Do you want to discuss boring politics? (81 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

I mean if we’re starting from scratch I simply wouldn’t let pensioners live in substandard homes, or for that matter allow privatised energy companies to price gouge. But in reality when all other benefits have been cut, and we’re talking about cutting services, if something has to go I’d rather it was a bung to millionaire pensioners than early years or schooling yes.

They should announce emergency funding but it should come with a promise to insulate the home of any pensioner in fuel poverty.

But something does not have to go, does it?

Your cope is off the scale in the last day or two.

 

---

[shmmeee]

Anyway, to pivot away from whether the richest generation needs another £300, this is a fucking scandal.

 

[shmmeee]

But something does not have to go, does it?

Your cope is off the scale in the last day or two.

Hence the word if. Just trying to add some balance as always when SBT goes off the deep end into a circle jerk. There’s a reason this was Tory policy when May decided she could tackle politically tough subjects, same as social care. We spend far too much of our income on pensioners who don’t need it if we’re honest.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I mean if we’re starting from scratch I simply wouldn’t let pensioners live in substandard homes, or for that matter allow privatised energy companies to price gouge. But in reality when all other benefits have been cut, and we’re talking about cutting services, if something has to go I’d rather it was a bung to millionaire pensioners than early years or schooling yes.

They should announce emergency funding but it should come with a promise to insulate the home of any pensioner in fuel poverty.

It isn’t an either/or, at least I didn’t think it was.

I assume you oppose universal FSM and universal childcare on the same basis?

 

[MalcSB]

The last resort of a desperate man. It’s OK if you don’t know.

Let me walk you through then.

The current expectation is that state pension will increase by £430 in April, after winter.
A pensioner will lose £300 in WFP leaving £130.
Band C council tax increases by 5% locally would be £110, leaving £20 per year.
House insurance increases by 5%, say £10 per year.

Calorie intake - i have seen it suggested that a sedentary man of 70 needs 2,000 calories per day compared to an active man at 2,800 calories per day, so 71%. How much does an active younger man spend on food per week - £42 or £2,184 pa. For the 70 year old man, that would be £1551 p.a. Food inflation at 2.9% currently will apply equally / fully as I described it, to both sums. For the 70 year old man, it is £46 per year - but he only has £10 left of his increase So is £36 pa worse off - and that’s before any other increases. For the active younger man, the increased food cost will be £66. That will leave quite a lot left out of a train drivers £9,000 pay increase.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

While we're arguing about the WFP and pensioners, can we not agree that the biggest problem is the energy companies making huge profits rather than the govt having to subsidise pensioners that can't afford it.

How about we focus efforts on getting those companies to reduce the bills of pensioners by £300 instead.

 

[MalcSB]

Hence the word if. Just trying to add some balance as always when SBT goes off the deep end into a circle jerk. There’s a reason this was Tory policy when May decided she could tackle politically tough subjects, same as social care. We spend far too much of our income on pensioners who don’t need it if we’re honest.

We also spend far too much of our income on the bone idle and lead swingers.

 

[MalcSB]

While we're arguing about the WFP and pensioners, can we not agree that the biggest problem is the energy companies making huge profits rather than the govt having to subsidise pensioners that can't afford it.

How about we focus efforts on getting those companies to reduce the bills of pensioners by £300 instead.

Well that was what Labour promised after all, it’s the least they could do.
Dale Vince was talking about a pylon price cap which would cut bills by £200 (whatever that is).

 

[wingy]

Let me walk you through then.

The current expectation is that state pension will increase by £430 in April, after winter.
A pensioner will lose £300 in WFP leaving £130.
Band C council tax increases by 5% locally would be £110, leaving £20 per year.
House insurance increases by 5%, say £10 per year.

Calorie intake - i have seen it suggested that a sedentary man of 70 needs 2,000 calories per day compared to an active man at 2,800 calories per day, so 71%. How much does an active younger man spend on food per week - £42 or £2,184 pa. For the 70 year old man, that would be £1551 p.a. Food inflation at 2.9% currently will apply equally / fully as I described it, to both sums. For the 70 year old man, it is £46 per year - but he only has £10 left of his increase So is £36 pa worse off - and that’s before any other increases. For the active younger man, the increased food cost will be £66. That will leave quite a lot left out of a train drivers £9,000 pay increase.

Bloody hell I thought that you were suggesting £9000 a day at the end there ,and that with my New glasses!
My daughter is Rachel Reeves equivalent when it comes to spending the little bit I've got!

 

[wingy]

Well that was what Labour promised after all, it’s the least they could do.
Dale Vince was talking about a pylon price cap which would cut bills by £200 (whatever that is).

Probably extend the maintenance timeframe or something!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We also spend far too much of our income on the bone idle and lead swingers.

Just how do we know all the pensioners weren't part of the bone idle benefit lot of yesteryear?

Does Tracy, who's currently raising five kids on benefits, suddenly become a hard-working pensioner who's paid her taxes when she reaches her late-60's?

 

[wingy]

While we're arguing about the WFP and pensioners, can we not agree that the biggest problem is the energy companies making huge profits rather than the govt having to subsidise pensioners that can't afford it.

How about we focus efforts on getting those companies to reduce the bills of pensioners by £300 instead.

Are we sure the Gov't are not getting kickback from this?
Across the piste govts?

 

[MalcSB]

Just how do we know all the pensioners weren't part of the bone idle benefit lot of yesteryear?

Does Tracy, who's currently raising five kids on benefits, suddenly become a hard-working pensioner who's paid her taxes when she reaches her late-60's?

No she doesn’t .
She will get her social care costs paid for her though.

 

[Grendel]

Just how do we know all the pensioners weren't part of the bone idle benefit lot of yesteryear?

Does Tracy, who's currently raising five kids on benefits, suddenly become a hard-working pensioner who's paid her taxes when she reaches her late-60's?

What are you talking about?

She won’t qualify for a state pension

 

[MalcSB]

What are you talking about?

She won’t qualify for a state pension

Don’t people on benefits and / or raising children (receiving child benefit.) get NI “credits”?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I beg to differ.

There are plenty of pensioners either just above the threshold for pension credit, or who don't know how to work through the complexities of claiming it, who will genuinely suffer because of this.

Just because you don't know them personally doesn't mean it's not going to happen. It's needlessly cruel, performative politics, and by a Labour government at that.

If the Tories were proposing the same thing, and Labour were in opposition, I doubt you or they would be quite as sanguine as to its impacts.

What hasn't been publicised widely enough is that Reeves said in Parliament in 2014 (as recorded in Hansard) that a Labour government would scrap the WFP for those not on Pension Credit.
The notion that it is a reaction to a £22bn black hole (which is why it wasn't in the manifesto, apparently) is a red herring. It's been Labour policy for a decade and she's a lying bitch.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Oh no

UK economy unexpectedly flatlines for second month in row​

Pre-election slowdown continues in July despite economists predicting growth of 0.2%

 

[MalcSB]

Oh no

UK economy unexpectedly flatlines for second month in row​

Pre-election slowdown continues in July despite economists predicting growth of 0.2%

The Labour effect.

 

[MalcSB]

Let me walk you through then.

The current expectation is that state pension will increase by £430 in April, after winter.
A pensioner will lose £300 in WFP leaving £130.
Band C council tax increases by 5% locally would be £110, leaving £20 per year.
House insurance increases by 5%, say £10 per year.

Calorie intake - i have seen it suggested that a sedentary man of 70 needs 2,000 calories per day compared to an active man at 2,800 calories per day, so 71%. How much does an active younger man spend on food per week - £42 or £2,184 pa. For the 70 year old man, that would be £1551 p.a. Food inflation at 2.9% currently will apply equally / fully as I described it, to both sums. For the 70 year old man, it is £46 per year - but he only has £10 left of his increase So is £36 pa worse off - and that’s before any other increases. For the active younger man, the increased food cost will be £66. That will leave quite a lot left out of a train drivers £9,000 pay increase.

I can’t believe that I didn’t even mention the energy cap increase, that’s another £170 per year. Also need to bear in mind that, whilst @shmmeee has reminded us that pensioners calorie intake is lower their heating requirements in winter are higher as they are both sedentary and at home more than the average worker.

So I have now calculated up to over £200 pa worse off despite the pension increase in April 2025.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I can’t believe that I didn’t even mention the energy cap increase, that’s another £170 per year. Also need to bear in mind that, whilst @shmmeee has reminded us that pensioners calorie intake is lower their heating requirements in winter are higher as they are both sedentary and at home more than the average worker.

So I have now calculated up to over £200 pa worse off despite the pension increase in April 2025.

To give him credit he well understands all this, it's just hurting him that he has been mugged off voting for Labour.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What are you talking about?

She won’t qualify for a state pension

Yes she will. Benefits include NI credits.

 

[shmmeee]

To give him credit he well understands all this, it's just hurting him that he has been mugged off voting for Labour.

Id vote them again. This was literally Tory policy as well. If this is your red line you’re screwed.

 

[MalcSB]

Id vote them again. This was literally Tory policy as well. If this is your red line you’re screwed.

Where was it in the Tory manifesto? Oh no, it says exactly the opposite.

"We will maintain all current pensioner benefits, including free bus passes, Winter Fuel Payments, free prescriptions and TV licences."

Where was it in Labour's manifesto? It isn't.

TBH, if this is the hill you are willing to die on, you're screwed.

 

[wingy]

The Labour effect.

The BOE effect!

 

[wingy]

Just heard a phone on local radio, quite positive reaction, from across the piste.
Mp from rugby suggested this is basically a tidying excercise to run with other schemes that will result in a overall simple energy bill's to become cheaper,you heard it here first, simple council tax band's is the way to go I think!

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Just heard a phone on local radio, quite positive reaction, from across the piste.
Mp from rugby suggested this is basically a tidying excercise to run with other schemes that will result in a overall simple energy bill's to become cheaper,you heard it here first, simple council tax band's is the way to go I think!

Not convinced by that. There are a lot of pensioners who are asset rich (including the family home, which might be in a high Council Tax band) but very money poor.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not convinced by that. There are a lot of pensioners who are asset rich (including the family home, which might be in a high Council Tax band) but very money poor.

Ran the pension credit calculator and a single man aged 80 still paying rent or mortgage, on a combined state + private pension of £280 a week (which is average) is not entitled to pension credit.

£280 per week
- £100 rent
- £20 Council Tax
- £10 Water Bills
- £20 Insurance
- £20 Energy
- £20 Phone / Mobile
- £20 Insurance

Leaves £70 to live on to buy food, go out, run a car. It's pitiful.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Ran the pension credit calculator and a single man aged 80 still paying rent or mortgage, on a combined state + private pension of £280 a week (which is average) is not entitled to pension credit.

£280 per week
- £100 rent
- £20 Council Tax
- £10 Water Bills
- £20 Insurance
- £20 Energy
- £20 Phone / Mobile
- £20 Insurance

Leaves £70 to live on to buy food, go out, run a car. It's pitiful.

Yep it’s awful
So long as those millionaires are ok it’s alright

 

[MalcSB]

Yep it’s awful
So long as those millionaires are ok it’s alright

I think those millionaires will be paying in far more than they were receiving.

 

[MalcSB]

Ran the pension credit calculator and a single man aged 80 still paying rent or mortgage, on a combined state + private pension of £280 a week (which is average) is not entitled to pension credit.

£280 per week
- £100 rent
- £20 Council Tax
- £10 Water Bills
- £20 Insurance
- £20 Energy
- £20 Phone / Mobile
- £20 Insurance

Leaves £70 to live on to buy food, go out, run a car. It's pitiful.

Starmer refuses to rule out the end of the single person discount, so the amount you have allowed for council tax may need to be increased (looks low anyway).

I never really understood what was so wrong with the “poll tax” Idea.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yep it’s awful
So long as those millionaires are ok it’s alright

It's irrelevant, there are a tiny number of millionaires who might get a couple of hundred quid they don't need, so what?

There are many more who won't get a couple of hundred quid that they do need.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It's irrelevant, there are a tiny number of millionaires who might get a couple of hundred quid they don't need, so what?

There are many more who won't get a couple of hundred quid that they do need.

It was more the reason the government finances are shit is is because private wealth is being horded
I agree £300 is really needed in many homes and will be missed

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think those millionaires will be paying in far more than they were receiving.

I’m sure they are but I remember seeing a graph of the government overdraft mirroring the increase in private wealth

 

[fernandopartridge]

I’m sure they are but I remember seeing a graph of the government overdraft mirroring the increase in private wealth

Government doesn't have an overdraft for fuck sake

 

[Nick]

What they should do is if anybody has savings from hard work over the years, just take it all and give it to others who don't and have never worked hard.