Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So I can’t smoke in my home or car because of kids, can’t smoke indoors anywhere public, now can’t smoke outdoors either, I assume not in my garden for the same logic as my house and car.

As I say, just stop fannying about and ban it. At least illegal tobacco is cheap.

I think people should be able to do whatever they want as long as they aren’t physically hurting anyone. Unfortunately for you, smoking does. So yes I would rather it be banned altogether

 

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[shmmeee]

I think people should be able to do whatever they want as long as they aren’t physically hurting anyone. Unfortunately for you, smoking does. So yes I would rather it be banned altogether

Including themselves?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Productivity isn’t about hours worked as much as impact of those hours. If their businesses invest in automation or other tech, if their time isn’t spent waiting in traffic, if their staff are skilled, etc.

Not an expert but from what I understand the UKs productivity issues stem from a mix of workers not being able to go where it’s most productive due to London being where all the productive jobs are and housing and transport being expensive, and SMEs not being particularly productive. Not sure why the latter exactly.

How are they measuring productivity in London though? Is it work carried out in London or just companies that have a registered head office in London? How is the financial services industry productive?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Productivity improvements is the only answer I’ve got.

Reducing the amount of money sucked out of the useful economy through paying for energy, rent and finance.

 

[shmmeee]

Reducing the amount of money sucked out of the useful economy through paying for energy, rent and finance.

That too. Getting to cost of living down, especially housing and energy should be priority one. Aside from anything else. The cheaper someone can live, the less we have to pay to keep people alive.

 

[fernandopartridge]

No major problem with smoking being banned where people are eating, outside or in. I don't think it should be banned in pub gardens per se though.

 

[MalcSB]

That too. Getting to cost of living down, especially housing and energy should be priority one. Aside from anything else. The cheaper someone can live, the less we have to pay to keep people alive.

An increase on fuel duty won't be all that helpful in reducing the cost of living - another probability for October.

 

[MalcSB]

No major problem with smoking being banned where people are eating, outside or in. I don't think it should be banned in pub gardens per se though.

When I smoked and smoking was allowed in restaurants, I always sat in the non-smoking area and went outside to smoke.

I think vaping should be treated slightly differently / less onerously than smoking as many of the health affecting chemicals aren't present.

If I was still a smoker, I would probably be an awkward bastard (hard to believe I know) and stand just outside the smoking exclusion zone and blow my smoke in to it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Smokers are hugely demonised for the effects of passive smoke (which surely isn't that bad outside of your household?) but nobody is ever criticised for pumping diesel or petrol fumes into the air everyday (which have a demonstrable effect on population wide health and the environment)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Including themselves?

Excluding themselves. But we know loads about the secondary effects of smoking. As do I, both my parents smoked till I was 18

 

[shmmeee]

Excluding themselves. But we know loads about the secondary effects of smoking. As do I, both my parents smoked till I was 18

Outdoors? What are the secondary effects? How do they compare to for example exhaust fumes or other contaminants? Genuine Qs. My gut says smoking in a beer garden has minimal impact on any third party’s health.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Outdoors? What are the secondary effects? How do they compare to for example exhaust fumes or other contaminants? Genuine Qs. My gut says smoking in a beer garden has minimal impact on any third party’s health.

I would need to do some reading around it to be sure but my thought is that you’d still get stuff on the pub garden furniture even if there were negligible effect on the local air quality.

 

[shmmeee]

I would need to do some reading around it to be sure but my thought is that you’d still get stuff on the pub garden furniture even if there were negligible effect on the local air quality.

I think at this point it feels more a moral crusade than a public health one TBH.

 

[wingy]

All feels a bit Chinese don't it, I'll probably carry on, would love not to, but there you are, probably be cheaper for me when it's driven underground! Farage is getting stuck in,so let's see!

 

[wingy]

I think at this point it feels more a moral crusade than a public health one TBH.

Unless it's tagged on to motoring?

 

[MalcSB]

I would need to do some reading around it to be sure but my thought is that you’d still get stuff on the pub garden furniture even if there were negligible effect on the local air quality.

I’m not entirely sure you get lung cancer by absorbing carcinogens from pub garden furniture through your arse whilst sitting on it.

 

[Skybluekyle]

When I smoked and smoking was allowed in restaurants, I always sat in the non-smoking area and went outside to smoke.

I think vaping should be treated slightly differently / less onerously than smoking as many of the health affecting chemicals aren't present.

If I was still a smoker, I would probably be an awkward bastard (hard to believe I know) and stand just outside the smoking exclusion zone and blow my smoke in to it.

Still annoying as fuck to get vapour straight to the face from some selfish prick.

Had it at the football, of course when I challenged them on it, I got the standard less than contrite reply.

People are just selfish wankers, though, so doubt law will change that!

 

[Sick Boy]

Banning it in pub beer gardens and outside football stadiums is over the top. Just create non smoking areas in beer gardens and include vapes in the ban.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I miss the smell of smoking / pipes etc in the ground, reminds me of my early days watching football

 

[SwanLane]

Near in mind that
(a) a note had been left saying there was no money left
(b) the Office for Budget Responsibility haven’t been established

So it probably was worse than he thought. Labour simply don’t have that excuse.

You can’t seriously be using these arguments in favour of Cameron and Osborne?

The note saying ‘sorry old chap, there’s no money’ is a well worn joke at the time of power transfer.

As for the OBR, if you come to power and promise to cut everything to the bone, there’s a chance your shiny new forecasting body will have different projections from the previous administration’s.

The fact is, Cameron and Osborne raised VAT having campaigned with “no plans” to raise taxes. For context, this is the same pair who tried to compare the government budget to that of a household and implied that our predicament was similar to that of Greece FFS.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The fact is, Cameron and Osborne raised VAT having campaigned with “no plans” to raise taxes. For context, this is the same pair who tried to compare the government budget to that of a household and implied that our predicament was similar to that of Greece FFS.

Rachel Reeves and Starmer use similar language "the national credit card" etc. Depressing.

 

[SwanLane]

Rachel Reeves and Starmer use similar language "the national credit card" etc. Depressing.

Cringey and sad if they’re stooping to those kind of statements.

 

[Ashdown]

No major problem with smoking being banned where people are eating, outside or in. I don't think it should be banned in pub gardens per se though.

Surely if he bans smoking outside of pubs and in gardens then he’s going to close down ALL of the shisha bars….Is he fuck though !

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think at this point it feels more a moral crusade than a public health one TBH.

I don’t have a moral issue with smoking and freely admit I’d need to look into the data on it in terms of health effects.

 

[MalcSB]

You can’t seriously be using these arguments in favour of Cameron and Osborne?

The note saying ‘sorry old chap, there’s no money’ is a well worn joke at the time of power transfer.

As for the OBR, if you come to power and promise to cut everything to the bone, there’s a chance your shiny new forecasting body will have different projections from the previous administration’s.

The fact is, Cameron and Osborne raised VAT having campaigned with “no plans” to raise taxes. For context, this is the same pair who tried to compare the government budget to that of a household and implied that our predicament was similar to that of Greece FFS

Whilst much of what you have said is valid, as certainly wasn’t using the arguments in favour of Cameron and Osborne.

The first point (a) is seen as a joke now, because the author of the note realised after the event what a stupid thing it was to put in writing. The second point (b) about the OBR. Is a statement of fact. Governments finances are reviewed by the OBR and therefore are pretty much an open book and hence Starmer and Reeves are lying when they said things are worse than they expected. Things have, of course, become worse because of decision that have made in their 7 weeks in office. Come to think about it, that is what you have identified- the black hole is where the Ming vase was dropped and Labour’s costly hidden intentions became a reality.

Drawing attention to Cameron and Osborne is unhelpful to your argument as Starmer has said that his government will be different. A whole 7 weeks in power seems to suggest otherwise, same old lies same old croneyism- just a different set of croneys.

 

[MalcSB]

Still annoying as fuck to get vapour straight to the face from some selfish prick.

Had it at the football, of course when I challenged them on it, I got the standard less than contrite reply.

People are just selfish wankers, though, so doubt law will change that!

Anyone doing that is an arsehole.

I have to say I find it pretty irritating to have someone exhaling the odours of their vindaloo all over me when sitt8ng next to them on a bus. Or eating a stinky, smelly, greasy burger on a train. There ought to be a law against it.

 

[wingy]

I miss the smell of smoking / pipes etc in the ground, reminds me of my early days watching football

Having just heard part of Kier's message it seems anyone born is a captive of the state, you can't even die how you choose!!

Whilst much of what you have said is valid, as certainly wasn’t using the arguments in favour of Cameron and Osborne.

The first point (a) is seen as a joke now, because the author of the note realised after the event what a stupid thing it was to put in writing. The second point (b) about the OBR. Is a statement of fact. Governments finances are reviewed by the OBR and hence are pretty much an open book and hence Starmer and Reeves are lying when they said things are worse than they expected. Things have, of course, become worse because of decision that have made in their 7 weeks in office.

Drawing attention to Cameron and Osborne is unhelpful to your argument as Starmer has said that his government will be different. A whole 7 weeks in power seems to suggest otherwise, same old lies same old croneyism- just a different set of croneys.

Remains to be seen though

 

[MalcSB]

Having just heard part of Kier's message it seems anyone born is a captive of the state, you can't even die how you choose!!

Remains to be seen though

It’s already evident, what remains to be seen is how worse it gets in October. Starmer suggest it’s going to get a lot worse.

 

[Ashdown]

Quiet old Kier , who some said had few ideas to offer is going to prove a fanatic for controlling the population ….. certainly those he thinks it will be easier to control anyway !

 

[SwanLane]

Whilst much of what you have said is valid, as certainly wasn’t using the arguments in favour of Cameron and Osborne.

The first point (a) is seen as a joke now, because the author of the note realised after the event what a stupid thing it was to put in writing. The second point (b) about the OBR. Is a statement of fact. Governments finances are reviewed by the OBR and therefore are pretty much an open book and hence Starmer and Reeves are lying when they said things are worse than they expected. Things have, of course, become worse because of decision that have made in their 7 weeks in office. Come to think about it, that is what you have identified- the black hole is where the Ming vase was dropped and Labour’s costly hidden intentions became a reality.

Drawing attention to Cameron and Osborne is unhelpful to your argument as Starmer has said that his government will be different. A whole 7 weeks in power seems to suggest otherwise, same old lies same old croneyism- just a different set of croneys.

The ‘note’ was not a new thing. Just a joke that had been done before. This time it got weaponised, hence the regret of the bloke who chose to do it in 2010.

I didn’t draw attention to the Cameron administration. It had already happened in the discussion and you’d even referenced it yourself in your previous comment.

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t have a moral issue with smoking and freely admit I’d need to look into the data on it in terms of health effects.

Anyway, you’re next fatty. Unless the cost of Ozempic comes down.

 

[shmmeee]

Surely if he bans smoking outside of pubs and in gardens then he’s going to close down ALL of the shisha bars….Is he fuck though !

How do shisha bars work? Are they outdoors?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Anyway, you’re next fatty. Unless the cost of Ozempic comes down.

Just under 2 stone away from not having an overweight BMI I’ll have you know!

 

[shmmeee]

Just under 2 stone away from not having an overweight BMI I’ll have you know!

Great work!

 

[chiefdave]

I’m not entirely sure you get lung cancer by absorbing carcinogens from pub garden furniture through your arse whilst sitting on it.

Funnily enough one of the first things that came up when I googled to see if this was complete bollocks was how long some carcinogens last on surfaces. It was part of a study where they’d looked how badly children’s heath was being impacted when parents only smoked outside and their exposure was 5 times that of non smoking households

Do wonder if this would be an issue if there weren’t so many vaping idiots who deliberately make as much smoke as possible