We NEED to appeal that. (5 Viewers)

[Johhny Blue]

There should be an anti VAR day next season where fans from all teams boycott by not attending the scheduled games.
VAR is so hated by the majority of fans surely one day off would be worth it.
Let’s pick a day and get the word out

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

An appeal won't get us anywhere, we just have to let it go.
VAR should have no place whatsoever in the game though.

If we conceded a goal like that, I’d probably argue it was offside.

The issue is the implementation not so much the concept. VAR should be referred to when the referee and is his team believes there could be an infringement. Only in niche instances (e.g. violent conduct) should VAR flag something to the ref. In this case, everyone believed that is was a goal because the Man U players collapsed rather than protesting.

It’s wrong that the referee can be essentially overturned by some bureaucrat in the box. If the ref looked at a screen of the incident and decide ‘offside’, I could live with that more than him being told the answer.

 

[Otis]

Savage says without var the goal is given

It was given.

 

[Otis]

There should be an anti VAR day next season where fans from all teams boycott by not attending the scheduled games.
VAR is so hated by the majority of fans surely one day off would be worth it.
Let’s pick a day and get the word out

Yeah, we should do that and we can all stand in line, but have the line just ever so slightly wonky.

 

[The watchmaker]

I do feel like we are focussing on the wrong thing here. VAR has arguably done it's job - but the offside rule is totally broken and utterly incompatible with technology. The rule used to be - level is on; benefit of the doubt to the attacker. We've now moved to a 'fact based' system that has us all quibbling over when the ball was 'first touched,' dodgy lines and frame rates but the reality is that even from that photo provided any reasonable man would draw the conclusion that the two were level at worst.

The line is drawn from AWBs chest and aligns half way up Wright's foot. Looking at body positions, Wright's centre of gravity and the vast majority of his body is behind the united player. If Wright is looking across the line he has every right to think he is onside.

In my view, if we flip it and the lino puts his flag up VAR should be overturning that. But it can't because for some reason we have a stupid offside rule that thinks level can be off.

 

[robbiethemole]

VAR = video assistant referee, not the overall arbiter of any decision.
It’s gone way past what it was intended for.

 

[Sick Boy]

If we conceded a goal like that, I’d probably argue it was offside.

The issue is the implementation not so much the concept. VAR should be referred to when the referee and is his team believes there could be an infringement. Only in niche instances (e.g. violent conduct) should VAR flag something to the ref. In this case, everyone believed that is was a goal because the Man U players collapsed rather than protesting.

It’s wrong that the referee can be essentially overturned by some bureaucrat in the box. If the ref looked at a screen of the incident and decide ‘offside’, I could live with that more than him being told the answer.

Yeah I agree, the thing that I hate the most is that it will eventually kill off emotion during the game.

 

[MusicDating]

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

VAR = video assistant referee, not the overall arbiter of any decision.
It’s gone way past what it was intended for.

Emphasis on the ‘assistant’, atm it is king. When VAR refers something to the ref, it is unduly influencing the referee’s decision making process. In contrast, in rugby and other sports, the officials use the technology to decide on a call.

Is VAR under as much scrutiny in other countries? I genuinely believe it’s the English FA that has absolutely botched VAR’s implementation.

Surely the referee’s themselves are against a system that makes them more or less irrelevant.

 

[djr8369]

Apparently the offside is judged from when the pass is deemed to have been played, not when the ball has left the foot

What’s the difference? Deemed implies subjectivity.

 

[Sick Boy]

Emphasis on the ‘assistant’, atm it is king. When VAR refers something to the ref, it is unduly influencing the referee’s decision making process. In contrast, in rugby and other sports, the officials use the technology to decide on a call.

Is VAR under as much scrutiny in other countries? I genuinely believe it’s the English FA that has absolutely botched VAR’s implementation.

Surely the referee’s themselves are against a system that makes them more or less irrelevant.

I think the final call should be that of the referee and they should be the ones reviewing the footage at the side of the pitch.

 

[SkyBlueSteve81]

VAR has just gone a bit bonkers. It was introduced for 'clear and obvious' errors but there was nothing clear or obvious about that offside decision. The use of Technology should simplify issues, was the ball over the goal line or not for example.

My view:

-Take VAR back to the most basic of uses and give the referee the opportunity to review a decision that they made in real time to see if there is something they missed. Not 5 minutes and several passages of play ago but a defined time, 15 or 20 seconds for instance. If they can't see anything in that time it wasn't clear and obvious.

-Stop VAR officiating the game and make the referee on the pitch 100% responsible for the decisions in a game as it was for many years. VAR should be able to say to the referee "we believe there is something you might wish to review" but don't tell them what to look for. Show them 2 replays at normal speed and different angles, not super slow motion. If the referee doesn't see anything different the game goes on.

-Stop putting lines on the screens. Show the ref a replay of the passage of play and let them make the decision together with the assistant referee (linesmen in old money).

What VAR is doing is creating a generation of referees that are having their backsides wiped by the knowledge that VAR will re-referee the game for them. Then when they drop down to the championship they are incapable of making a decision for themselves.

Make the in stadium officials responsible for the game and use technology to provide them with more information.

 

[djr8369]

The margin of error is around 15cm when you factor in frame rates, speed of players and speed on the ball. But you also can't reliably draw lines based on something in the air like a shoulder so that adds something else in.

Which brings us back to clear and obvious. Nobody would have an issue with VAR if it was only being used to stop the massive errors.

Is that the calculated margin of error or a guesstimate?

 

[jordan210]

I enjoy rival fans saying it's clearly off. That clear that none of the on pitch officials gave it as off side

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think the final call should be that of the referee and they should be the ones reviewing the footage at the side of the pitch.

Agreed.

To use rugby as an example, the phrase ‘clear and obvious’ actually means something. In my view, I’m sure in that context, a rugby referee would straight up say that the offside is not ‘clear and obvious’ because of the things mentioned earlier about frame speeds and what not. Wright certainly hadn’t gained an advantage either as he received the ball behind the last man.

 

[Sick Boy]

Agreed.

To use rugby as an example, the phrase ‘clear and obvious’ actually means something. In my view, I’m sure in that context, a rugby referee would straight up say that the offside is not ‘clear and obvious’ because of the things mentioned earlier about frame speeds and what not. Wright certainly hadn’t gained an advantage either as he received the ball behind the last man.

Agree 100%.

 

[Sheffield Sky Blue]

This is what VAR actually used on the day. Under the current rules, this is offside.

I agree that the use of VAR is problematic, but it was the correct interpretation of the current regulations:-

 

[RegTheDonk]

What's the significance of the yellow line? Just wondering why its included in this graphic.

 

[jordan210]

This is what VAR actually used on the day. Under the current rules, this is offside.

I agree that the use of VAR is problematic, but it was the correct interpretation of the current regulations:-

It's not what VAR used its a VAR fan account. Its not the actual footage or lines.

If you look at the top the lines dont cross at the same place so not actually correct

 

[Otis]

VAR = video assistant referee, not the overall arbiter of any decision.
It’s gone way past what it was intended for.

Exactly. VAR can work, but it certainly isn't working they way they are implementing it. It's become ridiculous.

 

[MAFF]

I was ready to call you all crackpots but the more I see it, the more I'm actually not sure it was off...

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

I was ready to call you all crackpots but the more I see it, the more I'm actually not sure it was off...

Because its impossible to know when O Hare released the ball, its a split second desicion which even a computer wouldn't know, it's inconclusive and should of been given

 

[MAFF]

Because its impossible to know when O Hare released the ball, its a split second desicion which even a computer wouldn't know, it's inconclusive and should of been given

Yep. Was fine this morning. Feel a bit sick now.

 

[chiefdave]

VAR fan account

the FA have too much time on their hands

 

[hopesprings]

It was shit, Haji gained nothing from whatever marginal millimetre he was ahead as AWB was running back and Haji was side on.

I honestly don't know why they don't say there has to be clear daylight between last man and striker for offside. Any part is level it's on side. Make it the same rules as when a ball is checked to see if it has crossed the line... the whole of the ball has to be over the whole of the line. The whole of the man is passed the whole of the defender. Would clear stuff up surely? At the very least it would mean more goals. Football is an entertainment why are they hell-bent on stubbing out goals for bullshit like today

Was that in the past I am sure !

 

[shmmeee]

Just to throw something else in there. Just listened to the commentary and they say it took a deflection on the way through. So is that even the right frame?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is that the calculated margin of error or a guesstimate?

Calculate margin of error it should be

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just to throw something else in there. Just listened to the commentary and they say it took a deflection on the way through. So is that even the right frame?

I don’t think it did
It was a foul on Ohare mind

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I was ready to call you all crackpots but the more I see it, the more I'm actually not sure it was off...

Yep I think it’s the wrong frame
The ball hadn’t been played at that point that’s what needs clarifying soberly and coldly without emotion

 

[jordan210]

Just to throw something else in there. Just listened to the commentary and they say it took a deflection on the way through. So is that even the right frame?

It does look like it brushes Dalot

 

[djr8369]

This is what VAR actually used on the day. Under the current rules, this is offside.

I agree that the use of VAR is problematic, but it was the correct interpretation of the current regulations:-

It looks convincing but how do we know those lines are correct, calibrated and not suffering from parallax error?

 

[jordan210]

It looks convincing but how do we know those lines are correct, calibrated and not suffering from parallax error?

It's not its a some weird VAR fan account. The lines to even cross properly at the top of the axes

 

[ptr]

If they cannot accurately determine when it’s left the players foot, then it’s flawed.

On the whole, the technology is good. But it’s deskilling referees to the point they are scared to make a decision as they know someone can make it for them.

As for the people behind it that make the decisions, don’t get me started.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

What does that even mean?

Nothing it means nothing, it's absolute bullshit.

Offside rule was brought in to stop goal hanging, it was never meant to be used like this. What advantage did Wright gain being a Gnats dangly bit offside? Absolutely fuck all. If he even was fucking offside to begin with which is questionable.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

If we conceded a goal like that, I’d probably argue it was offside.

The issue is the implementation not so much the concept. VAR should be referred to when the referee and is his team believes there could be an infringement. Only in niche instances (e.g. violent conduct) should VAR flag something to the ref. In this case, everyone believed that is was a goal because the Man U players collapsed rather than protesting.

It’s wrong that the referee can be essentially overturned by some bureaucrat in the box. If the ref looked at a screen of the incident and decide ‘offside’, I could live with that more than him being told the answer.

This

If the ref gives the goal, the linesman doesn't flag and the 4th official doesn't protest then there is absolutely no reason to go to VAR. It should only be called upon when an on-pitch official believes there might be something.