Do you want to discuss boring politics? (33 Viewers)

[shepardo01]

 

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[Skybluekyle]

It's not uncommon to hear about people on benefits living a life of luxury but I can't work out how anyone would manage it.

During covid when there was a very real prospect of me losing my job I looked at what I'd be entitled to and I'd probably be able to survive for a month before I'd basically be homeless. And then again recently I spent some time in hospital and essentially got told work related stress is going to kill me, looked into what I'd be entitled to if I took up their suggestion of being signed off work long term and again it was fuck all.

Is there genuinely people doing more than just surviving on benefits, how the hell are they doing it?

I personally think it's a complete fallacy.

End of last year I was made redundant from work after 11 years working with the company. Fortunately, due to length of time served, my wage and a quite generous deal, I left with a decent sum. With that being said, I felt a material downgrade in my lifestyle, as I looked at my finances to ensure I can live for the portion of time out of work, and adjusted in kind.

I also cross-compared that with the benefits given, and I can confirm, there is absolutely no way someone on benefits could live a life of luxury, and I am a single guy! I could live okay enough, as I am sure people on benefits should also feel, but definitely not as well as I did when working. Of course, everyone's circumstances are different, but it did give me a sense of perspective. (I am sure no-one would be interested, but I am soon to be working again, thank god! Although, at the same time the Euros start)

 

[clint van damme]

If someone's going to embezzle my taxes I'd much rather it be Trev down the pub getting £750 quid a month than that c**t Michelle Mone and scum like her.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Interesting article and I think pretty accurate of where we are as a country and politically at the moment.

Britain’s no longer a serious nation and we’re not serious about fixing it

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

The main crux of it, neither the politicians nor the public are willing to make/accept the tough calls that need to be made

 

[CCFCSteve]

If someone's going to embezzle my taxes I'd much rather it be Trev down the pub getting £750 quid a month than that c**t Michelle Mone and scum like her.

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting article and I think pretty accurate of where we are as a country and politically at the moment.

Britain’s no longer a serious nation and we’re not serious about fixing it

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

The main crux of it, neither the politicians nor the public are willing to make/accept the tough calls that need to be made

View attachment 35829

We definitely need to reverse the decline, but I’m not sure I buy the idea we are particularly unique globally in terms of personality. Literally every country is like this and they manage. The idea that the yanks are perfectly happy with their service levels or the French with their tax levels is nonsense.

We need economic growth and proper long term investment. The US gets to be mental cos it’s minted, everywhere else just has sensible long term policies around investment. We are always trying to penny pinch and are massively anti development so we get the worst of both worlds: low income and high expenditure.

HS2 is by far the best example of this. But equally the short termism of cuts to public services the last 14 years has been very expensive. As had the refusal to close tax loopholes. The refusal to build literally anything.

You and the author seem to have the belief that income is fixed and we just have to raise taxes or cut spending but the fact is that’s the plan of the last 14 years and it’s lead to anaemic growth and no better public finances. We’ve raised taxes to their highest level and cut spending pretty much as much as possible. I’m not sure more of the same is going to produce different results.

 

[Skybluekyle]

We definitely need to reverse the decline, but I’m not sure I buy the idea we are particularly unique globally in terms of personality. Literally every country is like this and they manage. The idea that the yanks are perfectly happy with their service levels or the French with their tax levels is nonsense.

We need economic growth and proper long term investment. The US gets to be mental cos it’s minted, everywhere else just has sensible long term policies around investment. We are always trying to penny pinch and are massively anti development so we get the worst of both worlds: low income and high expenditure.

HS2 is by far the best example of this. But equally the short termism of cuts to public services the last 14 years has been very expensive. As had the refusal to close tax loopholes. The refusal to build literally anything.

You and the author seem to have the belief that income is fixed and we just have to raise taxes or cut spending but the fact is that’s the plan of the last 14 years and it’s lead to anaemic growth and no better public finances. We’ve raised taxes to their highest level and cut spending pretty much as much as possible. I’m not sure more of the same is going to produce different results.

Agreed. At the moment in time we are sticking our problems onto the country's credit card, whilst also basking in the glory of being, by most metrics, the greenest major economy in the world, whilst we outsource our industry to countries with less concern for the environment, and I include the US in that.

Biggest problems for me right now are; energy security, trade deficits and public spending and how it is spent. All this feeds into the current cost of living crisis, the NHS is on its knees and the nepotism fuelled by this freaking Tory party.

 

[clint van damme]

Agreed. At the moment in time we are sticking our problems onto the country's credit card, whilst also basking in the glory of being, by most metrics, the greenest major economy in the world, whilst we outsource our industry to countries with less concern for the environment, and I include the US in that.

Biggest problems for me right now are; energy security, trade deficits and public spending and how it is spent. All this feeds into the current cost of living crisis, the NHS is on its knees and the nepotism fuelled by this freaking Tory party.

The problem isn't shortage of cash, its where its going.
Needs sorting out pronto.

 

[Skybluekyle]

The problem isn't shortage of cash, its where its going.
Needs sorting out pronto.

Couldn't agree more. The UK has a GDP of, what, $3.5 trillion. Obviously this value doesn't reflect government expenditure/tax receipts, but it shows the UK is an incredibly wealthy country and a good snap shot!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interesting article and I think pretty accurate of where we are as a country and politically at the moment.

Britain’s no longer a serious nation and we’re not serious about fixing it

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

The main crux of it, neither the politicians nor the public are willing to make/accept the tough calls that need to be made

View attachment 35829

Well, some of us always have been. If we’re serious about it, the Tories can’t be allowed back in for a good few decades.

 

[David O'Day]

I notice that Starmer has been doing a tour of lower and non-league football grounds to appear more 'with it'. He should do Nuneaton next

That's because they are in target constituencies, nothing to do with being "with it".

No point in turning up at Anfield, Old Trafford or the new White Hart Lane as they are in non target seats.

 

[David O'Day]

Shambles

 

[wingy]

Pathetic!!

 

[skybluetony176]

Outgoing Tory MP for Telford is endorsing the Reform candidate to replace her.

 

[fernandopartridge]

We definitely need to reverse the decline, but I’m not sure I buy the idea we are particularly unique globally in terms of personality. Literally every country is like this and they manage. The idea that the yanks are perfectly happy with their service levels or the French with their tax levels is nonsense.

We need economic growth and proper long term investment. The US gets to be mental cos it’s minted, everywhere else just has sensible long term policies around investment. We are always trying to penny pinch and are massively anti development so we get the worst of both worlds: low income and high expenditure.

HS2 is by far the best example of this. But equally the short termism of cuts to public services the last 14 years has been very expensive. As had the refusal to close tax loopholes. The refusal to build literally anything.

You and the author seem to have the belief that income is fixed and we just have to raise taxes or cut spending but the fact is that’s the plan of the last 14 years and it’s lead to anaemic growth and no better public finances. We’ve raised taxes to their highest level and cut spending pretty much as much as possible. I’m not sure more of the same is going to produce different results.

It comes from the same discredited household budget analogy

 

[CCFCSteve]

We definitely need to reverse the decline, but I’m not sure I buy the idea we are particularly unique globally in terms of personality. Literally every country is like this and they manage. The idea that the yanks are perfectly happy with their service levels or the French with their tax levels is nonsense.

We need economic growth and proper long term investment. The US gets to be mental cos it’s minted, everywhere else just has sensible long term policies around investment. We are always trying to penny pinch and are massively anti development so we get the worst of both worlds: low income and high expenditure.

HS2 is by far the best example of this. But equally the short termism of cuts to public services the last 14 years has been very expensive. As had the refusal to close tax loopholes. The refusal to build literally anything.

You and the author seem to have the belief that income is fixed and we just have to raise taxes or cut spending but the fact is that’s the plan of the last 14 years and it’s lead to anaemic growth and no better public finances. We’ve raised taxes to their highest level and cut spending pretty much as much as possible. I’m not sure more of the same is going to produce different results.

Don’t disagree with a lot of that. I’ve said before that stimulating growth and investment in infrastructure etc are essential.

Nobody’s suggesting we’re unique. There are some big choices that we and most other western nations/economies need to make.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's because they are in target constituencies, nothing to do with being "with it".

No point in turning up at Anfield, Old Trafford or the new White Hart Lane as they are in non target seats.

Ibrox and Celtic Park not targets?

 

[SBT]

Shambles

I thought the national service scheme was for 18 year-olds? What are you going to punish their parents for?

 

[shmmeee]

It comes from the same discredited household budget analogy

It’s not fixing the roof cos it’ll cost loads so just get a few bits of tarp and we’ll be OK. Even in household budget terms it doesn’t make sense. Selling the car you use to get to work to make savings. Buying cheap twice rather than quality once etc.

 

[shmmeee]

Don’t disagree with a lot of that. I’ve said before that stimulating growth and investment in infrastructure etc are essential.

Nobody’s suggesting we’re unique. There are some big choices that we and most other western nations/economies need to make.

Going to go outside of left wing orthodoxy here. I think Europe in particular has calcified its economies with regulation. The industry i pay attention to (tech) has some absolutely ridiculous regulation that strangles startups in the crib.

The US will be fine, huge market, great natural resources, etc. China and India too. Europe I worry about.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Going to go outside of left wing orthodoxy here. I think Europe in particular has calcified its economies with regulation. The industry i pay attention to (tech) has some absolutely ridiculous regulation that strangles startups in the crib.

The US will be fine, huge market, great natural resources, etc. China and India too. Europe I worry about.

In Europe we’re all in a bit of trouble with aging populations and anaemic growth.

As you say US will be ok but could have some big debt issues on the horizon if their growth slows but rates remain high

edit - the ideal would be reaching cross party consensus on some longer term planning regarding nhs, social care, national work force requirements, infrastructure etc. Never going to happen though

 

[shmmeee]

Random aside: Unironically I think the best thing Europe could do would be to use English as the main language everywhere.

Unifying regulation is a good start, but realistically the reason big tech starts in China India and the US is they have a market you can scale up in without much trouble. Make V1 of your product then worry about scaling. Europe even aside from local laws you need to spend on localisation to move outside your initial market.

 

[David O'Day]

Ibrox and Celtic Park not targets?

That would be Anas Sarwar's job but it's best to stay the fuck away from both if you want to not piss off a large number of Scottish voters.

Nice try though.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That would be Anas Sarwar's job but it's best to stay the fuck away from both if you want to not piss off a large number of Scottish voters.

Nice try though.

I see, 4D electoral ju jitsu once again. I assume that Molineux will be his next stop, given Wolverhampton has two Tory MPs?

 

[shmmeee]

I see, 4D electoral ju jitsu once again. I assume that Molineux will be his next stop, given Wolverhampton has two Tory MPs?

How dare he try and get elected? Doesn’t he know that’s against socialist values?

 

[shmmeee]

Why does anyone take this guy seriously? It’s just his brother isn’t it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How dare he try and get elected? Doesn’t he know that’s against socialist values?

So why not go into target constituency football stadia in bigger places?

 

[fatso]

All cutting benefits would do is drive the first group further down and increase the amount of crime the second group do.

I don't dispute that, but from a treasury point of view, it easies the burden on the tax man.

And the Chancellor is unlikely to give a fuck about the people who claim.

 

[David O'Day]

I see, 4D electoral ju jitsu once again. I assume that Molineux will be his next stop, given Wolverhampton has two Tory MPs?

Yawn

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yawn

As per. He could have gone to Stoke or Wolverhampton, he chose Stafford

 

[shmmeee]

I don't dispute that, but from a treasury point of view, it easies the burden on the tax man.

And the Chancellor is unlikely to give a fuck about the people who claim.

Well if tax evasion goes up and crime goes up not so much.

This is the problem with a very simplified view of the world. Cutting support in one area raises costs elsewhere. Cut social care, spend more on the NHS, cut policing, spend more ironically in policing, cut education, spend more everywhere.

 

[shmmeee]

So why not go into target constituency football stadia in bigger places?

You mean bigger stadia? Probably same reason he doesn’t talk up his Arsenal support that much: it starts to piss off people as much as gain their support. Whereas almost everyone regardless of the team they support thinks non-league is a worthy cause to associate with.

 

[Philosoraptor]

So why not go into target constituency football stadia in bigger places?

'cause they can't even fill a corner flag let alone a stadium.

I've been following the crowds at these meet-ups at stadiums, and it has been just piss poor.

If the leders of the political parties are putting themselves forward as being part of the common person the response from the common person has been "it's a no from me!"

 

[shmmeee]

'cause they can't even fill a corner flag let alone a stadium.

I've been following the crowds at these meet-ups at stadiums, and it has been just piss poor.

If the leders of the political parties are putting themselves forward as being part of the common person the response from the common person has been "it's a no from me!"

As we all know the number of people at a rally is massively relevant to electoral prospects and that’s why we enjoyed a Labour victory in 2017/19

 

[Philosoraptor]

As we all know the number of people at a rally is massively relevant to electoral prospects and that’s why we enjoyed a Labour victory in 2017/19

No crowds at events tell me the public cares fuck all in what the political parties are saying.