Do you want to discuss boring politics? (28 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

Then work smarter

If only that had been possible.

 

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[MalcSB]

My usually reliable local service has been the opposite over the last few months. I mean a pay deal and recruiting sufficient drivers to cover the timetable without making some do overtime is what they should be doing.

I’ve just seen that train drivers work a 4 day week and one of the terms and conditions that the government is not requiring them to change is that Sunday working is not compulsory. Presumably then, no matter how many drivers they employ, there would be no Sunday timetables without overtime.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

While we’re here, how about universal school breakfast and lunch as an inexpensive help to child poverty, general nutrition, and education.

Woke

 

[MalcSB]

Then work smarter

If only these could work smarter. If only these earned as much as train drivers,

Radiographer shortage in England ‘is delaying breast cancer treatment’

Urgent need to recruit more mammographers to enable disease to be detected promptly, says professional body

www.theguardian.com

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If only these could work smarter. If only these earned as much as train drivers,

Radiographer shortage in England ‘is delaying breast cancer treatment’

Urgent need to recruit more mammographers to enable disease to be detected promptly, says professional body

www.theguardian.com

There are plenty of professions doing difficult or highly skilled work that should be paid much more, and a good number doing easy or unimportant work that are paid far too much.

I have no problem with train drivers being well paid.

 

[duffer]

If only these could work smarter. If only these earned as much as train drivers,

Radiographer shortage in England ‘is delaying breast cancer treatment’

Urgent need to recruit more mammographers to enable disease to be detected promptly, says professional body

www.theguardian.com

Indeed, so you'll be supporting substantial wage rises across the NHS and care sector then, I presume?

Or are you one of those people that stood outside loudly banging the saucepan, and then went inside and quietly voted Tory?

 

[MalcSB]

Indeed, so you'll be supporting substantial wage rises across the NHS and care sector then, I presume?

Or are you one of those people that stood outside loudly banging the saucepan, and then went inside and quietly voted Tory?

I worked for the NHS. It would have felt wrong to have loudly banged a saucepan for myself.

 

[Grendel]

I worked for the NHS. It would have felt wrong to have loudly banged a saucepan for myself.

 

[wingy]

There are plenty of professions doing difficult or highly skilled work that should be paid much more, and a good number doing easy or unimportant work that are paid far too much.

I have no problem with train drivers being well paid.

Maybe when the plane's get automaton, the pilots can transfer to work the train's on the W/E shift, probably compatible wages,draw backs no partying with the hostesses, plus dependent on your view, home virtually every night!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Maybe when the plane's get automaton, the pilots can transfer to work the train's on the W/E shift, probably compatible wages,draw backs no partying with the hostesses, plus dependent on your view, home virtually every night!

Train drivers are a pretty obvious profession to be replaced by automation. So the people jealous of the pay and conditions they have fought for in through a strong union will not have to be upset for too long.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Same tune with every election. Opposition promises to fix things but then claims there isn't the money.
This time Labour didn't really have to do any sums as they were always going to walk the election as people just sick of Conservatives.
Every party says they'll sort out public sector waste - none succeed that well.
Every recent govt has overspent on external consultants - a bloated, increasingly inefficient Civil Service often to blame for that.
Taxes obviously going up.

What evidence of public sector waste? Having worked in both public and private sector this tired old cliche is very harmful. Some actions in private sector has been terrible verging on criminal but I don't tar everyone with same brush. Truth is both need each other for country and economy to flourish.

 

[MalcSB]

Train drivers are a pretty obvious profession to be replaced by automation. So the people jealous of the pay and conditions they have fought for in through a strong union will not have to be upset for too long.

And all the rail unions will all be out on strike the moment there is a whiff of this happening. The operation of trains does seem way overdue being automated: repairing the lines or clearing the wrong type of leaves less so.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

I worked for the NHS. It would have felt wrong to have loudly banged a saucepan for myself.

Going to answer the question about pay across the NHS?

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe when the plane's get automaton, the pilots can transfer to work the train's on the W/E shift, probably compatible wages,draw backs no partying with the hostesses, plus dependent on your view, home virtually every night!

Train drivers earn more I believe. Trains should be automated anyway. Staff should be security and service not drivers IMO.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And all the rail unions will all be out on strike the moment there is a whiff of this happening. The operation of trains does seem way overdue being automated: repairing the lines or clearing the wrong type of leaves less so.

Well I would expect them to fight it, but it would most likely be settled by a phased switch to automation.

 

[shmmeee]

Automation is where the unions really shit the bed. Your members don’t get higher pay without higher productivity. Refusing productivity enhancements is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Automation is where the unions really shit the bed. Your members don’t get higher pay without higher productivity. Refusing productivity enhancements is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Well, it would make ASLEF redundant. RMT however do not necessarily need to fear driverless trains.

 

[shmmeee]

Well, it would make ASLEF redundant. RMT however do not necessarily need to fear driverless trains.

You can’t fight the tide of technology. Better to be working on getting your members gainful employment elsewhere than sticking your fingers in your ears until one day the inevitable happens.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't think you can realistically and safely automate training driving in this country on such a busy railway. What is the actual real benefit of doing so vs the massive massive costs?

 

[chiefdave]

And all the rail unions will all be out on strike the moment there is a whiff of this happening. The operation of trains does seem way overdue being automated: repairing the lines or clearing the wrong type of leaves less so.

We can't even manage to electrify the tracks and don't have enough rolling stock because we're leasing old shit other countries no longer have use for. The chances of investing in driver free trains any time soon seems pretty slim.

Also, TfL have driver free trains, they still require a driver on every train for safety reasons.

 

[MalcSB]

Train drivers earn more I believe. Trains should be automated anyway. Staff should be security and service not drivers IMO.

Crazy. HGV and bus drivers deserve more, at least they have to steer and cope with traffic.

 

[shmmeee]

Crazy. HGV and bus drivers deserve more, at least they have to steer and cope with traffic.

For some reason you need an engineering qualification to drive a train I think. But the whole thing seems extremely automatable. I’d much rather have another guard in the carriages on most trains I’ve been on than a driver.

 

[MalcSB]

Going to answer the question about pay across the NHS?

Yes. As I have said, my final pay point at retirement would have to be increased by 30% to make up for inflation since Agenda for Change was introduced in 2004. It Would be entirely reasonable to restore that purchasing power by awarding the required pay increases- with the government making it absolutely clear that this was a one off special case given that the provision of health (and social care) services are in everyone’s interests. Annual increments should be returned, I have no idea why the unions agreed to the change in system. I would also increase the number of all health related university places significantly and make it financially attractive for students to pursue these courses rather than degrees in media studies or the life and music of The Beatles.

 

[MalcSB]

For some reason you need an engineering qualification to drive a train I think. But the whole thing seems extremely automatable. I’d much rather have another guard in the carriages on most trains I’ve been on than a driver.

I don’t think you do. Entry requirement 2 GCSEs.

Train driver | Explore careers | National Careers Service

nationalcareers.service.gov.uk

 

[MalcSB]

I don't think you can realistically and safely automate training driving in this country on such a busy railway. What is the actual real benefit of doing so vs the massive massive costs?

If there is any seriousness to the development of automated cars, the railways should be a piece of piss.

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t think you do. Entry requirement 2 GCSEs.

Train driver | Explore careers | National Careers Service

nationalcareers.service.gov.uk

You did when I applied about ten years ago. My HND in Engineering (Telecomms) wasn’t deemed enough

 

[MalcSB]

You did when I applied about ten years ago. My HND in Engineering (Telecomms) wasn’t deemed enough

I honestly find that hard to believe, it must have been an excuse. You were probably too right wing for them.

 

[duffer]

Every job is a piece of piss, except mine, seems to be the theme here. If it's so straightforward, why does it take 18-24 months' worth of training to become a train driver. Why aren't we all applying to do it?

I'm guessing one reason is that it's actually fairly technical, and the other is that it's not 40 tons of baked beans that you're responsible for, it's a few hundred lives, and a few million quid if you stuff it up.

Fully automated trains might be some way away - there's a lot of infrastructure involved. And the reason you have a driver in trains, is a bit like the reason you've got a pilot in planes...

Driverless Trains: Past, Present and Future

Are driverless trains inevitable? While possible, they are not as common as they could be. We look at the story of autonomous trains to get some clues.

www.hitachirail.com

 

[chiefdave]

You did when I applied about ten years ago. My HND in Engineering (Telecomms) wasn’t deemed enough

Went down a wormhole about this recently and the bigger problem now is unless you want to pay to put yourself through private training its hard to get qualified. The train franchises don't / won't train anywhere near the number of people required to make up the shortfall in drivers.

On the rare occasions they do advertise for trainee drivers they get many times the number of applicants required. Would suggest that the problem with a shortage of drivers is not down to nobody wanting to do the job.

 

[Grendel]

Every job is a piece of piss, except mine, seems to be the theme here. If it's so straightforward, why does it take 18-24 months' worth of training to become a train driver. Why aren't we all applying to do it?

I'm guessing one reason is that it's actually fairly technical, and the other is that it's not 40 tons of baked beans that you're responsible for, it's a few hundred lives, and a few million quid if you stuff it up.

Fully automated trains might be some way away - there's a lot of infrastructure involved. And the reason you have a driver in trains, is a bit like the reason you've got a pilot in planes...

Driverless Trains: Past, Present and Future

Are driverless trains inevitable? While possible, they are not as common as they could be. We look at the story of autonomous trains to get some clues.

www.hitachirail.com

The average pilot salary

https://uk.indeed.com/career/pilot/salaries

 

[MalcSB]

The average pilot salary

https://uk.indeed.com/career/pilot/salaries

Ridiculous. Obviously easier and less responsibility than driving a train.

 

[MalcSB]

Went down a wormhole about this recently and the bigger problem now is unless you want to pay to put yourself through private training its hard to get qualified. The train franchises don't / won't train anywhere near the number of people required to make up the shortfall in drivers.

On the rare occasions they do advertise for trainee drivers they get many times the number of applicants required. Would suggest that the problem with a shortage of drivers is not down to nobody wanting to do the job.

So why is there a shortage of drivers, and why don’t companies train trainloads so there is some competition for jobs?

 

[PVA]

Sorry but it's impossible to read this conversation and not think of this.

 

[Grendel]

Sorry but it's impossible to read this conversation and not think of this.

What? Even by your standards this is bizarre.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If there is any seriousness to the development of automated cars, the railways should be a piece of piss.

If is doing some exceptionally heavy lifting there