Southport Stabbing (116 Viewers)

[rob9872]

I've already said I think Nick should get some more moderators. It also allows him to express his own views more easily, potentially, without being the one moderating himself(!)

I mean... I could ask to be one but do you think it would go down well with some posters...? Lets have you, me, and ESB just for the lols.

Will certainly be a lot less traffic as most will be banned

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Will certainly be a lot less traffic as most will be banned

I'd only be banning my fellow mods tbf, so it'd be a race as to who got to use their powers first.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I assume when Labour let voting at 16 be introduced this will need to change as well as he is an adult?

We'll have to see what the law says at that time, won't we? But it wasn't in the King's Speech so not happening for a while.

 

[rob9872]

Nah Tbf I’ve gone a bit deeper with it for the craic. But that stable bollocks has pissed me off.

Hardly surprising, I think most couldn't believe that was still on. Not even giving the benefit of doubt as a joke, it's a line originally meant to be funny 50 years ago and was by Bernard Manning, but it's been called out as racist for years and years. Whoever posted it should at least have the decency to remove it and apologise, if only for not reading the room.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

In 99% of cases people wouldn't be frothing at the mouth to either name him or to find out where he was born. Where his parents are born, etc etc. Normally, I would say this should be kept out of the public domain, but right-wingers will turn this into a long summer of violence and disorder if he isn't named. Sad it has come to this.

But what is the benefit in naming him? So they can go and torch his parents' house instead? His name is not relevant at this point in time - it will just fuel the racist mobs: "we told you he was an illegal immigrant", etc.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

tbf, Rob is one of the 'good righties'. And yes I've had my run-ins with him before, and no I'm not going to repeat some of his posts of the past and stir it up(!) but fundamentally seems to be a half-decent person, who is polar opposite to me politically.

So be it, can't win 'em all.

I wasn't having a go at Rob, who as you say, seems a reasonable poster. Just clarifying what the outcome will be for the forum if we allow the sort of stuff that is becoming increasingly common on here. It cannot be easy to be a Muslim on this forum to see this stuff and I don't think that is acceptable.

 

[hill83]

Hardly surprising, I think most couldn't believe that was still on. Not even giving the benefit of doubt as a joke, it's a line originally meant to be funny 50 years ago and was by Bernard Manning, but it's been called out as racist for years and years. Whoever posted it should at least have the decency to remove it and apologise, if only for not reading the room.

It got doubled down, and you could argue tripled down.

Nobody with that kind of thought process would say my son isn’t English. I’d probably get away with it too. My mum wouldn’t.

What does that suggest. All born here.

 

[rob9872]

It got doubled down, and you could argue tripled down.

Nobody with that kind of thought process would say my son isn’t English. I’d probably get away with it too. My mum wouldn’t.

What does that suggest. All born here.

Only saw it the once and that was called out so if they've gone in on it again they're simply a c**t.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Hardly surprising, I think most couldn't believe that was still on. Not even giving the benefit of doubt as a joke, it's a line originally meant to be funny 50 years ago and was by Bernard Manning, but it's been called out as racist for years and years. Whoever posted it should at least have the decency to remove it and apologise, if only for not reading the room.

It was a quote from an Irish man towards the Duke of Wellington as I recall. Yes I did apologise and it was removed

 

[hill83]

It was a quote from an Irish man towards the Duke of Wellington as I recall. Yes I did apologise and it was removed

Fair enough

 

[torchomatic]

Nah Tbf I’ve gone a bit deeper with it for the craic. But that stable bollocks has pissed me off.

Yep, just pointed that out.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I wasn't having a go at Rob, who as you say, seems a reasonable poster. Just clarifying what the outcome will be for the forum if we allow the sort of stuff that is becoming increasingly common on here. It cannot be easy to be a Muslim on this forum to see this stuff and I don't think that is acceptable.

I haven't commented on this aspect of the thread so far, but I have to say i have been quite surprised by the number of posters who are only now showing their true colours, when i considered SBT to be generally quite a reasonable, accepting, humane and liberal (not necessarily politically) group of people.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I haven't commented on this aspect of the thread so far, but I have to say i have been quite surprised by the number of posters who are only now showing their true colours, when i considered SBT to be generally quite a reasonable, accepting, humane and liberal (not necessarily politically) group of people.

I think Deleted member 5849 made the point that it emboldens people when they see posts that reflect their views. Normally they would be too embarrassed to express them. And yes it is disappointing that there are actually some many.

 

[torchomatic]

But what is the benefit in naming him? So they can go and torch his parents' house instead? His name is not relevant at this point in time - it will just fuel the racist mobs: "we told you he was an illegal immigrant", etc.

Aaargh! Yes, true enough.

 

[Otis]

No, the law of this country states he should not be named until and unless a judge in the Crown Court lifts the reporting restrictions on identifying a minor. And as he has been charged, it is now in the judicial process. Anyone who names him will be in contempt of court. That includes on here, so be careful, people.

The reason the wanker S*l*s is saying the accused is 30 is because there is evidence that some people entering the UK by means both legal and illegal say that they are a minor while claiming asylum, because that means that they get a cushy little number rather than being thrown in an immigration detention centre.
However, this person was born in Cardiff to refugee parents, so the authorities know EXACTLY how old he is. I suspect the parents arrived here and sought asylum after fleeing the horrors in Rwanda 20+ years ago. Why their son has turned out the way he has is anybody's guess, but i'm not fuelling that debate by speculating.

I meant that the courts lifted the restrictions. Had happened before

 

[torchomatic]

I haven't commented on this aspect of the thread so far, but I have to say i have been quite surprised by the number of posters who are only now showing their true colours, when i considered SBT to be generally quite a reasonable, accepting, humane and liberal (not necessarily politically) group of people.

I was the same. I used to see stuff on Twitter from supporters of QPR, West Ham and some of the Northern clubs like Burnley, Rotherham, etc. I used to think, "thank God our fan base is not like that", particuarly after all the stuff with Kasey at Wednesday.

Now, I'm not so sure, I think we have a lot who are showing themselves to be people with pretty unsavoury views.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

It got doubled down, and you could argue tripled down.

Nobody with that kind of thought process would say my son isn’t English. I’d probably get away with it too. My mum wouldn’t.

What does that suggest. All born here.

This is just another debate, if I was born in Hong Kong to white parents living there I don't think I'd be classed as chinese, my Polish neighbours with 2 children class them as Polish, my wifes second generation Irish friends say there 100% Irish although born in England, my son and daughters indian friends are english. A lot could be said for how people integrate into society

 

[hill83]

This is just another debate, if I was born in Hong Kong to white parents living there I don't think I'd be classed as chinese, my Polish neighbours with 2 children class them as Polish, my wifes second generation Irish friends say there 100% Irish although born in England, my son and daughters indian friends are english. A lot could be said for how people integrate into society

People can choose what they want to identify as. I’m not having other people decide for other people though.

 

[MalcSB]

But what is the benefit in naming him? So they can go and torch his parents' house instead? His name is not relevant at this point in time - it will just fuel the racist mobs: "we told you he was an illegal immigrant", etc.

Why not name him? On what basis does a 17 year old committing a very obviously “adult” crime deserve not to be named? If he was 18 years old he would have been named and the mob could then go and torch his parents house As Offenham has suggested.

As has been claimed on the politics thread, he is old enough to pay taxes and die for this country, so why shouldn’t he be named? is it because an under 18 year old is deemed as potentially not knowing right from wrong? If that’s the case, they could hardly be trusted to know right from left.

 

[Otis]

Why not name him? On what basis does a 17 year old committing a very obviously “adult” crime deserve not to be named? If he was 18 years old he would have been named and the mob could then go and torch his parents house As Offenham has suggested.

As has been claimed on the politics thread, he is old enough to pay taxes and die for this country, so why shouldn’t he be named? is it because an under 18 year old is deemed as potentially not knowing right from wrong? If that’s the case, they could hardly be trusted to know right from left.

I think they do need to look at the law.

I get he's 17, but he's hardly a child is he. Should it be under 16 perhaps?.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Yep, just pointed that out.

Yes you don't say, keep pointng it out as long as you want if it makes you happy

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why not name him? On what basis does a 17 year old committing a very obviously “adult” crime deserve not to be named? If he was 18 years old he would have been named and the mob could then go and torch his parents house As Offenham has suggested.

As has been claimed on the politics thread, he is old enough to pay taxes and die for this country, so why shouldn’t he be named? is it because an under 18 year old is deemed as potentially not knowing right from wrong? If that’s the case, they could hardly be trusted to know right from left.

It's the law as it stands. I agree that if voting goes down to 16 so they should change the law here... but it's a bit of a digression anyway.

 

[hill83]

I think they do need to look at the law.

I get he's 17, but he's hardly a child is he. Should it be under 16 perhaps?.

It should be 16. But it currently isn’t. That’s it really.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I think it's human nature to want to put a name to name to a face or in this case to such a terrible crime. However, on its own it doesn't really achieve anything or satisfy the public " need" for answers.
What is needed more than anything in order to at least give the public some means of understanding his actions is his motive.
I personally think the police should give us a bit more but perhaps their hands are tied or the lad has said absolutely nothing .
Either way there is an atmosphere of anger and outright hate manifesting itself nicely with those who want to riot and attack the police .

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

The Bulger killers were named and a lot younger, not sure how long it took though

 

[Deleted member 9744]

This is just another debate, if I was born in Hong Kong to white parents living there I don't think I'd be classed as chinese, my Polish neighbours with 2 children class them as Polish, my wifes second generation Irish friends say there 100% Irish although born in England, my son and daughters indian friends are english. A lot could be said for how people integrate into society

It's harder to integrate into a society when people hold and express discriminatory views. That is my point about how it would not feel welcoming or safe for a Muslim to post on here.

It's strange how the people who harp on about integration are the ones who are most hostile to people from different races or religions.

 

[MalcSB]

I think it's human nature to want to put a name to name to a face or in this case to such a terrible crime. However, on its own it doesn't really achieve anything or satisfy the public " need" for answers.
What is needed more than anything in order to at least give the public some means of understanding his actions is his motive.
I personally think the police should give us a bit more but perhaps their hands are tied or the lad has said absolutely nothing .
Either way there is an atmosphere of anger and outright hate manifesting itself nicely with those who want to riot and attack the police .

There will be no motive. He will claim diminished responsibility because he’s a nutter and spend some time in a secure mental health hospital.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

This is just another debate, if I was born in Hong Kong to white parents living there I don't think I'd be classed as chinese, my Polish neighbours with 2 children class them as Polish, my wifes second generation Irish friends say there 100% Irish although born in England, my son and daughters indian friends are english. A lot could be said for how people integrate into society

I think someone mentioned it on here, possibly earlier in this thread, that they knew someone whose parents had come to Britain from India "back in the day" and were delighted to be here and to be accepted.
True, there were racist movements in the 60s (well done, Enoch!) after the initial, what you might call "mass" immigration from the Caribbean and the Indian sub-continent, but the people who came, for work opportunities, for a new start, or for refuge (e.g. from Idi Amin's Ugandan atrocities against the Indian people) really and truly integrated, albeit understandably wanting to retain some of their own culture (cf. the John Bull pub in Benidorm).
I lived in Leicester in the 80s and 90s, and it was a great example of multi-culturalism and a real "melting pot" of cultures enjoyed by all sides (even though you might describe the distribution of the faiths and races as being slightly "enclave" in their pattern), mainly first and second generation immigrants.

What i simply do not understand is why their kids and grandkids now consider themselves to have closer ties to their ancestral homeland and culture and to be less "British-Asian" or "Black British" than their parents did 30-40 years ago. I think this is causing increased division nowadays, particularly around gang culture.
Apologies if my being a privileged middle-aged white bloke has caused me to over-simplify the issues.

 

[nicksar]

It's harder to integrate into a society when people hold and express discriminatory views. That is my point about how it would not feel welcoming or safe for a Muslim to post on here.

It's strange how the people who harp on about integration are the ones who are most hostile to people from different races or religions.

I'm aware of one frequent poster on this forum who is Muslim, I've never seen any animosity or anything directed towards him.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

What about 4th generation 8 year olds with blonde hair and blue eyes being suggested they aren’t English because their great grandad was born in Jamaica?

But what i don't understand is why that person would still feel the need to identify as Jamaican, or even Black? As i said in my other post, i am white British so probably don't understand all the influences and ties to another culture (other than supporting Wales at rugby because my mum was Welsh). I would genuinely like to know, if anyone would care to share (even by DM).

 

[Otis]

I'm aware of one frequent poster on this forum who is Muslim, I've never seen any animosity or anything directed towards him.

Is it me?

 

[nicksar]

Is it me?

No

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

The Bulger killers were named and a lot younger, not sure how long it took though

They were named at the end of the trial because the judge believed the public interest outweighed the need for them to retain anonymity. Their new identities were protected in perpetuity by injunction when they turned 18.

 

[Otis]

No

Grrr.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Is it me?

No you just attract animosity because you're an arse!