ordinary people, against discrimination in its many forms ...........doesnt matter what their damn colour is, certainly that fight should not be distinguished by an accident of birth or origin
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
yes i know BSB but just pointing at double standards really
 

WillieStanley

New Member
Honestly the whole racism thing is becoming an absolute joke, I think its starting to piss everyone off now..... First of all the Suarez incident, Im not a fan of Suarez at all but I don't think he intended to racially insult Patrice Evra. I mean obviously he called him "negreto" but that means something totally different in his native Uruguayan language, of course he shouldn't have said it but he hardly meant offence by it. Secondly, I bet you that you could ask any footballer that has ever played alongside John Terry or any person that has ever known him and they'll tell you that hes not a racist, thats why Ashley Cole stood up for him in court. Calling Ferdinand a "black c-unit" is a DESCRIPTION not racist terminology. Thats like saying that its wrong to call somebody a bald c-unit or a fat c-unit, but because he used the word "black" its automatically portrayed as racist. Ferdinand called Terry a c-unit 11 TIMES in that game, but because Terry used "black" in front of it, he'll now be branded a racist for the rest of his life. The Clattenburg scenario is whats really wound me up though. Apparently what was said was "he couldn't give a monkeys" and Mikel portrayed that as racism. I mean for feck sake, if thats not a joke then I don't know what is! The referees are there to kick racism out of the game, why would they use racist language, it just doesnt add up? As for the whole boycotting the kick it out campaign, how many racist slurrs have any of you heard at a football game in England since the 1980's? Other than that muppet who made monkey chants at Welbeck, ive certainly never seen it at Highfield road, the Ricoh or anywhere else in the country, so why are Jason Roberts and all the rest of them claiming that the FA aren't doing enough? Its all for a major headline story and a bit of extra cash I say, its really winding me up. Nobody condones racism, but now its just becoming a joke :(:(:(:mad:

I'd also like to say calling someone fat or bald in an aggressive or abusive way IS wrong.
 

ShInnbob

New Member
I think they need to take a step back and think about whether this is actually helping anything. Surely we have come a long way already if you compare the situation here to the one that greeted the Englad U21 players in Serbia?

Segregation wont help - as stated above that only increases the problems. A 'racist' movement to battle racism some may say.

And Clattenburg. I cant fault him and I dont think anyone thinks he said anything out of line. Decision making aside I am amazed how tolerant referees in this country are. The abuse from players, staff and fans seems to be increasing. Its called respect and a lot of staff and players have seem to have lost sight of it. Should send all players in this country to watch a rugby match and see the respect that the referee commands.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
I've just heard spurs are going to be investigated for racist chanting of "yiddo". That's not a joke either.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
Isn't Yiddo the word Spurs fans use for themselves?

Supporters of Tottenham Hotspurshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C. adopted the nickname "Yid" (or "Yiddo") and often identify as "Yid Armyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yid_Army". Used as a badge of pride by the supporters of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. in support of the Jewish communities based near to the North London football club

That's why I put it isn't a joke Otis. I'm starting to feel this whole thing might be going too far now!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
But surely that is a term of endearment isn't it?

Should West Brom stop calling themselves the Baggies in case it upsets those wearing bell bottom trousers?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Just read that and well ... fook me! :facepalm:

What a joke these Society of Black Lawyers seem to be. They seem to be a bunch of clowns.

Why do we have to have a Society of Black Lawyers anyway? Would a Society of White Lawyers be acceptable? Course not. Why not just a Society of Lawyers. They can still deal with racism on all fronts. You don't have to be a black lawyer to fight racsim.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
But surely that is a term of endearment isn't it?

Should West Brom stop calling themselves the Baggies in case it upsets those wearing bell bottom trousers?

This is my point. There's things happening here that could have the opposite effect to what these people are trying to achieve (and by these people, I'm not being racist!)
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
It is fine for Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock etc. to use the 'n' word when they are talking about themselves because they are black and are talking about their own kind and everyone seems to think that is acceptable.

The Spurs fans are talking about their own kind when they say the word Yid. What's the difference?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Isn't Yiddo the word Spurs fans use for themselves?

Supporters of Tottenham Hotspurshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C. adopted the nickname "Yid" (or "Yiddo") and often identify as "Yid Armyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yid_Army". Used as a badge of pride by the supporters of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. in support of the Jewish communities based near to the North London football club

It has nothing to do with pride or support of the Jewish communities in the area. They just adopted it to wind up opposition supporters who would call the Spurs lot Yids.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
They adopted to deflect from opposition fans using it not to wind them up.

In a statement, Spurs said their fans used the term as a "defence mechanism" against anti-Semitism from rivals.


Spurs has traditonally been a Jewish club though with a large Jewish following and many Jews apparently are absolutely fine with this Yid Army tag.

If black people can use the word 'Nigger' then why can't Jewish people use the word 'Yid?'
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
Any racism that is based on creed or religion is wrong and its not just black players that suffer. The problem for me is that the racism card is played in all forms of our working lives by people who are inadequate in their chosen proffesion. It is often used as a shield to hide behind rather than that person facing up to their own deficiencys. People with genuine grievances then suffer because of this. It is encumbent on us all, regardless of origin, to stand up for what is right not just to jump on the band wagon because its the flavour of the month. Sport is inclusive, not exclusive like these so call educated men would like to make it. I am not saying black players should turn the other cheek by any means but marginalizing your position only gives biggots even more ammo. Stand together and your stronger, but racism can not be used as a card to settle scores.
 

scroobiustom

New Member
I think i'm actually starting to hate football!

Race, Religion & for many years sexual orientation - will Brighton then be investigated for their "defence mechanism" chant of "does your boyfriend know your here" when opposition fans play the brighton=gay card then?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
I think i'm actually starting to hate football!

Race, Religion & for many years sexual orientation - will Brighton then be investigated for their "defence mechanism" chant of "does your boyfriend know your here" when opposition fans play the brighton=gay card then?

Don't opposition fans sing that to them? Our lot certainly have done in the past.

I think that a couple of years ago they changed homophobic chanting to be the same category as racism, so you don't really hear the 'gay chants' too much now.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
The whole things is getting rather silly though.

Let's tackle racism in the right way instead of making it all look like a laughing stock.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
They adopted to deflect from opposition fans using it not to wind them up.

In a statement, Spurs said their fans used the term as a "defence mechanism" against anti-Semitism from rivals.


Spurs has traditonally been a Jewish club though with a large Jewish following and many Jews apparently are absolutely fine with this Yid Army tag.

If black people can use the word 'Nigger' then why can't Jewish people use the word 'Yid?'

Sorry, it is what I meant really. I agree with you 100%...a lot of my family are Yi...Spurs supporters and I know a few Jewish people who support them and even refer to themselves as Yids.

I abhor racism but I find it odd that it is 'ok' for a black person to use the word 'Nigger', yet people are too scared to challenge the hypocrisy incase they offend people. I await for these lawyers to intervene and put an end to the use of 'Nigger' in music and in films.

Until we stop identifying ourselves and others in different races, then there will always be racism. We are all human beings, so we are of the same race, there is no need to start creating sub-sections.
 

coundonskyblue

New Member
Cardiff will be the next one. Their fans always refer to themselves as the sheep shaggers, no doubt that will now be racist.
 

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