skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Same thing isn’t? All woke means is you’re not an arsehole as far as I can tell. Certainly by the definition of woke that those who band it around as an insult use.
Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter tisza
- Start date
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
No I'm just a realist and have a low bar for politicians. Almost all of them are lying psychopaths that have committed all sorts of horrific acts.
I just don't feel the need to get hysterical about it.
Has @Otis ever had a similar meltdown about Biden and his disgusting behaviour over the years? Or does he ignore things like Bidens daughter accusing her father of having inappropriate showers with her? Exactly the same things can be laid at Bidens feet and worse (given Bidens love of war).
Maybe he has said similar about Biden and fair play if he has, but if people are going to ignore one side and get hysterical over the other then I'm just going to sit here and laugh at you.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
75 million disagree
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SkyBlueCharlie9
Well-Known Member
Trump support from the white male 30+ lower/working class is concerning - but they have been rather forgotten and neglected by successive governments. Being in relative poverty, less educated you can understand why the Trump cultish, bullshit, lies resonates with them. However any middle class, women, non white people that support him are really hard to comprehend the thinking behind such decisions given the facts and evidence of Trump. The entertaining interviews by Jordan Keppler/Michael Shure whilst snapshots of the craziest extreme Trump supporters, offer a scary glimpse into the magnetic hold Trump has over people. Lots of people are fearful of the anger the right will have if Trump loses. November will be extraordinarily interesting for all the wrong reasons. Harris is going to push Trump hard, and is 100% more sharp and intelligent than him. His team are sh!tt!ng themselves.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I mean that obvious bollocks designed to absolve you from having any discrimination in your political choices whatsoever.
“they’re all the same” just means “I can’t be bothered to discriminate”. Of course not all politicians are psychopaths FFS. Grow up.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Never been a fan of Biden.
Don't see how you can say he's worse though.
I honestly wouldn't vote for either of them, or anyone guilty of completely inappropriate behaviour.
I didn't know of the shower thing. First I have heard of it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
82 million agree in that case.
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
Getting into "who is worse" is subjective and there no point us hashing that out. What I would say is that for all his many fault (which I don't disagree he has - I'm not a trump supporter) trump didn't start new wars and has been pretty vocal against war. Whereas there's never been a war that Biden didn't like, he supported the bombing of Serbia, has played a key role in inflaming conflict in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Ukraine and many others.
Millions are dead because of the cabal that Biden is a part of.
Regarding showering with his daughter see:
Fact Check: Posts Claim Contents of 'Ashley Biden's Diary' Have Been Verified. Here Are the Facts
The existence of a diary and the authenticity of purported facsimiles of a diary are two entirely different questions.
Even if you missed this surely you haven't missed his extremely creepy habit of touching, kissing and sniffing women and especially young girls?
Otis
Well-Known Member
I only heard about that on here and relatively recently too.Getting into "who is worse" is subjective and there no point us hashing that out. What I would say is that for all his many fault (which I don't disagree he has - I'm not a trump supporter) trump didn't start new wars and has been pretty vocal against war. Whereas there's never been a war that Biden didn't like, he supported the bombing of Serbia, has played a key role in inflaming conflict in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Ukraine and many others.
Millions are dead because of the cabal that Biden is a part of.
Regarding showering with his daughter see:
Fact Check: Posts Claim Contents of 'Ashley Biden's Diary' Have Been Verified. Here Are the Facts
The existence of a diary and the authenticity of purported facsimiles of a diary are two entirely different questions.uk.news.yahoo.com
Even if you missed this surely you haven't missed his extremely creepy habit of touching, kissing and sniffing women and especially young girls?
If true, it is indeed very disturbing.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Must be one of the most evil humans beings that has ever been elected in the western world since Adolf Hitler. Yet millions support him, which speaks volumes.
I hope he meets with an end becoming of an arrogant, selfish, misogynistic animal .
Otis
Well-Known Member
I don't know about evil, but he's a horrible excuse for a human being.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I totaly agree
But your missing the point.
Do you judge someone by what they say, or what they do.
Is it worse to be misogynistic and racist, or to bomb and kill women and children?
Do you want a president who stops wars, or one that supports genocide?
Ultimately (unfortunately) there's only 2 to choose from, so take your pick.
But the arguing on this forum just fuels the continuous division that deflects from the world's current issues.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Okay, to add context Trump ordered cruise missile strikes in Syria, dropped the largest bomb in US history (aside from the nuclear bombs they dropped on Japan) on Afghanistan, ordered more troops to Afghanistan and softened the rules on what US troops in Afghanistan could and couldn’t attack. So the notion that he stopped wars is misplaced. That on top of him being a rapist, a misogamist, a racist and a crook.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You can add into that his escalation of tensions with Iran by assassinating officials on Iranian soil. If Putin used a drone to execute a British general in London I think we know how that would go down.
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
The key issue isnt that he stopped wars but rather that he didnt start any new ones, which is quite the feat for any US president.
I'm not supportive of Trumps military actions but to play devils advocate:
Syria was an ongoing war and his cruise missile strikes were just a performance To appease media and establishment demands to reapond to Asad. Lets not forget the MSM delight when it happened, with CNN describing him as now being "presidential".
The MOAB use was in an ongoing war, it's a conventional weapon and no civilians were killed. I don't see the issue with it being used. He also made the call.on withdrawing from Afghanistan and wanted to withdraw US troops from Syria/Iraq too. Didn't work out but he clearly intended to out an end to these wars. If I remember rightly he was undermined at every step when it came to withdrawing troops from these wars.
That said - he was quite proud of the illegal occupation of Syria and boasted about stealing their oil quite brazenly which is a terrible look.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Well just to add some more context, do you want the war in Ukraine to stop (bearing in mind that Ukraine can't and won't win) and the genocide in gaza to end, or do you want them to continue.
That choice is simple, Trump stops them, Harris continues them.
Under the current regime, America needs continuous wars for its massive military contracts and subsequent corruption to continue. Trump (for all his manyfaults) is a threat to that.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Trump would be far more supportive of Israel continuing ‘the war.’
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Trump moved the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to stick two fingers up to Palestinians which caused mass protests leading to the deaths of Palestinians. Trump and Netanyahu were rekindling their love affair yesterday. Harris snubbed Netanyahu yesterday.
The only person that can stop the war in Ukraine is the aggressor, Putin. Anyone who thinks Ukrainians are just going to sit back, let their country be occupied by Russia is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Trump also sold more arms to foreign nations in his one term than Obama did in 2 terms. He also defied congress to do it in some cases.
The evidence does not back up any of your assumptions.
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
Anyone who think that Ukraine can win or should continue to fight until their population has all been dragged into vans and sent to the front to die with next to no training is also living in cuckoo land, and quite frankly evil.
We're it not for the encouragement, and false promises of the west, Ukraine wouldn't now be in this impossible situation. So yes, the west (usa) can put a stop to the war. Ukraine was set to agree to a peace deal back in March 2022 until the west intervened.
On gaza I completely agree actually - Trump will give Israel everything it wants and more.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But the issue there is believing that that peace deal would have meant anything. It wouldn't. Putin would have been back a few years later looking to take more territory and the deaths would have continued.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The only people that ever claimed that an agreement had been reached was Russia, if you want to believe them knock yourself out but it’s a fool’s folly. They drafted a piece document that was never finalised and what really scuppered it was the uncovering of mass war crimes by Russia in Bucha.
fatso
Well-Known Member
That's absolutely not true.
A peace agreement was offered by Russia quite early in the conflict. (At the time the massive column of armoured vehicles was halted, and didn't move for days)
Ukraine was ready to accept the terms. Until Borris Johnson convinced Zelensky that the west would support him unequivocally with all the military equipment needed to defeat Russia and push them out of Ukraine.
On the strength of that promise Ukraine rejected the peace deal.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Again. If you want to swallow the Russian doctrine then knock yourself out. But it’s a fool’s errand.
If you’re talking about the Dmitry Kozak negotiations it was actually Putin who scuppered it because it didn’t include the annex of all the territories Putin wanted.
The only agreement that ever came close was the one being negotiated in Turkey which even got as far as a draft document but when the extent of Russian war crimes that started being uncovered in April 2022 in Bucha Ukraine withdrew from negotiations due to public pressure in Ukraine.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
What did the Turkey daft state in regards of who got what land, who could do future deals with who etc? Genuine question, not looking for any gotchas.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Couldn’t tell you on the land without looking it up. IIRC there was an agreement that Ukraine wouldn’t join NATO so in reality all the concessions were on Ukraine, Russia wasn’t giving up anything. As I said when the genocide started being uncovered in Bucha along with other war crimes including mass rape, the illegal deportation of children to Russia etc. understandably the Ukrainian people lost faith in the process putting their government under pressure to withdraw, which they did. Any other version of events is Russian propaganda.
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
I don't think so, but it's possible.
The Ukrainians themselves have admitted this as well as the former Israeli PM who was acting as mediator in the negotiations. Listen to people like arestovich or anyone close to the Ukrainian delegation at the time.
Ukraine murdered one of their own negotiators and walked away from the deal after Boris turned up. I'm sure that's just a total coincidence.
NYT publishes purported draft of Ukraine-Russia peace treaty from 2022
The Wall Street Journal reported on the content of the unpublished 2022 peace terms already back in March, but the NYT published the 17-page draft in full, verified by participants in the talks.
kyivindependent.com
Speaking of coincidences, I'm sure that Ukrainian militia units posting on the Internet about "going into bucha to remove collaborators" and photos of dead civilians found with Russian MREs scattered around them that they had been issued by the Russians is also just an odd coincidence?
I guess the Russians were feeding them and executing them at the same time for the fun of it? Maybe they were - I don't know. Also interesting to note is the amount of bodies wearing white tape round their arm as an identifier - what's that about?
Really, what does "clearing sabateurs and accomplices from Bucha sound like to you? I've seen hundreds of examples of how Ukraine treats "collaborators" and have no doubt about what this means.
Its very interesting, how the mayor of Bucha was interviewed after the Russian withdrawal and somehow forgot to mention the massacre and said nothing about mass graves and genodical behaviour from the Russians.
Russia definitely has committed war crimes (as has ukraine) and it wouldn't surprise me if a rogue unit went mad and had a My Lai moment. But there a lot of things that don't add up about Bucha and if you trust the ukraine authorities I've got a bridge in Galicia to sell you. This is the same government that brought us the Ghost of Kiev and a million other fantasies.
We were told that hundreds were systematically murdered, and the Bucha memorial does indeed have 590 names on it, yet the UN disagrees and puts it at between 70-150, and we know that many civilians in Bucha died as a result of shelling.
Dozens of Bucha citizens killed by metal darts from Russia rockets
The pathologists, who are conducting postmortem analyses of bodies which were exhumed from mass graves in Bucha, found the darts - known as 'flechettes' - in the corpses' head and chest cavities.
So how many were actually killed intentionally by the Russians?
How many were caught in crossfire or by shelling?
Did the Ukrainian authorities have any part in killing what they deemed saboteurs ?
Did the Zelensky regime amplify this event to conjur up support for the war? They certainly had motive.
What it needs is a thorough, impartial investigation, which unfortunately is never going to happen.
Accusing Russia of genocide is frankly ridiculous. If they wanted to kill mass amounts of Ukrainian civilians they could easily do it, and Ukraine would look like gaza. Civilian deaths in this conflict are currently around 11,000 (unusually low civilian to combatant death ratio), which when you consider how Israel has killed at least 10 times that in 1/4 of the time I would say Russia are pretty poor at genociding if that's what they are trying to do.
The good news is that almost half of Ukrainians do want to negotiate.
44% of Ukrainians believe it's time to start official peace talks with Russia, survey finds
At the same time, a majority of respondents were also opposed to the current ceasefire conditions laid out by Russian President Vladimir Putin, which would entail the complete Ukrainian withdrawal from the four regions that are partially occupied by Russia.
kyivindependent.com
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
MSN
www.msn.com
A
neo-Nazi group known as NS/WP (National-Socialism/White Power), which is classified as a terrorist organization in Russia, has claimed responsibility for the recent assassination of Irina Farion, a former member of Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada. The claim was reported by [COLOR=var(--accent-foreground-rest)]Lenta.https://lenta.ru/news/2024/07/25/ot...i-dalshe-nakazyvat-vseh-kto-prodaval-ukrainu/[/COLOR]Punish Those Who Betray the Country
According to the group, Farion was targeted because she allegedly "incited hatred based on linguistic differences within Ukrainian society."The group has also vowed to punish those who they believe have "betrayed the country since the Maidan protests" and has declared the beginning of a "white revolution."
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OpenLine - Why the Rise of neo-Nazi Protests? P1
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A video purportedly showing the shooting of Farion has been released, though its authenticity remains difficult to verify. Ukrainian media sources suggest that the assassination was carried out with professional precision, indicating that the shooter may have had prior experience with firearms.
The authorities are investigating the possibility that the shooter had accomplices, and it has been revealed that some surveillance cameras at the crime scene were malfunctioning at the time of the attack.
Issued Wanted Notice
The Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs has issued a wanted notice for the suspect, described as a young man approximately 20 years old, standing between 170-180 centimeters tall, and of a slender build.Witnesses reported that the suspect had been surveilling Farion’s residence for several weeks prior to the attack and was seen wearing gloves and using an unsilenced weapon.
During Farion’s funeral on July 22 in Lviv, attendees chanted neo-Nazi slogans, including calls for Russians to leave the city.
A banner equating Farion with Stepan Bandera, a controversial figure from the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), was also displayed. Following the funeral, the Lviv City Council voted to consider renaming a street in Farion’s honor, pending consultations with her family to select an appropriate location.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You mean in Ukraine? I think she was younger - she was well before the conflict wanting Russian language and cultures banned in Ukraine
Yeah I'd found that out, just curious who'd have sanctioned it really?
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
There's going to be a lot of infighting in Ukraine as their situation gets worse and worse. There is a lot of tension between neo nazi/far right militias and the zelensky faction or anyone else that they deem to not be fully committed to their fight so it's fully.plausible that the claim above has some value.
A lot of these killings won't make much sense from the outside, as scores get settled under the guise of clearing out "enemies of the maidan revolution".
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Don’t something like 40% of the population speak Russian as their first language?
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
Which is precisely why Ukrainian nationalists want it banned.
You should see how Russian speaking Ukrainians from the east get treated when they speak their language in western Ukraine.