USSR invades Ukraine. (24 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s ok his answer is to surrender to US influence - a warmongering, political and morally bankrupt country with a foreign policy aimed purely at self interest.

Name me a superpower that isn’t

 

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[skybluetony176]

Can I just check. Am I still allowed to support Ukraine solely on the principle that a country has the right to defend itself from an invading country and regain its sovereign territory, so nothing to do with what the US or any one else says? I ask because that’s what I’ve been doing.

 

[PVA]

Can I just check. Am I still allowed to support Ukraine solely on the principle that a country has the right to defend itself from an invading country and regain its sovereign territory, so nothing to do with what the US or any one else says? I ask because that’s what I’ve been doing.

No you can't, because that automatically means supporting the corrupt and immoral US. So you should support the even more corrupt and immoral Russia instead.

Keep up!

 

[skybluetony176]

Shouldn’t a population always hold those in government responsible for dealing corruption in government? Me and my principals again.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Just been announced that Alexei Navalny has died in prison. Another one off Putin's hit list

 

[fernandopartridge]

No you can't, because that automatically means supporting the corrupt and immoral US. So you should support the even more corrupt and immoral Russia instead.

Keep up!

The USA is currently supporting wars in Europe and the Middle East indirectly, and directly bombing countries that it is not even at war with. It's not always good guys and bad guys, you're talking about a pair of bad guys.

 

[PVA]

The USA is currently supporting wars in Europe and the Middle East indirectly, and directly bombing countries that it is not even at war with. It's not always good guys and bad guys, you're talking about a pair of bad guys.

And Russia has literally invaded the country we are discussing. And the US is supporting said country.

So you think the Ukrainian people would be just as well off under Russian rule than they would under a Ukrainian government with Western influence?

OK.

 

[duffer]

The point is, to what end? What is the envisaged outcome?

The point is to defend the wishes of a sovereign democracy to protect its citizens and territory and stop them falling under the control of a brutal dictator.

The envisaged outcome is to force Russia out of Ukraine, or make the holding of Ukranian territory so expensive in men and material that that they choose to leave.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

The USA is currently supporting wars in Europe and the Middle East indirectly, and directly bombing countries that it is not even at war with. It's not always good guys and bad guys, you're talking about a pair of bad guys.

There are proxy wars all over the middle east and Africa. East vs West as there always have been since 1945. Russia backing one side and US the other.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just been announced that Alexei Navalny has died in prison. Another one off Putin's hit list

A brave man standing up to Putin. He even voluntarily returned to Russia after recovering in Germany from a failed state assassination attempt from Novichok, he would have understood his fate doing that yet still did it. RIP

 

[duffer]

The USA is currently supporting wars in Europe and the Middle East indirectly, and directly bombing countries that it is not even at war with. It's not always good guys and bad guys, you're talking about a pair of bad guys.

Indeed, but in this specific case there's a good guy, Ukraine, not perfect, but at least a democracy.

And a bad guy, Putin, with no respect for human rights or tolerance of dissent, even within his own country (cf., Navalny).

Just because the US (and UK) government, who indisputably do bad things elsewhere, support Ukraine, does not change the facts above, does it.

 

[PVA]

Indeed, but in this specific case there's a good guy, Ukraine, not perfect, but at least a democracy.

And a bad guy, Putin, with no respect for human rights or tolerance of dissent, even within his own country (cf., Navalny).

Just because the US (and UK) government, who indisputably do bad things elsewhere, support Ukraine, does not change the facts above, does it.

I really don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

Absolutely absurd that anyone could try and claim this war is not good vs bad. That's exactly what it is.

 

[Sick Boy]

Can I just check. Am I still allowed to support Ukraine solely on the principle that a country has the right to defend itself from an invading country and regain its sovereign territory, so nothing to do with what the US or any one else says? I ask because that’s what I’ve been doing.

Does apply to the north of Ireland as well?

 

[skybluetony176]

Does apply to the north of Ireland as well?

Ha ha ha. I knew you were going to say that. The big difference of course is the majority of the population in Northern Ireland see themselves as British and as part of the agreement of the creation of Northern Ireland and the Free State of Ireland is that Northern Ireland remains sovereign British territory. But you know this and you’re definitely bright enough to understand the difference between the situation in Ukraine and the situation in Northern Ireland.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ha ha ha. I knew you were going to say that. The big difference of course is the majority of the population in Northern Ireland see themselves as British and as part of the agreement of the creation of Northern Ireland and the Free State of Ireland is that Northern Ireland remains sovereign British territory. But you know this and you’re definitely bright enough to understand the difference between the situation in Ukraine and the situation in Northern Ireland.

In that case, surely it’s fair enough if Russians settle in the occupied territories of Ukraine and they become Russian as they’ll want to be part of Russia?

 

[skybluetony176]

In that case, surely it’s fair enough if Russians settle in the occupied territories of Ukraine and they become Russian as they’ll want to be part of Russia?

And you know that how? There’s zero evidence that the majority want that in those areas unless you’re prepared to take Russian organised elections after the initial invasion as gospel and I seriously doubt that you’re silly enough to do that.

 

[duffer]

In that case, surely it’s fair enough if Russians settle in the occupied territories of Ukraine and they become Russian as they’ll want to be part of Russia?

Oh, so you're happy with what Britain did to Ireland in the plantation then. It's because might made right. I see.

That's why you're supporting Putin now. Got it.

 

[Sick Boy]

And you know that how? There’s zero evidence that the majority want that in those areas unless you’re prepared to take Russian organised elections after the initial invasion as gospel and I seriously doubt that you’re silly enough to do that.

I’m pretty sure that if settlers from Russia move in, they’re going to want to be part of Russia.

 

[Sick Boy]

Oh, so you're happy with what Britain did to Ireland in the plantation then. It's because might made right. I see.

That's why you're supporting Putin now. Got it.

No, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Just because I ask questions of Ukraine and think it’s a stalemate, it doesn’t mean that I support Putin. I think he’s a c**t.

 

[duffer]

And you know that how? There’s zero evidence that the majority want that in those areas unless you’re prepared to take Russian organised elections after the initial invasion as gospel and I seriously doubt that you’re silly enough to do that.

A laughing emoji is usually a good indication of the absence of an intelligent response, imho.

 

[Grendel]

A laughing emoji is usually a good indication of the absence of an intelligent response, imho.

PVA does it all the time - perhaps you are into something

 

[PVA]

No, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Just because I ask questions of Ukraine and think it’s a stalemate, it doesn’t mean that I support Putin. I think he’s a c**t.

But like Grendel you've asked way more questions of Ukraine than Russia.

Though at least you haven't gone as far as criticising Zelensky's dress sense more than Putin's war crimes like he has.

 

[PVA]

PVA does it all the time - perhaps you are into something

Are you quite sure you don't have amnesia?

 

[Grendel]

Are you quite sure you don't have amnesia?

I have no idea. Perhaps I need to ask someone to help me out

 

[duffer]

No, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Just because I ask questions of Ukraine and think it’s a stalemate, it doesn’t mean that I support Putin. I think he’s a c**t.

Hypocrisy noted.

Just to join the dots here, you're saying that because we as a nation behaved poorly towards Ireland (and not just them!), we've got no business supporting Ukraine against Russia.

Or have I got that wrong and in fact they are entirely unrelated matters?

 

[Grendel]

Hypocrisy noted.

Just to join the dots here, you're saying that because we as a nation behaved poorly towards Ireland (and not just them!), we've got no business supporting Ukraine against Russia.

Or have I got that wrong and in fact they are entirely unrelated matters?

We are supporting Ukraine purely from a perceived self interest

 

[Grendel]

But like Grendel you've asked way more questions of Ukraine than Russia.

Though at least you haven't gone as far as criticising Zelensky's dress sense more than Putin's war crimes like he has.

I believe that was more a reference to macron who you rode in to defend - still another hard hitting piece of analysis - good to see

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m pretty sure that if settlers from Russia move in, they’re going to want to be part of Russia.

I’m not sure that’s how it works. Do you want/expect Italy to be part of Ireland or the UK just because you’ve settled there?

 

[skybluetony176]

No, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Just because I ask questions of Ukraine and think it’s a stalemate, it doesn’t mean that I support Putin. I think he’s a c**t.

I’m not sure where the Hypocrisy is. You’re comparing apples with oranges and the only possible justification you can come up with for saying it’s hypocrisy involves swallowing Russian propaganda hook line and sinker.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I really don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

Absolutely absurd that anyone could try and claim this war is not good vs bad. That's exactly what it is.

You have claimed that. I was talking about you stating that it was US (good) v Russia (bad).

 

[PVA]

You have claimed that. I was talking about you stating that it was US (good) v Russia (bad).

In this particular case it clearly is good vs bad.

It is very possible to disagree with the US' actions in, say, Israel, but support it's actions in Ukraine.

So it's not me that's labelling everything as a binary good or bad thing, I'm quite capable of differentiating. It's actually you who is lumping one country's actions as binary by saying because US does bad things in the middle east they are doing bad things in Russia.

 

[Sick Boy]

Hypocrisy noted.

Just to join the dots here, you're saying that because we as a nation behaved poorly towards Ireland (and not just them!), we've got no business supporting Ukraine against Russia.

Or have I got that wrong and in fact they are entirely unrelated matters?

If you can’t work it out yourself, you’ve got no business trying to be condescending to others.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m not sure that’s how it works. Do you want/expect Italy to be part of Ireland or the UK just because you’ve settled there?

Fucking hell. You’re the one coming out with excuses for it happening in Ireland, not me.

 

[Grendel]

In this particular case it clearly is good vs bad.

It is very possible to disagree with the US' actions in, say, Israel, but support it's actions in Ukraine.

So it's not me that's labelling everything as a binary good or bad thing, I'm quite capable of differentiating. It's actually you who is lumping one country's actions as binary by saying because US does bad things in the middle east they are doing bad things in Russia.

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell. You’re the one coming out with excuses for it happening in Ireland, not me.

He has gone beyond parody now