Do you want to discuss boring politics? (38 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

Things could change, none of us foreseen COVID or war in Ukraine before 2019

There's always war somewhere.

As for Covid, the public would have been pretty tolerant without the fraud of contracts to mates, the muddled rules and the hypocrisy of breaking them themselves. If we'd come out afterwards without that, and seemingly a moderately well managed response to the pandemic with a way forward, if painful mapped out then Tory ratings would be through the roof.

Instead we got the Truss bonus!

 

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[shmmeee]

The Nazi's actually destroyed Germany's liberal democracy and replaced it with a totalitarian dictatorship with the help of the centre parties.

Using your understanding of how to vote in the next General Election, would you say it is okay to vote for these centrist parties because they are just a little left of the Nazi's?

Some top quality Nazi apologism here. Personally I don’t think murdering millions of minorities is just a little to the right of spending less than you might want.

 

[shmmeee]

He's also conspired to mess up his image too. After Johnson and Truss he was the boring but competent one... but he's found himself pandering to the nutters which then makes him look a bit like a nutter himself!

I never thought I'd be in a position where Jeremy Hunt looks eminently reasonable and capable in comparison to much of his fellow cabinet members btw! He's now a Tory moderate!

He was always a nutter. He’s a self declared Thatcherite in 2024 and a Brexiteer.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Some top quality Nazi apologism here. Personally I don’t think murdering millions of minorities is just a little to the right of spending less than you might want.

Would you say the centrist parties of that time were at least as culpable as the Nazi's for passing the act?

 

[shmmeee]

Would you say the centrist parties of that time were at least as culpable as the Nazi's for passing the act?

Would you say that these are sensible parallels to draw in 2024 or that centrist politics in 1930 is the same as in 2024?

 

[CCFCSteve]

He's also conspired to mess up his image too. After Johnson and Truss he was the boring but competent one... but he's found himself pandering to the nutters which then makes him look a bit like a nutter himself!

I never thought I'd be in a position where Jeremy Hunt looks eminently reasonable and capable in comparison to much of his fellow cabinet members btw! He's now a Tory moderate!

Crazy times. Said a few times before the biggest mistake Sunak made was making Bravermann Home Secretary and not purging the right of the party as soon as he became leader. They never wanted him and held him responsible for Boris going, so he may as well have got rid and presented it as a changed party. Still probably wouldn’t have worked but better than what happened

 

[SBAndy]

This one's going straight in Grendel's spreadsheet for when Farage leads the tories to a landslide in the next election

That is genuinely my concern. We’ve seen with both Johnson and Trump how much the cult of personality can cut through. If Farage does indeed make a play at the Tory leadership I fear we may be headed that way.

As it happens I also had a look at Reform’s accounts - huge director’s loan position which, if called in, would see them head into formal insolvency and effectively cease to exist. I wonder if this has been part of the plan all along.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Would you say that these are sensible parallels to draw in 2024 or that centrist politics in 1930 is the same as in 2024?

Are you being an apologist for the centre parties in the damage which the Enabling Act (1933) caused?

 

[David O'Day]

Rishi looks a beaten man and a very "meh" manifesto launch.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That is genuinely my concern. We’ve seen with both Johnson and Trump how much the cult of personality can cut through. If Farage does indeed make a play at the Tory leadership I fear we may be headed that way.

tbf with Truss, it was the nutters in the party membership rather than the electorate. The danger with someone like Truss (or Farage!) however, is she could promise the world in opposition rather than having to actually put it into practice, and there's a risk people looking for hope believe the flanel.

At least one bonus of her destroying so many mortgages is she's (hopefully!) been found out and that stops a comeback.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Would you say that these are sensible parallels to draw in 2024 or that centrist politics in 1930 is the same as in 2024?

Again, you have answered no questions. But are using the motif over the last few weeks of let's vote for Labour 'cause it's a little to the left of the Tory's.

What a load of crap this really is from you.

 

[shmmeee]

That is genuinely my concern. We’ve seen with both Johnson and Trump how much the cult of personality can cut through. If Farage does indeed make a play at the Tory leadership I fear we may be headed that way.

As it happens I also had a look at Reform’s accounts - huge director’s loan position which, if called in, would see them head into formal insolvency and effectively cease to exist. I wonder if this has been part of the plan all along.

There’s a bit of a myth around Johnson. Tories won in spite of him really thanks to Labour imploding and Brexit. He also fucked it by well being Johnson. As Farage would, because neither are serious politicians.

 

[shmmeee]

Again, you have answered no questions. But are using the motif over the last few weeks of let's vote for the Labour 'cause it's a little to the left of the Tory's.

What a load of crap this really is from you.

That’s your belief that everyone short of Corbyn is all the same from Nazis to centre left. I’m not sure anything I could say would drag you out of that delusion.

Ive explained multiple times why I vote Labour. Lower poverty, lower homelessness, better management of the economy, workers rights. I can explain again but I have a feeling it still won’t go in.

 

[SBAndy]

There’s a bit of a myth around Johnson. Tories won in spite of him really thanks to Labour imploding and Brexit. He also fucked it by well being Johnson. As Farage would, because neither are serious politicians.

Tend to disagree re the Tories winning in spite of him. I think his presence attracted a lot of support from plenty who would not traditionally vote Tory because “Boris Lad”.

 

[Philosoraptor]

That’s your belief that everyone short of Corbyn is all the same from Nazis to centre left. I’m not sure anything I could say would drag you out of that delusion.

Ive explained multiple times why I vote Labour. Lower poverty, lower homelessness, better management of the economy, workers rights. I can explain again but I have a feeling it still won’t go in.

Then how come you fucked the economy by not putting in controls the last time you were in power?

How come there is a death toll of over 150,000 people when Labour was last in power?

You have to admit, these amounts of deaths is usually reserved for tin pot dictatorships.

 

[shmmeee]

Tend to disagree re the Tories winning in spite of him. I think his presence attracted a lot of support from plenty who would not traditionally vote Tory because “Boris Lad”.

Brexit voting people voted Tory because they thought Brexit was still in doubt. But Johnson had a negative approval rating, it’s just Corbyn has the mother of all negative ratings.

 

[SBAndy]

Then how come you fucked the economy by not putting in controls the last time you were in power?

How come there is a death toll of over 150,000 people when Labour was last in power?

You have to admit, these amounts of deaths is usually reserved for tin pot dictatorships.

Have you had a lobotomy?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Have you had a lobotomy?

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Brexit voting people voted Tory because they thought Brexit was still in doubt. But Johnson had a negative approval rating, it’s just Corbyn has the mother of all negative ratings.

There was more to it than that. Remainer Tories preferred the prospect of Brexit than to a Corbyn government. The tories only increased their vote share by 1.2% whereas Labour lost 7.9% vote share and haemorrhaged votes from Brexit leaning parties (Tory & Brexit Party) and Remain leaning parties (Lib Dem & Green). Their Brexit policy was responsible for the extent of lost vote share %. Factor in Corbyn’s personal approval rating and an implausible manifesto to voters, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

Brexit Party stepping aside in Tory seats helped but also prevented the scale of defeat being larger for Labour where reform + Tory vote share outweighed Labour vote share.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah, as DOD suggested there might well be a lurch right which would make Tories unelectable for many. Also, inflation is finally settling, rates should be cut in coming months and a combo of those things should hopefully see at least a small bounce in growth. Labour will benefit from this so I’d be shocked if they didn’t get at least two terms comfortably assuming no major global events…big assumption i appreciate

You would also think that this consortium of businesses people who have backed Labour may also be willing to invest once the Tories are out of the way. The country has been seriously lacking in investment for a while now and them jitters about the country being a good place to invest hasn’t subsided since the B word and Covid and you have to put that down to the shit show of a government given the amount of time that’s passed since those two events.

 

[fernandopartridge]

There’s a bit of a myth around Johnson. Tories won in spite of him really thanks to Labour imploding and Brexit. He also fucked it by well being Johnson. As Farage would, because neither are serious politicians.

They also won with heavy help from the media, nothing they said was subject to any real scrutiny, e.g. oven ready deal, levelling up

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

14 fucking years of these chancers yet Attlee gets the shoulder after 1 term of our greatest ever administration.

What was it Sid Vicious said?

Echoes of 1945-51 in terms of the electoral outlook. Labour overturning a massive majority with people wanting change, then losing that majority in the next election and out of government a year after that.

 

[David O'Day]

Have you had a lobotomy?

he'd need a brain first

 

[Ashdown]

If I could make one prediction on the 2024 election…..very low turnout, the whole thing is a great turn off !!
I feel that whilst I agree with some potential policies from all parties none of them make me think, oh here comes real tangible change. Democracy and our two main party system means the country plods on in the same way with ‘ The culture of envy’ cancelling out anything positive that the ‘ greedy nepotists’ create and vice versa in time.

 

[clint van damme]

FFS

Appropriate name

 

[CCFCSteve]

You would also think that this consortium of businesses people who have backed Labour may also be willing to invest once the Tories are out of the way. The country has been seriously lacking in investment for a while now and them jitters about the country being a good place to invest hasn’t subsided since the B word and Covid and you have to put that down to the shit show of a government given the amount of time that’s passed since those two events.

Agreed. Just having some stability and certainty should be sufficient to increase investment…subject to anything scary in the labour manifesto (unlikely)

 

[AOM]

If this country elects Farage low quality trolling is the least of my worries!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Tend to disagree re the Tories winning in spite of him. I think his presence attracted a lot of support from plenty who would not traditionally vote Tory because “Boris Lad”.

And tbf he had left-ish spending plans which would sit a lot better than trad Tory ideas... which then forced Labour to go manic-left to distinguish themselves on spending.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

14 fucking years of these chancers yet Attlee gets the shoulder after 1 term of our greatest ever administration.

What was it Sid Vicious said?

To be fair, the Attlee government achieved all its manifesto by 1950 and had been in government during the war years. Then you had war in Korea and a successful wartime leader as your opponent…

Attlee ushered in a consensus that last until Thatcher, that was his success.

 

[skybluetony176]

I see someone has been throwing things at Farage again while he was doing an open top bus tour.

Most telling thing from the video was how few people were there. Especially as it was in Barnsley, prime Reform area you would think. Also half of them were apparently from a Stand Up To Racism protest there to protest his campaign. Starting to think that Reforms popularity might be overstated. Come to think of it even in Clacton at his launch half the people there were media.

 

[PVA]

The 'Starmer is a Tory really' stuff is one thing. But have I genuinely just read that actually he's only a smidge left of Hitler?

 

[wingy]

I see someone has been throwing things at Farage again while he was doing an open top bus tour.

Most telling thing from the video was how few people were there. Especially as it was in Barnsley, prime Reform area you would think. Also half of them were apparently from a Stand Up To Racism protest there to protest his campaign. Starting to think that Reforms popularity might be overstated. Come to think of it even in Clacton at his launch half the people there were media.

That first one has made £40 since on onlyf.fans alleged!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That’s your belief that everyone short of Corbyn is all the same from Nazis to centre left. I’m not sure anything I could say would drag you out of that delusion.

Ive explained multiple times why I vote Labour. Lower poverty, lower homelessness, better management of the economy, workers rights. I can explain again but I have a feeling it still won’t go in.

Well, Blair and Brown repealed a grand total of zero anti-union laws. Let’s see how many wet lettuce Starmer goes for.

 

[shmmeee]

Well, Blair and Brown repealed a grand total of zero anti-union laws. Let’s see how many wet lettuce Starmer goes for.

Employment Relations Act 1999 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Employment Relations Act 1999 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Tweaking, but not a repeal of any of the Thatcherite laws.