Who selected and appointed the coaching staff ? (11 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Becuase you’re taking the word performance out of context in sporting terms.

Again - she’s not looking at why Thomas can’t pass, or Kitching decides to unexpectedly goes awol.

It’s the same role she’d have fulfilled in the Olympic team, and working with the premier league. - psychology, sports science, fitness, nutrition - she probably looks at the benefit of sleep

She’s a psychologist and is tasks in her own words with assessing the mentality of incoming signings and ensuring the players are in the right mind set. Two areas we are failing badly at.

She has also been involved with the coaching setup and by all accounts is instigating and enforcing rules around players giving autographs on the training ground. She was given a two part splash in the CET, something no other coach or support staff was given.

But sure, she just does sleep or whatever and has no responsibilities at all. Just makes cocoa.

The structure is only as good as the people staffing it. What seems to have happened is we’ve replaced two highly effective but “old school” coaches with a team of inexperienced and seemingly inadequate specialists. And now apparently because their jobs are so disparate none of them are responsible for anything, it’s all on Robins and the fact the club has gone to shit on the pitch since this change is 100% Robins despite the previous seven years.

We have a performance director. In their own words they’re responsible for the player performances even if you don’t like it. No that’s not Thomas’ passing but it is him looking like he can’t be arsed and fighting on the pitch.

We have a defensive coach. He takes some blame for the shambles of a defence we have. We have individual coaches, they take blame for the fact every single player is underperforming bar Eccles (who as a City fan hardly needs motivating). We have people who will be responsible for getting patterns of play across, they’re clearly not working. And yes we’ll have someone responsible for tactics and making final decisions and he’s responsible too. But sack him and 90% of the issues still exist. That’s the problem with the model. Yes it means sacking any one person has less of an effect, but that means if you want to have a big effect say to turn around and absolute shit show you need to sack far more than one person.

 

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[wingy]

It's gonna be Sisu all over again, Sack Dowie and bring in the preferred candidate, well that's my two pence worth!

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

She’s a psychologist and is tasks in her own words with assessing the mentality of incoming signings and ensuring the players are in the right mind set. Two areas we are failing badly at.

She has also been involved with the coaching setup and by all accounts is instigating and enforcing rules around players giving autographs on the training ground. She was given a two part splash in the CET, something no other coach or support staff was given.

But sure, she just does sleep or whatever and has no responsibilities at all. Just makes cocoa.

The structure is only as good as the people staffing it. What seems to have happened is we’ve replaced two highly effective but “old school” coaches with a team of inexperienced and seemingly inadequate specialists. And now apparently because their jobs are so disparate none of them are responsible for anything, it’s all on Robins and the fact the club has gone to shit on the pitch since this change is 100% Robins despite the previous seven years.

We have a performance director. In their own words they’re responsible for the player performances even if you don’t like it. No that’s not Thomas’ passing but it is him looking like he can’t be arsed and fighting on the pitch.

We have a defensive coach. He takes some blame for the shambles of a defence we have. We have individual coaches, they take blame for the fact every single player is underperforming bar Eccles (who as a City fan hardly needs motivating). We have people who will be responsible for getting patterns of play across, they’re clearly not working. And yes we’ll have someone responsible for tactics and making final decisions and he’s responsible too. But sack him and 90% of the issues still exist. That’s the problem with the model. Yes it means sacking any one person has less of an effect, but that means if you want to have a big effect say to turn around and absolute shit show you need to sack far more than one person.

Performance wise we’d been on the decline since before the change. After Leicester the only decent performance was Leeds.

Wolves like Tottenham was a cup game which seemingly the players they can get themselves up for

that’s close to 9 months of decline. We currently have one of the highest retention rates in the league so it’s not as though we’ve an abundance of new players

Ultimately it’s not our decision, it’s Kings, we’ll have all our answers in May.

 

[shmmeee]

Performance wise we’d been on the decline since before the change. After Leicester the only decent performance was Leeds.

Wolves like Tottenham was a cup game which seemingly the players they can get themselves up for

that’s close to 9 months of decline. We currently have one of the highest retention rates in the league so it’s not as though we’ve an abundance of new players

Ultimately it’s not our decision, it’s Kings, we’ll have all our answers in May.

That’s not an excuse, that’s a reason maybe to hire a performance director, but you’d expect to see things get better, not worse.

The one reason I have for sacking Robins is to let King live or die (in the towns) on all his own decisions. I think sadly you’re right and it’s Kings decision. I just hope like with the tickets and stuff he eventually realises he fucked up and goes some way to rectifying it because my concern is he’s baking mediocrity into the clubs DNA and it took us twenty years to get past that last time.

 

[Bugsy]

That’s not an excuse, that’s a reason maybe to hire a performance director, but you’d expect to see things get better, not worse.

The one reason I have for sacking Robins is to let King live or die (in the towns) on all his own decisions. I think sadly you’re right and it’s Kings decision. I just hope like with the tickets and stuff he eventually realises he fucked up and goes some way to rectifying it because my concern is he’s baking mediocrity into the clubs DNA and it took us twenty years to get past that last time.

Disagree totally, that's a foolish reason. If anyone should get the sack should be either the coaching team or performance team imo, or drop the players who aren't performing.
Robins I believe will turn it around, done it before will do it again but needs the support for our fan base and Doug.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

That’s not an excuse, that’s a reason maybe to hire a performance director, but you’d expect to see things get better, not worse.

The one reason I have for sacking Robins is to let King live or die (in the towns) on all his own decisions. I think sadly you’re right and it’s Kings decision. I just hope like with the tickets and stuff he eventually realises he fucked up and goes some way to rectifying it because my concern is he’s baking mediocrity into the clubs DNA and it took us twenty years to get past that last time.

But her results aren’t going to occur 2/3 months in. You’re only going to see if she’s negatively affecting performance if multiple staff changes on her advice continue to be shit and she’s the common denominator.

Personally I’ve always thought Kings plan would end up phasing Robins out. He’s always going to want his own people.

The real scrutiny will be of Robins does go - who he goes for. I’m sticking to my modern football approach theory which will see a head coach coming in - someone like McKenna, or a foreign coach.

one person I will say that only a few people have considered, is Dean Austin. He’s on top of recruitment effectively and Robins mate.

why has he not identified we needed a central midfielder - one we’ve needed since Hamer has gone

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because everyone wants someone to blame other than the manager without understanding the roles each person does.

same with the coaching staff. Nobody actually knows what role they’re fulfilling

But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.

 

[shmmeee]

But her results aren’t going to occur 2/3 months in. You’re only going to see if she’s negatively affecting performance if multiple staff changes on her advice continue to be shit and she’s the common denominator.

Personally I’ve always thought Kings plan would end up phasing Robins out. He’s always going to want his own people.

The real scrutiny will be of Robins does go - who he goes for. I’m sticking to my modern football approach theory which will see a head coach coming in - someone like McKenna, or a foreign coach.

one person I will say that only a few people have considered, is Dean Austin. He’s on top of recruitment effectively and Robins mate.

why has he not identified we needed a central midfielder - one we’ve needed since Hamer has gone

And if Robins has made these appointments then he needs to go really. Which would be a very sad way to end as the best manager for a generation and one who quite literally saved the club.

What made us great was such good use of resources. The excitement from data scouts when we signed someone, haven’t seen that in a couple of years. I’ve not been impressed with anything since the PO final TBH. Feels like the players and the staff were a special moment not to be repeated and we missed out big chance.

 

[shmmeee]

But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.

They’ve also got some very good staff. If it was as simple as making a few organisational changes every club would do it.

Yet despite all this talk of modern structures and managers not being important elite clubs fortunes do still seem to track with getting a good manager in. Otherwise Man Utd and Chelsea wouldn’t have dropped to the level they have.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.

I’m aware they’re all interlinked - but ultimately when they go out on the pitch that’s on Robins.

the players are talented players, we’ve seen this, they can compete with United, Spurs, Wolves etc on their day.

the new signings - all have something there - Rudoni is decent, Dovin is a prospect, Bassette looks like he has all the attributes to be a good player, Jury is out on BTA, EMC, but we’ve seen what they saw in them.

Clearly there’s a motivation issue and a disconnect, Robins ideas and instructions aren’t sinking in - his own words. If that’s the case he’s losing influence - that’s not on the coaching staff or King or John Taylor or Roberts.

it’s his ideas that the players need to be following - and they’re not

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

They’ve also got some very good staff. If it was as simple as making a few organisational changes every club would do it.

Yet despite all this talk of modern structures and managers not being important elite clubs fortunes do still seem to track with getting a good manager in. Otherwise Man Utd and Chelsea wouldn’t have dropped to the level they have.

Man Utd interestingly also operated in an older way and that’s credited for how they struggled. Mourinho advocated for a director of football.

they’ve only just started separating their operations under their new owners.

Ed Woodward was in charge of everything - now they have seperate business operations and football is being overseen by Jason Wilcox and the guy from Man City - Barradi or something.

 

[alexccfc99]

Why is everyone obsessed with Claire Robert’s as if she has total control and influence.

She specialises is sports psychology and has worked for other clubs and the Olympic Team in psychology motivation and coaching. She has played for Aston Villa. She doesn’t recruit players, train them or pick the team

I'll stick my neck on the line and open myself to a bit of stick and just say it tbh

But in my opinion some, not all but a very vocal section of our support are uncomfortable with having a woman in and around the playing staff and are as a result giving her a harder time than she probably deserves

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

And if Robins has made these appointments then he needs to go really. Which would be a very sad way to end as the best manager for a generation and one who quite literally saved the club.

What made us great was such good use of resources. The excitement from data scouts when we signed someone, haven’t seen that in a couple of years. I’ve not been impressed with anything since the PO final TBH. Feels like the players and the staff were a special moment not to be repeated and we missed out big chance.

one thing I do agree with you, Fernando partridge and Clint van damme is that it’s more complicated than I make out.

but ultimately at this stage the only real change you can make is the manager.

Someone needs to be brought into galvanise these players. Hopefully Robins can get some points in these two home games and get a solid 2 weeks to get to the bottom of this

 

[fernandopartridge]

I’m aware they’re all interlinked - but ultimately when they go out on the pitch that’s on Robins.

the players are talented players, we’ve seen this, they can compete with United, Spurs, Wolves etc on their day.

the new signings - all have something there - Rudoni is decent, Dovin is a prospect, Bassette looks like he has all the attributes to be a good player, Jury is out on BTA, EMC, but we’ve seen what they saw in them.

Clearly there’s a motivation issue and a disconnect, Robins ideas and instructions aren’t sinking in - his own words. If that’s the case he’s losing influence - that’s not on the coaching staff or King or John Taylor or Roberts.

it’s his ideas that the players need to be following - and they’re not

If the players aren't following instructions that's on them isn't it?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Man Utd interestingly also operated in an older way and that’s credited for how they struggled. Mourinho advocated for a director of football.

they’ve only just started separating their operations under their new owners.

Ed Woodward was in charge of everything - now they have seperate business operations and football is being overseen by Jason Wilcox and the guy from Man City - Barradi or something.

It's going really well

 

[clint van damme]

But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.

They also signed Milner and Welbeck so still see the value of signing experience with no sell on potential.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It's going really well

I mean I’d argue the manager is very much the issue there - and probably doesn’t have long left himself. Odd team lineups, strange subs…..

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

If the players aren't following instructions that's on them isn't it?

Agreed. Mentioned this in another thread.

but ultimately they aren’t bad players ability wise. If it’s a case of binning off the players or the manager and getting someone who can motivate and inspire them - guess which option is most cost effective

 

[shmmeee]

If this set of players get him sacked frankly they can all piss off with him. Been nothing but moaning pussies since they signed.

 

[wingy]

If this set of players get him sacked frankly they can all piss off with him. Been nothing but moaning pussies since they signed.

Come off it!

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

If this set of players get him sacked frankly they can all piss off with him. Been nothing but moaning pussies since they signed.

That’s the problem higher up the pyramid 2bh. The fight for each other work ethic sort of goes.

it’s a more pampered world the higher we go. Your Goddens, Kelly’s Tom Davies, Concrete Rod were lower league journeymen but they’d fight and give you 110%

players we have now are twice the player - but need to have a lot of things in place. To cater to their every need.

I read similar about Roy Keane at Sunderland - The Roy Keane factor went as soon as they started signing bigger stars in the premier league. They didn’t care or respect who he was in the game so twctically he was shown up

 

[shmmeee]

That’s the problem higher up the pyramid 2bh. The fight for each other work ethic sort of goes.

it’s a more pampered world the higher we go. Your Goddens, Kelly’s Tom Davies, Concrete Rod were lower league journeymen but they’d fight and give you 110%

players we have now are twice the player - but need to have a lot of things in place. To cater to their every need.

I read similar about Roy Keane at Sunderland - The Roy Keane factor went as soon as they started signing bigger stars in the premier league. They didn’t care or respect who he was in the game so twctically he was shown up

There’s two ways out of this division as I see it; be a parachute club and pay the tens of millions in wages and facilities you’re talking about. Or be a Luton or an Ipswich or until recently an us and punch above your weight with a small committed squad.

I’m not sure the former is open to us, or that we achieve it by trying to copy structures rather than the actual route of paying fuck tons of cash on wages.

 

[shmmeee]

Come off it!

Fuck em wingy. Not a one has achieved anything in the game. “Oh I can only perform if my dog massager is present and I’ve had my matcha tea at three degrees below room temperature”. You’re a small viral star on tour in a small town not fucking Taylor Swift.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

There’s two ways out of this division as I see it; be a parachute club and pay the tens of millions in wages and facilities you’re talking about. Or be a Luton or an Ipswich or until recently an us and punch above your weight with a small committed squad.

I’m not sure the former is open to us, or that we achieve it by trying to copy structures rather than the actual route of paying fuck tons of cash on wages.

Interesting you say that - Ipswich put in the same structure before their promotion from league one.

they’ve even gone down the young inexperienced coaching roles with UEFA pro licences. Performance directors and conditioning coaches. lee Grant, sone Aluko and rene gilmartin are young coach’s

luton have too. Kevin foley is a first team coach, as I said it’s a common set up at this level

 

[clint van damme]

Interesting you say that - Ipswich put in the same structure before their promotion from league one.

they’ve even gone down the young inexperienced coaching roles with UEFA pro licences. Performance directors and conditioning coaches. lee Grant, sone Aluko and rene gilmartin are young coach’s

luton have too. Kevin foley is a first team coach, as I said it’s a common set up at this level

Both clubs employ assistant managers within that structure though. Whether that's of any relevance or not I don't know but obviously Robins is used to having one and now doesn't.

 

[Nick]

Some of the madness posts on here are so desperate to try and get away from Robins being at fault.

It will be the chef at Ryton next not giving them enough energy in their meals.

 

[Nick]

Well yes, at best she could only be involved in a small number of transfers, I acknowledge that.

Though I'd imagine one is Dovin who it now seems is quite a timid lad.

Wonder if the profiling picked up on that?

Must be all her fault.

Dovin being timid is the very least of our worries.

 

[clint van damme]

Must be all her fault.

Dovin being timid is the very least of our worries.

I agree. But seem as we're supposed to be applying gold standard physiological assessments that doesn't bode well.

Or was it hilighted but we went ahead anyway?

 

[clint van damme]

Some of the madness posts on here are so desperate to try and get away from Robins being at fault.

It will be the chef at Ryton next not giving them enough energy in their meals.

Similarly some are desperate to defenda new coaching structure over our long term manager.

Seems to be based on a 2 page spread in the CET and Man U doing something similar!

 

[Diogenes]

I'll stick my neck on the line and open myself to a bit of stick and just say it tbh

But in my opinion some, not all but a very vocal section of our support are uncomfortable with having a woman in and around the playing staff and are as a result giving her a harder time than she probably deserves

Don't we have/had at least 1 female coach?

Not heard them being given a hard time before so not sure if that's the case.

 

[M&B Stand]

Some of the madness posts on here are so desperate to try and get away from Robins being at fault.

It will be the chef at Ryton next not giving them enough energy in their meals.

lots of wild overthinking going on.
Heard an interview with Harry Redknapp over the weekend, he said football managers basically need to put good, fit players on the pitch, in their correct position and play the correct system. Thats it.
He was referring to Ten Hag but it stands for Robins. He’s taken us as far as he can.
football is cyclical, so I hope you enjoyed the past couple of years because things ain’t getting better anytime soon. We look a shadow of what we were.

 

[Nick]

Similarly some are desperate to defenda new coaching structure over our long term manager.

Seems to be based on a 2 page spread in the CET and Man U doing something similar!

Or people are just pointing out that she has fuck all to do with the tactics or some of that nonsense.

Robins is getting the blame for things under his control, what is happening on the pitch, the system not working.

If this failure is down to the coaches, what exactly is Robins job?

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Being a bit controversial, is it reasonable for the new coaching set up to hit the ground running or should we all this season for it to become established ready for a push next season ?

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting you say that - Ipswich put in the same structure before their promotion from league one.

they’ve even gone down the young inexperienced coaching roles with UEFA pro licences. Performance directors and conditioning coaches. lee Grant, sone Aluko and rene gilmartin are young coach’s

luton have too. Kevin foley is a first team coach, as I said it’s a common set up at this level

That’s incidental to them having a hungry motivated squad and a decent coaching staff. That’s my point. All else being equal this might be the best setup, but if you’ve got an exceptional setup you are only going to bring it back to the mean. The assumption is either you can hire lots of quality or none at all.

I seriously doubt Conor Chaplin was stripping because the coaches weren’t nice enough to him. Both teams had experience on the pitch and players you can trust. Neither would have done what we’ve done the last 12 months.

 

[shmmeee]

Being a bit controversial, is it reasonable for the new coaching set up to hit the ground running or should we all this season for it to become established ready for a push next season ?

Yes. Other coaches manage it. And last season was supposed to be the shit one we endured for the greater good.

Also this isn’t even waiting for improvement or one step back for two forwards. It’s a complete breakdown of everything on the playing side.