USSR invades Ukraine. (70 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
- Start date
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The Russian counteroffensive being labelled a success is something he’s invented.
How do I know what?
You were crowing about Russian advances and there were numerous doomsday stories in the media about Russian advances.
Your comprehension skills are as impressive as your buddy's then.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
I don’t think suggesting it’s a stalemate was seen as pro-Russian. More the comments that Ukraine should cede territory and get on with their lives.
I’d suggest most know the fighting is at a stalemate now but signing a portion of Ukraine over to Russia previously has worked wonders hasn’t it.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
At the time it was seen as being pro-Russian and for saying the counter-offensive was a failure. Both are reported by the likes of the BBC now.
Unless the West actively gets involved in the war, there’s little chance of Ukraine reclaiming lost territory. That’s not even considering the territory lost in 2014.
It won’t be said but I’d also imagine concerns and reluctance over funding and weapons is a result of the failed counteroffensive.
Yeah because I'm definitely saying there it's fantastic that Russia are bombing innocent people. Fucking hell.
Ok let me break it down for you, as you seem to be struggling.
You and Grendelov have said all along that the US is only in it for themselves and is fighting a proxy war.
I agree, to an extent.
If you think the US is fighting a proxy war against Russia (and clearly they are), then severely damaging their army and capability without losing a single US life is clearly incredibly effective and advantageous for them.
I mean it's really not difficult.
Fantastic from the point of view of the US vs Russia, obviously.
It's not difficult. You've said it yourself.
But when I say it I'm a 'vile c**t'. Absolutely pathetic
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The conflict is clearly not just against Russia; in reality it’s a wider conflict with other countries trying to overcome western dominance.Fantastic from the point of view of the US vs Russia, obviously.
It's not difficult. You've said it yourself.
But when I say it I'm a 'vile c**t'. Absolutely pathetic
It’s also easy for Russia to highlight western double standards with what’s going on elsewhere in the world.
That's fine, but nothing to do with the point being made, where you called me a vile c**t for saying the same thing as you.
Again, from the point of the US. I don't know why this is so difficult for you.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
You said Putin had played a blinder.
PVA has said this US foreign policy opportunity is fantastic.
Can we just accept both terms used are in a purely subjective (from the perception of the ‘party’ involved) manner and neither mean anything in the grand scheme of things?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The irony though is the laughing at the idea it’s a proxy war then actually praising said proxy war from the west.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
…I would do if he hadn’t been used to label me pro-Russian, despite calling Putin a c**t.
Indeed. Clearly I wasn't describing the deaths of innocent civilians as 'fantastic'.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
And therein lies why conceding territory is pointless. Putin will just come back for more at a later date, especially as he would see Ukraine doing so as them being weak and embolden him.
Anyone who thinks a ceasefire with Ukraine ceding territory will bring an end to the killing it won't. It will just defer it for a few years.
I agree with this. Unfortunately I also think that the only way to end this in the short term will be a negotiated settlement.
If it’s a negotiated settlement that included Ukraine territory then it would have to be alongside Ukraine joining nato so any future incursion would be against a nato member. Another option could be to suggest to Putin something like, return to pre 2022 and agreement for Ukraine not to join nato unless there is a future incursion - can’t see him going for this currently though. It also requires Ukraine to cede Crimea which I’m not sure they’re willing to do
Any settlement proposal would have to be Ukraines call. These type of solutions would all depend on how strong/weak both sides feel and what appetite they have for continued war and loss of life (let’s be honest Putin doesn’t give a shit)
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Ultimately it’s not up to Ukraine though and will be decided by the West. There’s next to no chance of them getting Crimea back without a full scale war with other countries getting involved, which isn’t going to happen.
The West could try to dictate a solution by withdrawing financial and military support. This is unlikely to happen in the short term unless trump gets in, then who knows. Any solution would obviously require Ukraines buy in/agreement. As a country I get the impression they’d fight to the end
