CET: The deal turned down by sisu revealed (1 Viewer)

[Waldorf]

I know there is a lot of fear about SISU getting their hands on the Ricoh but what exactly is everyone scared of compared to the situation we have now?

Give half the Ricoh to a bunch of shysters who couldn't make even a half decent job of running a football club? You must be joking. It's SISU who would get the stadium, not the club, so we'd be in an even worse position than we are now.

 

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[torchomatic]

For your own sake please do not see where I'm coming from. They'll savage ya!

Torch I can see where you're coming from, but- it's not about the rent.

By the way, OSB you're doing a fantastic job. Thanks

 

[Sky Blues]

And the club is at risk because of the high rent. What's the difference?

A stadium rent of £400,000 or a wage bill approaching £4.2million - do you seriously think the former would be the financial figure that really threatened this club's survival?! C'mon Torch. :thinking about:

 

[CovLis86]

Sisu have shown their true colours. They are a poison, no interest in the club. Thats an incredibly generous offer. They are cut throat and will do what it takes. We need them out.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Can only deal with what is now though really..... we may be stuck here for years. If we get promoted or even come close the club will benefit from big increase in its income streams - rent going up to £1m wouldnt be a problem

We dont know the increased income streams either that ACL have given up or worked deals with the club to let CCFC have. But they have done it and are prepared to do it further from what is reported. Yet SISU still bleat complain and reject

In the scheme of things ACL have pretty much cut things to the bone in terms of their profit and cashflow from CCFC - yet it still isnt good enough for TF ? Also take it one step further if they have made these offers then would they they make the offers to put their own business at risk ? Can they afford it ? You have to assume that they can do this and still have a viable business. That means in terms of profits annually they would be at risk for £400k - a lot easier to make up than £1,2m. Can ACL survive without CCFC ?:thinking about:seems a definite possibility

 

[coop]

There getting a premiership quality stadium for £400,000 a year not bad we are not paying for a stadium like Peterborough for feck sake TF needs to piss off twat I'll be there today in the cold while he sits in his gentlemans club in London

 

[CarpyCov84]

Said from the very start fisher is a snake fuck the c**t off sharpish

 

[Sky Blues]

How you (or any one else) can complain about ACL leaking details to the press, given SISU's past history, is beyond me.

I wonder if they've been listening to this in the SISU offices?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDHhM5aB_cs
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjBwe6IL10o



(Both should be safe)

 

[Diehard Si]

If we'd of been promoted to the premier league, would SISU have demanded to pay MORE rent as it was under the league average (if there is one, but just making a point).

The offer was more than generous and the club could easily survive on that. It's £7.5k per week. Or about 2 average players wages. That won't break the bank.

SISU wanted the stadium. Now they can't get it they are utterly screwed. They will take the club down and blame ACL. Otherwise they would have accepted this way more than generous offer.

 

[torchomatic]

OK, let's all have it this way. We'll pay the rent (very reasonable for the stadium as most of you keep saying), keep paying it, but then sell everyone to pay for it. We'll try and survive in this massive stadium with around 8-10K a week and...and this is the biggie....we must not moan. Deal?

 

[Black6Osprey]

Give half the Ricoh to a bunch of shysters who couldn't make even a half decent job of running a football club? You must be joking. It's SISU who would get the stadium, not the club, so we'd be in an even worse position than we are now.

How could it be worse? The club dont own it now and are reliant on SISU funding our losses every season.

People seem to be confusing wanting the best for the club and some bible reading morality group.

I dont care about charities, ACL or fat councillors. I only want my club to survive and go forward not drop down to the Alko Aluminium Ladders League and change their name and have a 10 man party that we got rid of SISU and we have to bring our own drinks.

 

[wingy]

kILBANES GONE ,jUST NEED BELL TO GO TORCH ,QUIDS IN, CHANGE FOR A BARGAIN SIGNING.

 

[torchomatic]

I think they'll ALL will be going at this rate.

kILBANES GONE ,jUST NEED BELL TO GO TORCH ,QUIDS IN, CHANGE FOR A BARGAIN SIGNING.

 

[stupot07]

A stadium rent of £400,000 or a wage bill approaching £4.2million - do you seriously think the former would be the financial figure that really threatened this club's survival?! C'mon Torch. :thinking about:

I'm pretty sure that £4.2m (can't remember them actually confirming a figure tbh) was the playing budget not the wage budget and includes wages, bonuses, purchases, signing on fees, agents fees, etc.

The last time they slashed the wage bill, everyone moaned when we got relegated. They will bring it down but that will take time to get the likes of bell, shredders and wood off the wage bill and replace them with cheaper alternatives.

 

[Otis]

OK, let's all have it this way. We'll pay the rent (very reasonable for the stadium as most of you keep saying), keep paying it, but then sell everyone to pay for it. We'll try and survive in this massive stadium with around 8-10K a week and...and this is the biggie....we must not moan. Deal?

No, pay the reduced rent to save the club for now but continue to negotiate while trying to find other revenue streams and/or investment.

The less the rent is the better things will be, even if it leaves us still in a black hole. A reduction is obviously better than paying the whole thing. Get the reduction then try and negotiate for both a further cut if possible and owning half the stadium.

 

[stupot07]

If we'd of been promoted to the premier league, would SISU have demanded to pay MORE rent as it was under the league average (if there is one, but just making a point).

The offer was more than generous and the club could easily survive on that. It's £7.5k per week. Or about 2 average players wages. That won't break the bank.

SISU wanted the stadium. Now they can't get it they are utterly screwed. They will take the club down and blame ACL. Otherwise they would have accepted this way more than generous offer.

No they probably wouldn't of buy £1.28m is probably about right for a PL club .

 

[wingy]

how could it be worse? The club dont own it now and are reliant on sisu funding our losses every season.

People seem to be confusing wanting the best for the club and some bible reading morality group.

I dont care about charities, acl or fat councillors. I only want my club to survive and go forward not drop down to alko aluminium ladders league and change their name and have a 10 man party that we got rid of sisu and we have to bring our own drinks.

the responsibility of owning a football club reqiure the club owners to fund its own losses ,bristol city just posted £14m.on a turnover of around £10m.
Overheads were around £6m.,ours are £4m. If you include the old rent. They had the chance to cut losses last year but chose to stay they are responsible for their own demise.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

ACL can survive without ccfc but its a daft idea! My question is what is the most they can get each year? Sisu can't be given access to the land-screw them! We are saddled with them for years-why did we do it?

 

[Black6Osprey]

the responsibility of owning a football club reqiure the club owners to fund its own losses ,bristol city just posted £14m.on a turnover of around £10m.
Overheads were around £6m.,ours are £4m. If you include the old rent. They had the chance to cut losses last year but chose to stay they are responsible for their own demise.

Yes but most people seem to saying SISU OUT more than CLUB IN. People would rather we drop out of sight just because they dont like SISU. I dont like them either but I dont want the club to disappear just to get rid of them.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No, pay the reduced rent to save the club for now but continue to negotiate while trying to find other revenue streams and/or investment.

The less the rent is the better things will be, even if it leaves us still in a black hole. A reduction is obviously better than paying the whole thing. Get the reduction then try and negotiate for both a further cut if possible and owning half the stadium.

Sensible, but!!! I think like others that sisu don't care for the football club and acl are not going to let them just take the land. All we can look forward to is just about competing in league 1 for the foreseeable future- joy!!!

 

[wingy]

Yes but most people seem to saying SISU OUT more than CLUB IN. People would rather we drop out of sight just because they dont like SISU. I dont like them either but I dont want the club to disappear just to get rid of them.[/Q

If the club dissapears it really will be their own doing and for that reason alone they really should'nt be here .

 

[Sky Blues]

I'm pretty sure that £4.2m (can't remember them actually confirming a figure tbh) was the playing budget not the wage budget and includes wages, bonuses, purchases, signing on fees, agents fees, etc.

I think you're probably right. Yes, playing budget was probably the more appropriate term for me to use, but that doesn't really change the point that staffing is by far the club's biggest outgoing and therefore the biggest threat to its survival, not the rent at the level offered by ACL last weekend.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Here is a thought ......

Budgeted loss £3m

Saving on rent by accepting new deal £858k
New income source from new deal say £100k
Other income sources already received £100k
Say L1 average wages (seems only fair as we keep claiming average this and that - what 2.2m - Tranmere btw was £1.5m last year) so say saving £2.0m
That is of course ignoring the player sales this financial year

That would be a breakeven secure club - self financing ....... and clearly success can be achieved on that level of wages (eg Tranmere) ...... and of course success means more fans paying out means more money means more to be spent on the team to create more success. Imagine the crowd numbers at the Ricoh if we were in Tranmere's position. Say average crowds 15k that is nearly £2m extra income

Or is that just too simple ?

Do we choose to pay out more than we need to, do we choose to reject good deals, do we choose to rely on SISU loans? .............. if so why ?

 

[wingy]

Erudite as ever OSB.

 

[RichieGunns]

Im sick and tired of SISU. I just can't see this ending well and I can see our beloved club dissapearing over all this. The sad thing is SISU, Fisher and Waggot will never be made to pay for it. Once our clubs gone, they pack up their things and go off to destroy someone elses dreams...

 

[inkystephens]

The figure of £170K being the average paid by League 1 clubs is not accurate. There are 18 clubs who own their own grounds they should not be included in the calculation. Therefore ONLY 6 clubs are paying on average £170K. One club are paying £450K so the other 5 clubs are paying on average £114K. So with the exception of the one club £400K for the Ricoh does seem very high. The one club paying £450K is Walsall. The facilities at the Ricoh are far superior than the Bescote Stadium, so come on lets get round the table and sort this out. My gut feeling is that a rent of £300K while in League 1 with an increase when we are promoted to tne Championship and again if we ever get into the Premiership.

 

[wingy]

Im sick and tired of SISU. I just can't see this ending well and I can see our beloved club dissapearing over all this. The sad thing is SISU, Fisher and Waggot will never be made to pay for it. Once our clubs gone, they pack up their things and go off to destroy someone elses dreams...

Join the trust you may need it to save your club sooner than you think.

 

[mrtrench]

I can see it now. First they argue the rent down to rock bottom rates. Then they offer a derisory sum for the stadium "based upon income" - which of course they drove down themselves.

Taxpayers must not line SISU's pockets. I'd rather see the club go bust.

 

[wingy]

The figure of £170K being the average paid by League 1 clubs is not accurate. There are 18 clubs who own their own grounds they should not be included in the calculation. Therefore ONLY 6 clubs are paying on average £170K. One club are paying £450K so the other 5 clubs are paying on average £114K. So with the exception of the one club £400K for the Ricoh does seem very high. The one club paying £450K is Walsall. The facilities at the Ricoh are far superior than the Bescote Stadium, so come on lets get round the table and sort this out. My gut feeling is that a rent of £300K while in League 1 with an increase when we are promoted to tne Championship and again if we ever get into the Premiership.

They won't accept it I'm affraid ,the offer at the weekend is final followed by a statutory demand,people need to think of their club here not some failed outfit who are losing everything.

Stand up for your club theres an out of town team trying to wreck it.

 

[Jim]

The figure of £170K being the average paid by League 1 clubs is not accurate. There are 18 clubs who own their own grounds they should not be included in the calculation. Therefore ONLY 6 clubs are paying on average £170K. One club are paying £450K so the other 5 clubs are paying on average £114K. So with the exception of the one club £400K for the Ricoh does seem very high. The one club paying £450K is Walsall. The facilities at the Ricoh are far superior than the Bescote Stadium, so come on lets get round the table and sort this out. My gut feeling is that a rent of £300K while in League 1 with an increase when we are promoted to tne Championship and again if we ever get into the Premiership.

The other clubs are paying £114k for what sort of stadia?
What capacity do they hold? How old is the ground and stands? Do they need overhauling and upgrading upon promotions to Championship?

This is why the Ricoh is more expensive. It is a top notch stadium in its prime, with a 32,000 capacity, that is immediately available for championship and premiership use.

Cannot just look at what league we are in in isolation.

The offer made of £400k should have been snapped up in an instant and then the club could address the real problems of team success and the resultant income stream it brings.

Costs are a small problem here, crowd related turnover is the major issue that needs resolving.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The figure of £170K being the average paid by League 1 clubs is not accurate. There are 18 clubs who own their own grounds they should not be included in the calculation. Therefore ONLY 6 clubs are paying on average £170K. One club are paying £450K so the other 5 clubs are paying on average £114K. So with the exception of the one club £400K for the Ricoh does seem very high. The one club paying £450K is Walsall. The facilities at the Ricoh are far superior than the Bescote Stadium, so come on lets get round the table and sort this out. My gut feeling is that a rent of £300K while in League 1 with an increase when we are promoted to tne Championship and again if we ever get into the Premiership.

Dont think you should exclude the others as such...... most of them will have mortgaged those grounds in order to keep going (a cost we dont have) and that is in a sense a financial rent. Ideally each ground needs to be given a notional rent value and then averaged out. Never going to happen though. The £170k is not in reality the figure for the average rent of a ground in L1 - the real figure doesnt really exist

That said I do totally agree the rent needs sorting out - personally i think the latest deal is more than acceptable. Makes you wonder why it isnt happening

 

[torchomatic]

Yeah! Right on! ACL! ACL! ACL!

Taxpayers must not line SISU's pockets. I'd rather see the club go bust.

 

[torchomatic]

All very nice, but we will never fill it. We are not a top notch, in it's prime Club with 32K fans.

The other clubs are paying £114k for what sort of stadia?
What capacity do they hold? How old is the ground and stands? Do they need overhauling and upgrading upon promotions to Championship?

This is why the Ricoh is more expensive. It is a top notch stadium in its prime, with a 32,000 capacity, that is immediately available for championship and premiership use.

Cannot just look at what league we are in in isolation.

The offer made of £400k should have been snapped up in an instant and then the club could address the real problems of team success and the resultant income stream it brings.

Costs are a small problem here, crowd related turnover is the major issue that needs resolving.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

All very nice, but we will never fill it. We are not a top notch, in it's prime Club with 32K fans.

If this club ever found its way into the PL it would do so every week.

 

[wingy]

You're backing the wrong horse here Torch. they're over ,there will be a bigger party in this town when they go than when thatcher dies.