Do you want to discuss boring politics? (69 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Got recommended this. See the night and day difference between him and his wet lettuce tribute act.

Him and Brown were the last of the genuinely impressive politicians.

A lot easier to do that after you’ve been in government and got a record to be proud of though.

This is a touch different, talking about reducing the welfare bill, removing bureaucracy in the NHS, low inflation and strict control on spending.

Labour Party Conference

 

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[Philosoraptor]

Alway's good to give this a watch around election time.

 

[SBAndy]

I get the distinct feeling we’re looking at a one-term Labour government where pretty much everything improves across the board but the country doesn’t accept it because ‘vibes’. Bit like America.

 

[David O'Day]

I get the distinct feeling we’re looking at a one-term Labour government where pretty much everything improves across the board but the country doesn’t accept it because ‘vibes’. Bit like America.

Nah, they get at least 2 terms. It'll be that long until the tories are detoxified enough to think about power.

You have to remember they'll go absolutely batshit for a while when they lose.

 

[wingy]

Nah, they get at least 2 terms. It'll be that long until the tories are detoxified enough to think about power.

You have to remember they'll go absolutely batshit for a while when they lose.

They are batshit when they're in tbf!

 

[David O'Day]

They are batshit when they're in tbf!

Yeah, but they'll think the reason they lost so badly this time around is that they weren't "tory" enough and they'll lurch massively to the right.

 

[wingy]

Yeah, but they'll think the reason they lost so badly this time around is that they weren't "tory" enough and they'll lurch massively to the right.

Brexit and the confusion since has caused it for me absolutely bloody shambles!

 

[shmmeee]

I get the distinct feeling we’re looking at a one-term Labour government where pretty much everything improves across the board but the country doesn’t accept it because ‘vibes’. Bit like America.

Nah. We haven’t got the fucked up politics of America. The Tories won’t be close to electable in five years. This is just standard Labour pessimism.

 

[PVA]

I would have said the same a year or two ago about one term for Labour. But the Tories are fucked for a long time now, the electorate is just sick of them. They get openly laughed at and mocked by all and sundry on TV.

There's a generation or two of people that will never vote Tory meanwhile their base is literally dying off.

They're done for a long time.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Nah. We haven’t got the fucked up politics of America. The Tories won’t be close to electable in five years. This is just standard Labour pessimism.

5 years ago, it was unfathomable that Labour would overturn an 80-seat majority in this election.

They’re on a precipice of a record majority and complacency would be dangerous for Labour. Echoes of 1945-51 in terms of the electoral outlook. Labour overturning a massive majority with people wanting change, then losing that majority in the next election and out of government a year after that.

The Tories were wrong to bring Sunak in and they’re being roundly punished by the electorate.

 

[chiefdave]

Nah. We haven’t got the fucked up politics of America. The Tories won’t be close to electable in five years. This is just standard Labour pessimism.

This one's going straight in Grendel's spreadsheet for when Farage leads the tories to a landslide in the next election

 

[CCFCSteve]

Nah. We haven’t got the fucked up politics of America. The Tories won’t be close to electable in five years. This is just standard Labour pessimism.

Yeah, as DOD suggested there might well be a lurch right which would make Tories unelectable for many. Also, inflation is finally settling, rates should be cut in coming months and a combo of those things should hopefully see at least a small bounce in growth. Labour will benefit from this so I’d be shocked if they didn’t get at least two terms comfortably assuming no major global events…big assumption i appreciate

 

[skybluetony176]

5 years ago, it was unfathomable that Labour would overturn an 80-seat majority in this election.

They’re on a precipice of a record majority and complacency would be dangerous for Labour. Echoes of 1945-51 in terms of the electoral outlook. Labour overturning a massive majority with people wanting change, then losing that majority in the next election and out of government a year after that.

The Tories were wrong to bring Sunak in and they’re being roundly punished by the electorate.

The problem the Tories have if not Sunak then who? Following Boris’s purge and then the 2019 intake the talent pool is very shallow. The other problem that the parliamentary party has is that their membership is more bat shit crazy again. How else can you explain Truss. Even if Mordaunt for example came in and replace Sunak earlier she’d still have all the same problems Sunak has and aside from carrying a sword at a funeral really well she offers no more than Sunak. The biggest issue that they’re going to have is said talent pool is going to be even shallower post GE and their membership is still going to be bat shit crazy and whoever makes the final two it will be the least talentless that gets voted in as leader.

 

[CCFCSteve]

5 years ago, it was unfathomable that Labour would overturn an 80-seat majority in this election.

They’re on a precipice of a record majority and complacency would be dangerous for Labour. Echoes of 1945-51 in terms of the electoral outlook. Labour overturning a massive majority with people wanting change, then losing that majority in the next election and out of government a year after that.

The Tories were wrong to bring Sunak in and they’re being roundly punished by the electorate.

They were wrong to bring Truss in ! To be fair Sunak/hunt have cleaned up the mess economically. Unfortunately Sunak is the least political politician I’ve ever seen and not sure he has a grand vision - decent caretaker but maybe not much more. Whoever took over from Truss and Johnson was fucked. Reputationally the Tories were in the gutter, plus 14 years in power, people were done

 

[shmmeee]

5 years ago, it was unfathomable that Labour would overturn an 80-seat majority in this election.

They’re on a precipice of a record majority and complacency would be dangerous for Labour. Echoes of 1945-51 in terms of the electoral outlook. Labour overturning a massive majority with people wanting change, then losing that majority in the next election and out of government a year after that.

The Tories were wrong to bring Sunak in and they’re being roundly punished by the electorate.

When was the last one term government?

Last election was the height of Labour navel gazing and the fourth they’d lost. The Tories haven’t even started yet.

 

[shmmeee]

This one's going straight in Grendel's spreadsheet for when Farage leads the tories to a landslide in the next election

If this country elects Farage low quality trolling is the least of my worries!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The problem the Tories have if not Sunak then who? Following Boris’s purge and then the 2019 intake the talent pool is very shallow. The other problem that the parliamentary party has is that their membership is more bat shit crazy again. How else can you explain Truss. Even if Mordaunt for example came in and replace Sunak earlier she’d still have all the same problems Sunak has and aside from carrying a sword at a funeral really well she offers no more than Sunak. The biggest issue that they’re going to have is said talent pool is going to be even shallower post GE and their membership is still going to be bat shit crazy and whoever makes the final two it will be the least talentless that gets voted in as leader.

Frankly, we don’t know because the leader’s of tomorrow seemingly come out nowhere. Sunak himself was junior minister and relative unknown in 2019 - elected MP in 2015, he’s relatively inexperienced.

Likewise with Labour, Starmer hasn’t even been an MP for 9 years yet (relatively inexperienced) and will be running the country come July 5th. The Tories have no credibility on any key issues anymore.

 

[shmmeee]

Frankly, we don’t know because the leader’s of tomorrow seemingly come out nowhere. Sunak himself was junior minister and relative unknown in 2019 - elected MP in 2015, he’s relatively inexperienced.

Likewise with Labour, Starmer hasn’t even been an MP for 9 years yet (relatively inexperienced) and will be running the country come July 5th. The Tories have no credibility on any key issues anymore.

TBF Starmer has been talked about since he was DPP

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

When was the last one term government?

Last election was the height of Labour navel gazing and the fourth they’d lost. The Tories haven’t even started yet.

The 1970s. Our electoral system has gone through alternating predominance where one party dominates for multiple terms.

If Starmer was genuinely popular, I’d 100% agree that the Tories are done for a generation. He isn’t and the electorate seem more intent on punishing the Tories (rightfully so) than enthusiasm for Starmer.

Things could change, none of us foreseen COVID or war in Ukraine before 2019… On the economy, Labour is already unable to rule out public expenditure cuts and failure to increase spending on public services will attract support on the left. On the traditional conservative priorities, crime and immigration, Labour lose support to Reform/Tory if these areas aren’t addressed.

My overall feeling is that the electorate is fed with how things are going and are willing to give Labour a chance but their patience is short with both major parties.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

TBF Starmer has been talked about since he was DPP

Talked about, both parties pick out their golden boys/girls and parachuted into ‘safe seats’, for sure.

David Miliband was the supposed heir in 2010 and Burnham in 2015 before ‘Red Ed’ and Jezza had other ideas.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The 1970s. Our electoral system has gone through alternating predominance where one party dominates for multiple terms.

If Starmer was genuinely popular, I’d 100% agree that the Tories are done for a generation. He isn’t and the electorate seem more intent on punishing the Tories (rightfully so) than enthusiasm for Starmer.

Things could change, none of us foreseen COVID or war in Ukraine before 2019… On the economy, Labour is already unable to rule out public expenditure cuts and failure to increase spending on public services will attract support on the left. On the traditional conservative priorities, crime and immigration, Labour lose support to Reform/Tory if these areas aren’t addressed.

My overall feeling is that the electorate is fed with how things are going and are willing to give Labour a chance but their patience is short with both major parties.

Most sensible people accept this
Most of us just want a grown up to attempt the role after the charlatans we’ve had recently
Most people have no comprehension of how to run a small organisation let alone a country
Some people think common sense is some kind of magical ability or intuition that negates the need for evidence and fact and study and expertise. ITS NOT!
Some people think that if you shout the loudest or repeat the same thing it must be true. ITS NOT

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Talked about, both parties pick out their golden boys/girls and parachuted into ‘safe seats’, for sure.

David Miliband was the supposed heir in 2010 and Burnham in 2015 before ‘Red Ed’ and Jezza had other ideas.

What a loss to our political progress it was to not get a song out of David Milliband
Probably for the tories it’s Rory Stewart
I’m embarrassed watching Lee Anderson calling the police commissioner names thinking he’s clever or hard being a grumpy twat

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

They were wrong to bring Truss in ! To be fair Sunak/hunt have cleaned up the mess economically. Unfortunately Sunak is the least political politician I’ve ever seen and not sure he has a grand vision - decent caretaker but maybe not much more. Whoever took over from Truss and Johnson was fucked. Reputationally the Tories were in the gutter, plus 14 years in power, people were done

The mistake was getting rid of Boris. A lot of the public still him and he’s a good campaigner.

As for Truss, I actually agree with a lot of her observations on how to fix the economy. Her delivery was disastrous and generally incompetent to govern.

Like you said, after 14 years, the Tory party is tired, out of ideas and wrecked by infighting. Nothing seems to have got better and they deserve to be kicked out.

It is my personal opinion is that things will get worse before they get better. It’s worth noting Starmer modelled himself of Schloz when he’d been newly elected. The latter has been a disaster for Germany.

 

[clint van damme]

Yeah, as DOD suggested there might well be a lurch right which would make Tories unelectable for many. Also, inflation is finally settling, rates should be cut in coming months and a combo of those things should hopefully see at least a small bounce in growth. Labour will benefit from this so I’d be shocked if they didn’t get at least two terms comfortably assuming no major global events…big assumption i appreciate

They may lurch to the right, but there will be resistance from the one nation tories and some of the shire tories so they've got that battle to play out before they even start to think about winning an election and I think it will be a bloody one.

 

[David O'Day]

They may lurch to the right, but there will be resistance from the one nation tories and some of the shire tories so they've got that battle to play out before they even start to think about winning an election and I think it will be a bloody one.

Oh, they'll hack lumps out of each other for at least 4 years.

 

[shmmeee]

The 1970s. Our electoral system has gone through alternating predominance where one party dominates for multiple terms.

If Starmer was genuinely popular, I’d 100% agree that the Tories are done for a generation. He isn’t and the electorate seem more intent on punishing the Tories (rightfully so) than enthusiasm for Starmer.

Things could change, none of us foreseen COVID or war in Ukraine before 2019… On the economy, Labour is already unable to rule out public expenditure cuts and failure to increase spending on public services will attract support on the left. On the traditional conservative priorities, crime and immigration, Labour lose support to Reform/Tory if these areas aren’t addressed.

My overall feeling is that the electorate is fed with how things are going and are willing to give Labour a chance but their patience is short with both major parties.

Starmer is more popular now than Johnson or May were when elected.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The mistake was getting rid of Boris. A lot of the public still him and he’s a good campaigner.

As for Truss, I actually agree with a lot of her observations on how to fix the economy. Her delivery was disastrous and generally incompetent to govern.

Like you said, after 14 years, the Tory party is tired, out of ideas and wrecked by infighting. Nothing seems to have got better and they deserve to be kicked out.

It is my personal opinion is that things will get worse before they get better. It’s worth noting Starmer modelled himself of Schloz when he’d been newly elected. The latter has been a disaster for Germany.

Johnson fucked himself though ultimately. I’ve said before the biggest mistake he made was not having a strong, capable team around him. He leaned towards yes men and women, many of whom just weren’t very good. He could’ve been a reasonable figure head leader in better times with a strong team, but not when you’ve got a global pandemic going on

 

[shmmeee]

Talked about, both parties pick out their golden boys/girls and parachuted into ‘safe seats’, for sure.

David Miliband was the supposed heir in 2010 and Burnham in 2015 before ‘Red Ed’ and Jezza had other ideas.

The media has David Milliband but the membership wanted to go left because that’s what memberships do after a loss. “We just weren’t fringe enough”. You’ve got people claiming it now as Starmer is about to win a landslide coming up with fantasy futures where the Nazis take over because of centrism or whatever.

Parties will find seats for their best candidates, yes.

 

[shmmeee]

FFS

 

[David O'Day]

Good old Richard Holden proving he is one of the most stupid men ever to walk the earth

 

[Philosoraptor]

..You’ve got people claiming it now as Starmer is about to win a landslide coming up with fantasy futures where the Nazis take over because of centrism or whatever....

Let's talk about the Enabling Act of 1933 (Germany).

Wasn't this passed with the help of the centrist parties?

 

[shmmeee]

Let's talk about the Enabling Act of 1933 (Germany).

Wasn't this passed with the help of the centrist parties?

Here’s what happened when Corbyn went up against Farage just to jog your memory:

2019 European Parliament election in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I now return you to your utterly delusional programming.

 

[David O'Day]

Let's talk about the Enabling Act of 1933 (Germany).

Wasn't this passed with the help of the centrist parties?

So you think the UK Parliament (both houses) will pass a law that allows Starmer to make laws without voting on them?

Are you on glue?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Here’s what happened when Corbyn went up against Farage just to jog your memory:

2019 European Parliament election in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I now return you to your utterly delusional programming.

The Nazi's actually destroyed Germany's liberal democracy and replaced it with a totalitarian dictatorship with the help of the centre parties.

Using your understanding of how to vote in the next General Election, would you say it is okay to vote for these centrist parties because they are just a little left of the Nazi's?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They were wrong to bring Truss in ! To be fair Sunak/hunt have cleaned up the mess economically. Unfortunately Sunak is the least political politician I’ve ever seen and not sure he has a grand vision - decent caretaker but maybe not much more. Whoever took over from Truss and Johnson was fucked. Reputationally the Tories were in the gutter, plus 14 years in power, people were done

He's also conspired to mess up his image too. After Johnson and Truss he was the boring but competent one... but he's found himself pandering to the nutters which then makes him look a bit like a nutter himself!

I never thought I'd be in a position where Jeremy Hunt looks eminently reasonable and capable in comparison to much of his fellow cabinet members btw! He's now a Tory moderate!