skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Because they chose not to use the EU protocols like we did. Hungary used the same protocols we did to buy the Sputnik vaccine from Russia.
Brexit Benefits (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter torchomatic
- Start date
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
UK halts trade negotiations with Canada over hormones in beef ban
Talks aimed at extending an EU-era deal broke down over Britain's ban on hormone-treated meat.
www.bbc.co.uk
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
H
Hoorah, no longer will Europe force us to eat hormone infused beef,UK halts trade negotiations with Canada over hormones in beef ban
Talks aimed at extending an EU-era deal broke down over Britain's ban on hormone-treated meat.www.bbc.co.uk
JAM See
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
If the government spent as much time trying to sort out our issues as they do infighting and trying to tell us how brexit was great and what a wonderful job they're doing we wouldn't be in half this mess .
They have no interest in serving the people which is what they were elected to do. In or out, this party shouldn't be anywhere near government for another 20 years.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The Tories have never been for the man on the street. The problem is millions benefitted from rising house prices making them think they were rich so thought that the Tories benefitted them. Reality has hit home.
Remember when most thought I was a brexiteer for trying to look at both sides and stating the lies from both sides? This was even though I shipped my wife and youngest 3 kids out to France to beat Brexit.
The part I said about our contributions were desperately needed has certainly been shown to be true. It has hardly made the headlines in the UK though which has surprised me. The whole of France and most of Europe has become badly affected by the farmers protesting. It only really reached the UK in the news when Paris was brought to a standstill. But it has been going on for a bit. We have a motorway 20 minutes away. It's closed because the farmers lit fires that wrecked the road surface. It's the same right through France. It's happening right through Europe now.
Food prices are getting stupid. The cheapest I've seen a cauliflower for ages is €4.50. They go up to €10 each at times. But thel farmers get €0.70 each. Meat? Lucky to get anything for less than €10 a kilo. And now their subsidies are being taken away. Now having to pay full price for their diesel. Subsidies lost that helped the farmers sell so cheaply. And that's right through Europe.
It isn't rosy right through the EU. Both sides pumped out their chests saying 'you need me more than I need you.' It's become a shitfest on both sides.
The EU? Constantly held to ransom by Hungary. Nothing gets through because they use their veto on everything. High unemployment and low wages. Even the price of used cars are now extortionate. Bought the wife one last summer. 2k max in the UK. I had to pay €7,500 for a 17 year old car. Can't remember the last time we went to a supermarket and the bill was less than €200.
But wine and beer very cheap still
The better weather means lower heating bills. Our equivalent of council tax €550 on a house that would be thousands in the UK. Bought a lovely home with over an acre of land plus 2 parcels of woodland for less than a parking space in London. My daughter and her partner have found a nice 4 bed home for €55,000 but know they can do better so the search continues. Not being saddled with a massive debt that takes most of your working life to pay off for somewhere to live pays for the other high costs. You show me someone who says it's only been a shitfest for one side and I'll show you a liar.
Swings and roundabouts. I said both sides would come to their senses eventually. Hopefully I was right.
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
If only there were people telling you it would be a massive cock up hey
Astute
Well-Known Member
I just wish people could see both sides of the story. But most never will. They are so entrenched in their thoughts that they will never look at or consider the other side.
The world is run by idiots who are only interested in what benefits themselves. The vast majority of people in the world suffer the consequences of their actions.
Astute
Well-Known Member
TV program?
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
I’ve been saying this for years, they spend all their time working out how best to fool and mislead the people with absolutely no effort spent on how best to help them.
A government that’s wholly made up of self serving individuals completely without empathy.
Shameful
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
No I think you’re absolutely right on not seeing both sides of the story, it’s a huge problem with the world today especially for example in the US, but UK too. It doesn’t matter what anyone does it’s either “that’s my team so he’s right and that’s your team so he’s wrong”.
That ultimately massively undermines democracy because the real key issues need to be solved across the aisle, but there’s no bi-partisanship at all and we just have this weird political tribalism which stops any progress on key issues.
Democracy thrives on debate, discussion and compromise
I think it’s a personal thing for a lot of people too though - just take a look at some of the recent threads on here where there’s a mere suggestion people might have been in the wrong or biased at some point. Literally can’t even handle the possibility. How are people like they going to agree with anything that a political party they haven’t historically voted for suggests, or even people in the middle?
But it’s not a mistake. Historically when class divides get a bit spicey, it’s either time to unite against a common enemy, or time to divide and conquer
Astute
Well-Known Member
I'm now at my happiest ever. Where we live is like 40 years or more ago in the UK where everyone helps everyone. We never lock our doors. No need to. Everyone's against the government but know there's nothing better on the other sides. Most people grow their own food and just leave bags of what they don't need to neighbours without announcing it. Got a problem? The community are there to help whatever. We as outsiders couldn't have been made more welcome. It's community spirit that makes life so much better. Those with plenty are seen the same as those without. No class wars. But all with the same view of all politicians are untrustworthy.
The UK is dog eat dog. Lack of community spirit these days. Too many people looking down at others. Maybe a byproduct of too many Tory governments and a Labour government in the middle that styled itself on the Tories. Then to think that the UK is one of the best places in the world to live. Doesn't say a lot for the rest of the world.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Pretty sure if I left my apartment unlocked we'd be robbed within the hour - can still get a cauliflower for less than €2 though.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Id still vote leave if I was asked again
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Same last week. Problem was it was all cauli and no flower and it’s been like that for months. By the time we took all the leaves off there was fuck all there, barely 2 portions. We have to buy 2 as a family of four. In the good old days we used to be able to use half on a Saturday in an aloo gobi and have plenty left over for the Sunday roast. Shrinkflation. Even if you get the larger more expensive ones from Sainsbury’s or Tescos they ain’t a lot bigger. I guarantee when you buy a cauliflower on the continent pound for pound it will be cheaper than a cauliflower in the UK.
Project caulifear
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
why’s that then, because JLR made a buck or two?
or was it one of the other countless incredible benefits we’ve seen?
Astute
Well-Known Member
The French cities are on a par with cities in the UK.
Maybe a mini slice of heaven but it comes with a cost. Our daughter is moving 2 hours to live with her boyfriend as jobs are limited here. Have a medical emergency? Nearest hospital is nearly an hour away. Ambulance? As long as there is a private one available you might get one. At night you can forget it. Shopping? We have a supermarket 10 minutes away but the prices would make your eyes water. 45 minutes away for prices that are only high. Takeaway? Other than our local bar just over 5 minutes away you can't get one.
If you don't need to work, are fit and healthy and are able to drive the benefits outweigh all the drawbacks.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I kept swinging both ways. But you won't look at the ones afterwards because they don't say what you want them to.
The Tories have never been for the man on the street. The problem is millions benefitted from rising house prices making them think they were rich so thought that the Tories benefitted them. Reality has hit home.
Remember when most thought I was a brexiteer for trying to look at both sides and stating the lies from both sides? This was even though I shipped my wife and youngest 3 kids out to France to beat Brexit.
The part I said about our contributions were desperately needed has certainly been shown to be true. It has hardly made the headlines in the UK though which has surprised me. The whole of France and most of Europe has become badly affected by the farmers protesting. It only really reached the UK in the news when Paris was brought to a standstill. But it has been going on for a bit. We have a motorway 20 minutes away. It's closed because the farmers lit fires that wrecked the road surface. It's the same right through France. It's happening right through Europe now.
Food prices are getting stupid. The cheapest I've seen a cauliflower for ages is €4.50. They go up to €10 each at times. But thel farmers get €0.70 each. Meat? Lucky to get anything for less than €10 a kilo. And now their subsidies are being taken away. Now having to pay full price for their diesel. Subsidies lost that helped the farmers sell so cheaply. And that's right through Europe.
It isn't rosy right through the EU. Both sides pumped out their chests saying 'you need me more than I need you.' It's become a shitfest on both sides.
The EU? Constantly held to ransom by Hungary. Nothing gets through because they use their veto on everything. High unemployment and low wages. Even the price of used cars are now extortionate. Bought the wife one last summer. 2k max in the UK. I had to pay €7,500 for a 17 year old car. Can't remember the last time we went to a supermarket and the bill was less than €200.
But wine and beer very cheap still
You show me someone who says it's only been a shitfest for one side and I'll show you a liar.
Swings and roundabouts. I said both sides would come to their senses eventually. Hopefully I was right.
As you say hopefully both sides will come together to find a better longer term trade solution with frictions reduced. Germany in particular might well be keen to improve this as they’d put a lot of their trade eggs in chinas basket
Things like the Ukraine war highlight the importance of having a close amicable relationship
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You said "Remember when most thought I was a brexiteer". Well, that's why, when you give unequivocal answers about 'I am voting leave' 'I want out of the EU'. That's why! Don't try and spin it as people have somehow unfairly tarnished you, just own it! You're not alone in changing your mind, but others don't need the arrogance suggesting you can look objectively while others can't.
You also come up with black and white yourself, such as this:
You're putting others in pockets.
Changed your mind, but if it suits to deny, deny!
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Put into pockets?
For my children and the way things were going being out of the EU would have benefitted them. This is true still. Work all your life to pay for a house. And that's if you can get a mortgage. Neither Labour or the Tories saw enough houses being built. Both saw council house sales go through the roof. I feel sorry for the younger generations.
The lies that come from both sides made it impossible to work out what was best. Concentrate on one side and you knew which side you would vote. But when you started looking at the details if you could ignore the housing shortages and the underfunded schools, hospitals crowded roads and much more then remain was the best bet.
It's like you will never consider the damage Hungary is now doing to the EU. The 1 vote veto was supposed to be a good thing. That was another problem I got shouted down for. All the countries shouldn't be held to ransom but there again working out a better formula would be impossible.
Remain edged it for me but my younger children's future? They were better off out of the UK whichever way the vote went. Those with their own home are better off with remain. Those coming up to the age of purchasing a home better off out for affordability.
There should have been a halfway agreement for FOM. Move if you have a job to go to or funds to keep yourself. But it's become a shitfest here. Ask our Italian resident. Strangely enough he never mentions it. Freedom of movement is creating major problems but we love to ignore it.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Italy’s main problem is corruption which has long been a problem since the EU and has nothing to do with the EU. There’s also large numbers of refugees, of course, which has nothing to do with the EU.
After Brexit, even the most eurosceptic politicians have abandoned calls to leave the Euro
As I’ve said before, as an EU citizen to get residency and access healthcare here you need to have a job that pays over a certain amount. This option was available to the UK but it didn’t bother to implement it.
The truth is that outside of the UK no one gives a shit about Brexit these days.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The problem with the referendum was it was too vague. There should have a preference vote on how we left the EU. Stay in the EEA and single market or a hard Brexit. At the end of the day no one campaigned for a hard brexit. Nigel Ferage and therefore UKIP and the unofficial leave campaign campaigned for a Norway and there’s an endless loop of him saying this at any occasion he could get in front of a camera if you want to see it for yourself and Daniel Hannan who was on the committee for the official leave campaign is on the record saying the day before we went to the polls “absolutely no one is talking about leaving the single market”, ie doing a Norway. Within a matter of hours of the result being known they’d all changed their minds quickly coining the phrase out means out. They were allowed to do that because the question was too vague.
So the point I’m making is when we go to the polls again regarding our relationship with the EU the question should be do we want to rejoin the single market. With a second question of in the event of a yes vote should we join the EEA or rejoin the EU as a full member. I also think there should be pre referendum negotiations on exactly what rejoining the EU will look like. We left the EU with a strong footing in the EU not least because we had a veto on joining the Euro. Technically new members don’t have that veto which potentially means that brexits only legacies will be uniting Ireland/breaking up the union and swapping the pound for the euro. I would hope that the EU will be accommodating and agree for us to rejoin on the same terms that we left however I wouldn’t bank on it while people like Orban has a say in it.
The other thing that will be interesting with a change of government is will the details of the Russia report finally come out. Will we need a second investigation into Russian interference with a view to leaving no stone unturned regardless of who that incriminates. Cough cough Boris lad cough cough.
So the point I’m making is when we go to the polls again regarding our relationship with the EU the question should be do we want to rejoin the single market. With a second question of in the event of a yes vote should we join the EEA or rejoin the EU as a full member. I also think there should be pre referendum negotiations on exactly what rejoining the EU will look like. We left the EU with a strong footing in the EU not least because we had a veto on joining the Euro. Technically new members don’t have that veto which potentially means that brexits only legacies will be uniting Ireland/breaking up the union and swapping the pound for the euro. I would hope that the EU will be accommodating and agree for us to rejoin on the same terms that we left however I wouldn’t bank on it while people like Orban has a say in it.
The other thing that will be interesting with a change of government is will the details of the Russia report finally come out. Will we need a second investigation into Russian interference with a view to leaving no stone unturned regardless of who that incriminates. Cough cough Boris lad cough cough.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
With the possible exception of Ireland.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
True but from a wider EU perspective it’s in the past now.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oddly no. Strangely my objection has always been left leaning rather than right and based on anti federalist ideology which is at the heart of the EU.
I’m not in the slightest bit interested in immigration or the other aspects that the right fixate on
It’s not a co-incidence the likes of Benn, Foot and their modern day equivalents of Corbyn and McDonnell have always opposed EU integration .
It’s an ideology which benefits the rich members and exploits the poorest.
All that said the real issue was after the referendum it should have been accepted that the country was split and - even though I was opposed to it - we should have had politicians honest enough to admit it and adopted a compromised Norway style arrangement. This would have allowed the opportunity in future elections for parties to campaign for further departure or more integration - the polarisation caused the outcome
Astute
Well-Known Member
So the problems being caused by the large amount of refugees is nothing to do with the EU?
It has been made worse by FoM. The economic migrants knew once in mainland Europe they could get where they want. But as you well know it is now causing major problems for the countries where they land. Yet FoM is used as only a good thing.
What do you think of Hungary being close to Russia and using their veto on just about everything? The veto was supposed to be nothing but a good thing.
What's your view on farmers right through Europe protesting about losing most of their handouts? With us being one if the major funders it just coincides with us leaving. But I was also supposed to be wrong about this also.
How about countries around Europe wanting better deals with the UK? The only ones that don't want them are those running the EU. They don't want their project to get into danger. This also wasn't supposed to happen.
Germany invites UK to reach improved Brexit trading deal
Finance minister offers standing invitation to ‘intensify your trade relationship to the EU’
Yet if you turn a blind eye to these points and many more Brexit was a disaster to the UK and just a blip to Europe.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
And then fucked off to France to beat Brexit
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