Leeds Riots (15 Viewers)

Nick

Administrator
I expect a laugh emoji from this forum's most crazed racist and bigot but... we have, in many ways... but we can do more, of course we can do more. Society can always improve.

We have a melting pot of cuisines, a variety that was unheard of for years. We have introductions of a variety of festivals that enrich us - pop along to Pride in Leamington in August for one. We showcase the best of people and allow them an opportunity, and we take on the best of other cultures and areas and tend to accept people whatever their sexuality, gender, race. Some don't, of course...

But... there is a tendency in certain places to ghetto-ise, where people of one community end up dominant with no counter-voice. Now you can see that at all levels... there are a number of country villages around Coventry that used to have a wide variety of agricultural workers, workers in the factories in Cov, the landowners, the council tenants... housing policy over a period of years means that that variety disappears, those villages become more homogenised as full of upper-middle class with no reference point... and it's fear of the unknown that causes most issues... and I can say that from direct involvement in researching various communities!

So then you throw a community, whatever community in one place and it allows ideas to become magnified, including dubious opinions. It ferments distrust on all sides, causes issues. We also don't do enough work in integrating people and, maybe more importantly, making them feel like they want to be integrated. Check the nuance there though, I'm not saying people should wait but it's the same as youth groups etc who need a place to function and what we, as a nation, don't do is try and unify society... and we haven't for a number of years.

Once people talk, there tends to be less issue because, well, people are people. That also allows less opportunity for radicalisation.

People have to want to be integrated though?

Culworth Court has become ghettoised as you say, to the point there are eastern European beggars outside each shop, rubbish thrown everywhere etc.

Surely people who move to the country have to adjust to the culture rather than just carrying on as they were and being allowed to? (This goes for brits moving abroad also)
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
And why would they? Horrendously under-funded police, prisons virtually at capacity. Fair chance you won’t get prosecuted and, if you do, they can’t do much about it. Not isolated to this, of course. There’s a societal-level lack of respect for authority and part of this comes from the knowledge that authority doesn’t have the capacity or capability to do much.
Yep bang on
Obviously fraud and tax evasion and other white collar crime is victimless not!!!!
Don’t know how it turns other than starts with me as wacko Jacko sang
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Surely it's the government's fault a bloke went out leaving kids at home and his baby ended up with a fractured skull? Then it's social services fault for taking the kids. It's everybody else's apart from the cunts who don't know who to behave it seems.

No youth clubs, kids out stabbing but the parents call them angels and defend them.

90% of the issues are due to parenting.
But you guys are great parents of course
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
Makes it OK then? Not their fault for behaving like it, governments.

If the police would have steamed in and arrested them all they would be classed as racist anyway.

If they knew they would be on the first flight back to romania I'm sure it would be a deterrent.

No it absolutely doesn’t make it ok. It’s not the root cause, but regrettably the current state of the country emboldens this type of behaviour.
 

Nick

Administrator
Mmmmmm
Expand
My dad was a fucker I’ve done ok

People who have feral kids because they can get away with anything they want.

Even in the videos yesterday, parents are encouraging kids to smash police cars. I wouldn't dare, even at 40 to do shit like that if my mum was about.

You see people going out and getting stabbed, drug dealing etc and their parents are kicking off with the police and saying their kids did nothing wrong.

They are feral.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
People have to want to be integrated though?

Culworth Court has become ghettoised as you say, to the point there are eastern European beggars outside each shop, rubbish thrown everywhere etc.

Surely people who move to the country have to adjust to the culture rather than just carrying on as they were and being allowed to? (This goes for brits moving abroad also)

The question was: What country has done multiculturalism right?

The answer was several paragraphs of excuses and blame on one country (ours) for not integrating and supporting people, without actually giving any examples of where it is successful. That more or less is an answer in itself. I still haven't met anyone who thinks net zero migration is the right approach, but to argue that people don't move here from third world societies and bring the shit elements of their cultures with them is ridiculous. We've literally seen live evidence of that from last night, and the crime rates, particularly sexual crimes against women are at astonishing levels at the moment. Many places in the UK are also unrecognisable, but when you bring that up we hit the same buffers in the debate every time.

The consequences are that parties like Reform start winning more votes unfortunately.
 

Skybluekyle

Well-Known Member
I expect a laugh emoji from this forum's most crazed racist and bigot but... we have, in many ways... but we can do more, of course we can do more. Society can always improve.

We have a melting pot of cuisines, a variety that was unheard of for years. We have introductions of a variety of festivals that enrich us - pop along to Pride in Leamington in August for one. We showcase the best of people and allow them an opportunity, and we take on the best of other cultures and areas and tend to accept people whatever their sexuality, gender, race. Some don't, of course... but you need to create a situation where it's harder for them to get a voice that's heard.

But... there is a tendency in certain places to ghetto-ise, where people of one community end up dominant with no counter-voice. Now you can see that at all levels... there are a number of country villages around Coventry that used to have a wide variety of agricultural workers, workers in the factories in Cov, the landowners, the council tenants... housing policy over a period of years means that that variety disappears, those villages become more homogenised as full of upper-middle class with no reference point... and it's fear of the unknown that causes most issues... and I can say that from direct involvement in researching various communities!

So then you throw a community, whatever community in one place and it allows ideas to become magnified, including dubious opinions. It ferments distrust on all sides, causes issues. We also don't do enough work in integrating people and, maybe more importantly, making them feel like they want to be integrated. Check the nuance there though, I'm not saying people should wait but it's the same as youth groups etc who need a place to function and what we, as a nation, don't do is try and unify society... and we haven't for a number of years.

Once people talk, there tends to be less issue because, well, people are people. That also allows less opportunity for radicalisation.
Best contribution I've seen on this site, to be fair.

Hear hear
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
People have to want to be integrated though?
They do, you're right. But we don't even meet people halfway nowadays in giving opportunity sometimes. And yes, some won't want to be but that's why you have to spread it out, stop that particular voice taking hold.

I mean it's a very different scenario but when I was in a community in the UK with the majority being Japanese, Thai, Chinese etc... it was them who went to the theatre, cinema, opera, pop concerts... the British stayed drinking in the pub.

They were integrating as best they could and, maybe more importantly, they had the financial means to do so. But there was still plenty of get out of this place, this isn't your home directed at them along with some passive aggressive racism.

And yes, I'd also fund language courses and make it compulsory that everyone who wishes to settle long term in this country can speak the language and goes to those lessons (as bad as people who move to Spain and are able to ask for una beer)... but that's sometimes made hard because we make it hard too - I can think of a group of Bosnian refugees who were just thrown into a primary school class, not knowing a word of English, and expected to somehow catch up - can't imagine why they all bonded together as a group(!)

In every bit of society you'll get no hope shits... everywhere. It seems, on first impression, this bloke for who it all kicked off is one of those no-hope shits and that's the case regardless of the colour of his skin. But we need policies to make sure their voice is margial, not shouting loud at others who might be liable to be influenced. Merge it together and yeah you still have the hardcore racists and the dangerous Islamists... but they're less able to take control.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
People who have feral kids because they can get away with anything they want.

Even in the videos yesterday, parents are encouraging kids to smash police cars. I wouldn't dare, even at 40 to do shit like that if my mum was about.

You see people going out and getting stabbed, drug dealing etc and their parents are kicking off with the police and saying their kids did nothing wrong.

They are feral.
So I’d agree that there is a small minority of parents like that possibly 10-15% at most
 

Nick

Administrator
They do, you're right. But we don't even meet people halfway nowadays in giving opportunity sometimes. And yes, some won't want to be but that's why you have to spread it out, stop that particular voice taking hold.

I mean it's a very different scenario but when I was in a community in the UK with the majority being Japanese, Thai, Chinese etc... it was them who went to the theatre, cinema, opera, pop concerts... the British stayed drinking in the pub.

They were integrating as best they could and, maybe more importantly, they had the financial means to do so. But there was still plenty of get out of this place, this isn't your home directed at them along with some passive aggressive racism.

And yes, I'd also fund language courses and make it compulsory that everyone who wishes to settle long term in this country can speak the language and goes to those lessons (as bad as people who move to Spain and are able to ask for una beer)... but that's sometimes made hard because we make it hard too - I can think of a group of Bosnian refugees who were just thrown into a primary school class, not knowing a word of English, and expected to somehow catch up - can't imagine why they all bonded together as a group(!)

In every bit of society you'll get no hope shits... everywhere. But we need policies to make sure their voice is margial, not shouting loud at others who might be liable to be influenced. Merge it together and yeah you still have the hardcore racists and the dangerous Islamists... but they're less able to take control.

You would think housing, feeding, paying for kids, healthcare etc would be enough to get people to want to speak the language? They shouldn't be allowed to move here until they can speak English, surely?

Why didn't the bosnian refugee's parents teach the kids English before they went to school? People want everything handed to them and done for them.

This is also the same if people went to live abroad and didn't try and speak the Language.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
My daughter won't be out smashing up police cars and wasn't left alone as a baby to get a fractured skull.

What's your point?
Ok and you know the admiration I hold you in

the point is as a society we blame everyone else for everything that happens and never look within to see if there’s anything I can do differently

What are you and grendel doing to help multiculturalism work?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Why didn't the bosnian refugee's parents teach the kids English before they went to school?
Because they were too busy fleeing the shelling of their country and the ethnic cleansing... and there's more which I really can't put on this forum.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Around by me Pete in tile hill , the naughtiest kids have the most moronic parents , so there is a correlation
Of course I don’t dispute bad parenting leads to bad outcomes
However I don’t think some of the shit parenting we received was something to be proud of much of it was shit
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
You would think housing, feeding, paying for kids, healthcare etc would be enough to get people to want to speak the language? They shouldn't be allowed to move here until they can speak English, surely?

Why didn't the bosnian refugee's parents teach the kids English before they went to school? People want everything handed to them and done for them.

This is also the same if people went to live abroad and didn't try and speak the Language.
As long as it applies to all the Brits going on holiday and living abroad and not bothering to learn the language.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
I think this thread shows why comments are disabled on the news sites.

There's so much hate and anger, here and elsewhere, and people jumping to conclusions based on an unproven snippet on Twitter, or some shit-stirring c**t like Tommy Robinson banging on about 'Muslims'.

There's a really simple concept that some people in this country and possibly hereabouts need to grasp:

Muslims, Romanians, or even white Brits, are not a homogeneous group. That is, they don't share identical beliefs, or opinions, or behave in exactly the same way.

Implying that they do, is frankly, exposing one's idiocy and racism for all to see. My advice to anyone is this; if you're uncomfortable with being thought of as a racist, or an idiot, try really, really hard not to talk like one.
 

Nick

Administrator
Ok and you know the admiration I hold you in

the point is as a society we blame everyone else for everything that happens and never look within to see if there’s anything I can do differently

What are you and grendel doing to help multiculturalism work?

Yeah it's my fault that people don't look after their kids and worryingly fire out more than they can look after / control.

My ever increasing taxes are more than likely housing, feeding, clothing, educating (if they go to school that is).

That isn't just aimed at migrants, lazy c**t brits too.
 

Nick

Administrator
As long as it applies to all the Brits going on holiday and living abroad and not bothering to learn the language.

Literally said it in my last line, of course it should.

People can't moan about somebody coming here and not speaking English and the culture but then moving to France, not speaking French or respecting their culture.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Literally said it in my last line, of course it should.

People can't moan about somebody coming here and not speaking English and the culture but then moving to France, not speaking French or respecting their culture.
I agree, unfortunately the majority don't even both to learn a few phrases. Imagine loads of Spanish people turning up in restaurants in England and demanding that people speak to them in Spanish.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Yeah it's my fault that people don't look after their kids and worryingly fire out more than they can look after / control.

My ever increasing taxes are more than likely housing, feeding, clothing, educating (if they go to school that is).

That isn't just aimed at migrants, lazy c**t brits too.
Course it’s not your fault but I take it the answer to my question is nothing
You sound like Scrooge saying I pay my taxes what more can I do?
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
The main problems we are facing as communities with multiculturalism is how fast the country has changed in such a small amount of time .

It's created a lot of issues , I think it's all been handled terribly
 

Nick

Administrator
Because they were too busy fleeing the shelling of their country and the ethnic cleansing... and there's more which I really can't put on this forum.

So when they get to England did they do much to integrate their kids or help them with English?

It's not like they were fleeing a rocket on a Sunday and the kids were in School on the Monday.

What are schools meant to do? It was one of the issues I had with my daughter's first school, you had some kids in the class who couldn't speak a word of English which meant my daughter barely had any benefit as they got all of the resources. (There were also some polish kids who were fluent in both English and Polish when they were about 5 which was impressive).
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
The main problems we are facing as communities with multiculturalism is how fast the country has changed in such a small amount of time .

It's created a lot of issues , I think it's all been handled terribly
Fair challenge but we all have to make it work
 

Nick

Administrator
The main problems we are facing as communities with multiculturalism is how fast the country has changed in such a small amount of time .

It's created a lot of issues , I think it's all been handled terribly


Last year I went to Cambridge for a Golf Weekend, we were meant to stay at a posh golf resort but had to move because the hotel was being used for migrants. When we pulled into the course it was fucking shocking, it had been turned into a shanty town. Bikes, shopping trolleys, tents outside, rubbish everywhere. Then you had people kicking off because they wanted more meals or to decorate their hotel rooms ffs.

There's a massive lack of respect (again, this isn't solely down to migrants). This was a place we were going to have to pay a fair whack to stay in the same rooms and then pay for the same food.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
So when they get to England did they do much to integrate their kids or help them with English?

It's not like they were fleeing a rocket on a Sunday and the kids were in School on the Monday.

What are schools meant to do? It was one of the issues I had with my daughter's first school, you had some kids in the class who couldn't speak a word of English which meant my daughter barely had any benefit as they got all of the resources. (There were also some polish kids who were fluent in both English and Polish when they were about 5 which was impressive).
The issue is, is that actions of a minority end up tarring the majority, who will very much want their kids to integrate and have the best possible life.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
Makes it OK then? Not their fault for behaving like it, governments.

If the police would have steamed in and arrested them all they would be classed as racist anyway.

If they knew they would be on the first flight back to romania I'm sure it would be a deterrent.

Mate, do you really believe that the reason the police didn't arrest people in the middle of a riot, was because they'd be considered as racists?

Here's the picture: You're seriously outnumbered against an already angry crowd. What are you going to do, "Cry God for Harry, England, and Saint George!", and just pile in? I'm not sure you've thought this through...
 

Nick

Administrator
Course it’s not your fault but I take it the answer to my question is nothing
You sound like Scrooge saying I pay my taxes what more can I do?

Pete, I have my own family, my own job, my own bills, my own challenges in life, my own mortgage. I donate to multiple charities as well.

Maybe if I was given somewhere to live for free, meals every day, clothes and money for doing fuck all I'd have time to be a martyr ;)

Call it selfish but being focused on my own shit is probably one of the reasons my daughter isn't out thinking it's OK to smash up police cars.
 

Nick

Administrator
Mate, do you really believe that the reason the police didn't arrest people in the middle of a riot, was because they'd be considered as racists?

Here's the picture: You're seriously outnumbered against an already angry crowd. What are you going to do, "Cry God for Harry, England, and Saint George!", and just pile in? I'm not sure you've thought this through...

The police were there before the riots even started.

I agree totally about resources and not having enough police but let's face it people will set buses on fire because they can. What's going to happen to them? Fuck all.

It's easier to sit in a van and pick off people doing 34 in a 30.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
The main problems we are facing as communities with multiculturalism is how fast the country has changed in such a small amount of time .

It's created a lot of issues , I think it's all been handled terribly

Of more concern is that, now it’s entrenched, how do you unpick it?
 

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