Do you want to discuss boring politics? (215 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
A simple apology would probably put this to bed.
But of course they're doubling down and useful idiot Chris Philp is out doing the rounds this morning with the line that it wasn't Sunak's fault it was Starmer's. Even though Brianna's family have asked Sunak to apologise.
But of course they're doubling down and useful idiot Chris Philp is out doing the rounds this morning with the line that it wasn't Sunak's fault it was Starmer's. Even though Brianna's family have asked Sunak to apologise.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Perhaps he can get Major and May back as well. Oh and Truss - forgot about her
www.independent.co.uk
Rishi Sunak admits still talking to Boris Johnson as he refuses to rule out comeback
Rishi Sunak has said he still speaks to Boris Johnson “on occasion” and refused to rule out bringing the former prime minister back into the fold. Speaking to ITV, the PM said he was “proud of the work we did together” before he became one of the first in a series of ministerial departures...
www.independent.co.uk
Grendel
Well-Known Member
To be confirmed today this flagship policy is being binned
www.greenpeace.org.uk
Labour’s £28 billion green spending promise – what it is and why it matters - Greenpeace UK
Here's why £28 billion a year would make Britain better, and help Labour win.
www.greenpeace.org.uk
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oops you’d better complained to the BBC
www.bbc.co.uk
Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge - BBC News
A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
www.bbc.co.uk
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Oops you’d better complained to the BBC
Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge - BBC News
A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
That article doesn’t claim it’s being reduced to 0. Much like Sunaks refusal to back down on his comments yesterday, I’m not sure Starmer will be too bothered about a big conversation about how Labour is being fiscally restrained.
Oops you’d better complained to the BBC
Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge - BBC News
A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
You really do struggle with the English language don't you?
Yes, it's not a great look but if they can successfully spin it that it's a result of Tory mismanagement - the pledge was made before Truss and Kwasi absolutely royally fucked it for everyone - then they can probably come out of it looking OK.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Nope, but he might want to start getting concerned about his reputation.
It's increasingly hard for him to claim that there's a single thing that he stands for today that he won't change his mind on tomorrow.
That might start to resonate with voters, and you can bet it's an attack line the Tories are going hammer from now until the election.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not it seems as much as Mr Starmer who insisted on Tuesday the policy hadn’t changed - I suggest you explain the English Language to him as he seems to talk the language of cliched bollocks from bullshit land
To suggest it hasn’t changed is utterly absurd and yes Reeves has said it’s very possible it will be zero and no money will be spent if it breaches fiscal rules
It’s going to be zero
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Don’t make me tap the sign…
I don't think so. They've been trying it for years and it hasn't really had any impact at all. Remember 'Captain Hindsight', that stuck for about 5 minutes.
It's all Johnson had and it's all Sunak seemingly has, and it's not really cutting through at all.
Particularly when they are just as prone to a U turn as anyone!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Is there any evidence voters care that much about flip flopping or is it just a thing used to pin people to unpopular policy? Seems like a thing you’d bring up if you were otherwise unhappy but generally people seem pretty good at rationalising this stuff for politicians they support. I think it would take a major scandal at this point to seriously dent poll numbers, people are that sick of the Tories and the Tories are that bad at politics right now. I get the idea Starmer wants to grind them to dust and leave nothing to chance, but seems a little bit of tunnel vision. Can’t really judge until he actually starts doing stuff tho really.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oh I can read. It’s going to dropped in the manifesto - it’s off the table as a commitment
As others have said you through every debate have a binary goodie and baddie mantra. So red is good and blue is bad. If Starmer said the world was flat you’d ban round the world cruises as it had to be true.
Most left leaning people on here despise Starmer and Reeves who really are now Major and Lamont reincarnated. Schmmee has discovered the wonders of capitalism now and wants a Tory Lite government. I would not take much stall from what he says.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I can only really think of Johnson as somebody who gets away with it quite so readily. Now and again and people say fine, flexible. Over and over in quick succession and it starts to look a bit dubious. Wasn't it one of the things that held Burnham back in the leadership elections, that he tended to move with the wind a little? And Kinnock too for that matter? Blair at least changed his positions over a decade or so, rather than a matter of months.
Not saying it's the only thing that brings politicians down, but people do like decisiveness and knowing where they stand.
Blue is bad. Very fucking bad.
Red is better. How much better we'll have to wait and see. I'm willing to give them that chance.
And your comment is incredibly ironic given the dreadful things you've excused over the years from your side.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Burnhams problem was he wasn’t as left wing as Corbyn so ended up looking like another suit with Cooper and Kendall.
I agree it can become a thing, but I think people are fairly tuned out, I’m not seeing it in polling, I’d be surprised if it has a massive impact though it’s another thing depressing the base after Gaza (and everything else).
Do agree with this tho:
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
What a clown show
Even the IFS is saying it
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Even the IFS is saying it
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Would like to see the correlation between wanting to start Tavares against Maidstone and wanting Starmer to backtrack on policies just in case the Tories gain 1% in the polls
duffer
Well-Known Member
Beg to differ, I suspect it's one of the few things that might cut through.
I don't think it will stop Labour getting into power, but I suspect it will start thinning down support.
In essence, it becomes a matter of trust. If you can't trust anything he says, why bother voting for him?
In a related way, people with genuine concerns about the environment might start switching to the Green Party if they sense that there's a lack of commitment from Labour. That's certainly where I'm heading.
That might not hurt them too much in this cycle, but a centre-right Labour party in that does nothing to improve things, might find itself quickly under pressure from both a refreshed Tory party on the right and a leftish/environmental front on the left.
Don't put it past the Lib Dems to position themselves accordingly, appearing to be to the left of the Labour convinced a fair number of progressives to switch previously.
Regardless of all of this, the true deficit is that there's no real change being offered by Starmer. Wait and see is hardly a great election mantra.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think whoever it was who said he’s like someone trying to get a king vase over the finish line is right.
Lib Dem’s came from the left and gave Labour a landslide. You want the Lib Dem’s on the left. It’s when they’re on the right with the Tories and naive lefties like me vote for them that things go wrong.
The electoral calculus of it all is simple and fairly constant: people who would not vote Labour because they aren’t left wing enough aren’t the people who win elections. Just like the Tories are finding out the people who think the Tories aren’t right wing enough don’t win elections.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
There has to be a balance though. Currently he's making Blair seem a bit of a Commie!
And Blair at least laid down a vision of what to do to fix things, and we don;t really have that.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No we don’t, because to get elected hes decided it’s more harm than good. It’s frustrating as hell, but ultimately even Blair’s vision didn’t exactly turn out like the ad campaigns. It’s Labour, you know what you’re getting: public service improvements, probably tax rises, probably closer to the EU and more legislation around being nice to each other, plus a government that actually believes in climate science.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The thing is, I'm actually having doubts about that!
And that surely becomes a problem at some point? Even if you ignored the rest, when public service is falling apart around us that's surely an easy populist win to come up with some plan there? People don't like spending money on public service, but they're not keen on their hospitals falling down either.
Fuck the Tories.
Cancer waiting times in 2023 worst on record in England
Proportion starting treatment within 62 days in England drops to new low after 11 years of decline.
www.bbc.co.uk
Fuck the Tories.
Cancer waiting times in 2023 worst on record in England
Proportion starting treatment within 62 days in England drops to new low after 11 years of decline.www.bbc.co.uk
And SNP and Labour. In wales I think the figure was 55% last year.
The whole of the UK is a disgrace. While this is all happening we have consultants still striking as well. I have a bit more sympathy for junior doctors but not huge amounts. Fair play to the nurses at least