Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

Making kids feel that getting a substandard degree is better than going down apprenticeship/vocational training route has already been to this country’s long term detriment.

All those routes have been decimated by successive administrations.
Schools can’t even get funding to start the process at KS4, forcing kids into academic courses that completely turn them off education.
Even now there are plans around BTEC’s that potentially will force schools to drop BTEC pathways from their sixth form offers - meaning A Level route is the only thing left in schools.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

Hardly, government funds £27k for some degree level apprenticeship standards which are not repayable. It funds nothing for a degree.

Weirdly it doesn't fully fund any healthcare related standards, unsure why that is.


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But the take up is not what it should/needs to be. I’m not talking about government funding, I’m talking about attitudes to apprenticeships/vocational courses and jobs. Apprenticeships have been falling in recent years after a big increase when tories/coalition were in government but I’d love to see what the numbers are going into trades/vocations/vocational courses since 1990s. I might be wrong but there seems to be this constant push to get more into uni rather than pursue the other options which might be more suitable for the individual.




ps I still can’t believe there isn’t the option for lower level nursing without a degree

 

[fernandopartridge]

But the take up is not what it should/needs to be. I’m not talking about government funding, I’m talking about attitudes to apprenticeships/vocational courses and jobs. Apprenticeships have been falling in recent years after a big increase when tories/coalition were in government but I’d love to see what the numbers are going into trades/vocations/vocational courses since 1990s. I might be wrong but there seems to be this constant push to get more into uni rather than pursue the other options which might be more suitable for the individual.

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ps I still can’t believe there isn’t the option for lower level nursing without a degree

Having worked for the LSC and Skills Funding Agency, the short answer is that employers are just not that interested. Lots of the 'increases' in apprenticeships are often existing employees being certified rather than somebody commencing on what the general public perception of a proper apprenticeship. It's going to take some time for the tide to turn but it is good that apprenticeship standards exist now for more contemporary roles.

For example, I did a L2 apprenticeship years and years ago from within an existing job role.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Having worked for the LSC and Skills Funding Agency, the short answer is that employers are just not that interested. Lots of the 'increases' in apprenticeships are often existing employees being certified rather than somebody commencing on what the general public perception of a proper apprenticeship. It's going to take some time for the tide to turn but it is good that apprenticeship standards exist now for more contemporary roles.

For example, I did a L2 apprenticeship years and years ago from within an existing job role.

Read that as league 2

 

[chiefdave]

Who is this actually good for? The only audience who welcomes this state of affairs are spiteful cunts imo

Is that a realistic example? Seems like they've picked through it to find a worse case scenario.

Is there a huge number of employees with undergraduate & postgraduate degrees & loans on 60K with an imminent 33% pay increase?

Quick look on salary calculator, which says its been updated post budget, shows a 2.6% difference in take home pay between the current years tax rules and next years.

Nobody wants to pay tax but either we make an argument that the money isn't needed, which needs a huge change in attitude towards the economy so everyone stops treating it like a household budget, or we think the tax should be raised elsewhere and whoever it is proposed that is makes the same complaints.

 

[MalcSB]

The spite coming from the current group of elected representatives of which most benefited from free university tuition.

And right to buy at huge discount - for at least one.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Is that a realistic example? Seems like they've picked through it to find a worse case scenario.

Is there a huge number of employees with undergraduate & postgraduate degrees & loans on 60K with an imminent 33% pay increase?

Quick look on salary calculator, which says its been updated post budget, shows a 2.6% difference in take home pay between the current years tax rules and next years.

Nobody wants to pay tax but either we make an argument that the money isn't needed, which needs a huge change in attitude towards the economy so everyone stops treating it like a household budget, or we think the tax should be raised elsewhere and whoever it is proposed that is makes the same complaints.

It's talking about the implementation of student loan repayments

The key point is that the marginal rate of tax penalises people for going to university and just removes money ( therefore demand) from the real economy

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[shmmeee]

Any shortage area or career that requires a degree should be free or heavily subsidised.
Education is another area on top of healthcare.

They should at least go back to the golden handshake where your undergrad fees are paid off if you teach for X years.

 

[shmmeee]

It's talking about the implementation of student loan repayments

The key point is that the marginal rate of tax penalises people for going to university and just removes money ( therefore demand) from the real economy

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This was literally me plus one kid. Loan paid off this month. Second biggest outgoing after my mortgage. Absolutely insane drag on my spending.

 

[fernandopartridge]

This was literally me plus one kid. Loan paid off this month. Second biggest outgoing after my mortgage. Absolutely insane drag on my spending.

I'm sure the iht and cgt opponents will be along shortly to talk about how it stops people battering themselves

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[wingy]

I'm sure the iht and cgt opponents will be along shortly to talk about how it stops people battering themselves

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Yeah but that money has gone on second homes and rental properties now, so never truly dissapeared

 

[Grendel]

This was literally me plus one kid. Loan paid off this month. Second biggest outgoing after my mortgage. Absolutely insane drag on my spending.

A different scheme and fees surely?

 

[chiefdave]

Should be a wake up call for Starmer. Can't just tinker round the edges and expect to get re-elected.

We heard comparisons of Starmer to Biden as the grown up, boring candidate who would just get on with the job.

Said before Labour are sleep walking into being a one term government while happily congratulation themselves on getting the tories out for a generation.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Should be a wake up call for Starmer. Can't just tinker round the edges and expect to get re-elected.

We heard comparisons of Starmer to Biden as the grown up, boring candidate who would just get on with the job.

Said before Labour are sleep walking into being a one term government while happily congratulation themselves on getting the tories out for a generation.

Harris was proposing a more progressive manifesto after Biden spent trillions (federal expenditure was something like 4.4trn in 2019 and forecast 6.75trn in FY2024*). They just got smashed in the election

I agree that if people feel worse off by the next election that starmer will be in trouble though so let’s hope the additional tax and borrowing is spent wisely

*some will be additional interest

 

[fernandopartridge]

Harris was proposing a more progressive manifesto after Biden spent trillions (federal expenditure was something like 4.4trn in 2019 and forecast 6.75trn in FY2024*). They just got smashed in the election

I agree that if people feel worse off by the next election that starmer will be in trouble though so let’s hope the additional tax and borrowing is spent wisely

*some will be additional interest

If people feel worse off Labour are done for, it is simple. How they have not grasped this basic point I do not know.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Interesting looking at company bankruptcies - the number of monthly bankruptcies is up there with the GFC and remaining that way, can only see it getting worse at this point:

 

[shmmeee]

If people feel worse off Labour are done for, it is simple. How they have not grasped this basic point I do not know.

People hate inflation. By any measure US citizens are better off today than before. Biden followed the received wisdom of industrial policy to bring back the working class and it didn’t even touch the sides.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

People hate inflation. By any measure US citizens are better off today than before. Biden followed the received wisdom of industrial policy to bring back the working class and it didn’t even touch the sides.

One of the richest men in the world told the country that economic pain would follow and Trump won big anyway.

 

[CCFCSteve]

People hate inflation. By any measure US citizens are better off today than before. Biden followed the received wisdom of industrial policy to bring back the working class and it didn’t even touch the sides.

I think we’ve had a similar discussion before, whilst GDP and job creation was very good, due to inflation a lot of middle/lower income voters didn’t feel any better off and many worse off due to the spike in prices of essentials

Inflation-shocked low- and middle-income Americans may not spend normally for years

The inflation shock of 2021-22 will have a lasting impact on how low- and middle-income Americans spend money, economists say.

eu.usatoday.com

You could argue, quite fairly, that a lot of the inflation wasn’t the governments fault (although some policy was inflationary) but like many other incumbents across the world, they paid the price at election time

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think we’ve had a similar discussion before, whilst GDP and job creation was very good, due to inflation a lot of middle/lower income voters didn’t feel any better off and many worse off due to the spike in prices of essentials

Inflation-shocked low- and middle-income Americans may not spend normally for years

The inflation shock of 2021-22 will have a lasting impact on how low- and middle-income Americans spend money, economists say.

eu.usatoday.com

You could argue, quite fairly, that a lot of the inflation wasn’t the governments fault (although some policy was inflationary) but like many other incumbents across the world, they paid the price at election time

Even so, Harris did put forward policy specifics aimed at making this easier. Perhaps no Democrat would have won?

 

[shmmeee]

I think we’ve had a similar discussion before, whilst GDP and job creation was very good, due to inflation a lot of middle/lower income voters didn’t feel any better off and many worse off due to the spike in prices of essentials

Inflation-shocked low- and middle-income Americans may not spend normally for years

The inflation shock of 2021-22 will have a lasting impact on how low- and middle-income Americans spend money, economists say.

eu.usatoday.com

You could argue, quite fairly, that a lot of the inflation wasn’t the governments fault (although some policy was inflationary) but like many other incumbents across the world, they paid the price at election time

Inflation is largely under control and a lot of the policies (eg minimum wage increases) were touted as being what was needed from the left: a focus on jobs and the economy.

But no one forgets what they used to pay for groceries.

 

[djr8369]

I think we’ve had a similar discussion before, whilst GDP and job creation was very good, due to inflation a lot of middle/lower income voters didn’t feel any better off and many worse off due to the spike in prices of essentials

Inflation-shocked low- and middle-income Americans may not spend normally for years

The inflation shock of 2021-22 will have a lasting impact on how low- and middle-income Americans spend money, economists say.

eu.usatoday.com

You could argue, quite fairly, that a lot of the inflation wasn’t the governments fault (although some policy was inflationary) but like many other incumbents across the world, they paid the price at election time

Yeah I think people’s frustration is that while this is all true Trump won’t help. Like you say though being incumbent is a tough sell.

 

[SBAndy]

Inflation is largely under control and a lot of the policies (eg minimum wage increases) were touted as being what was needed from the left: a focus on jobs and the economy.

But no one forgets what they used to pay for groceries.

The price of a Freddo still lingers in the memory.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The price of a Freddo still lingers in the memory.

The idea that £10.50 for a pint and a pie is a good deal still keeps me awake at night

 

[MalcSB]

Bee prices today don’t reflect the decrease in duty. Bastard Mike Ashley.

 

[shmmeee]

Bee prices today don’t reflect the decrease in duty. Bastard Mike Ashley.

Supply and demand innit? Fewer bees these days.

 

[MalcSB]

Supply and demand innit? Fewer bees these days.

Well, I suppose we are being stung at these prices.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Bee prices today don’t reflect the decrease in duty. Bastard Mike Ashley.

Hive never been so angry.

 

[wingy]

Hive never been so angry.

Need to get some mead on tap!
Sort it out!

 

[Mcbean]

The idea that £10.50 for a pint and a pie is a good deal still keeps me awake at night

Don’t forget the 1p reduction from your caring sharing Labour government

 

[MalcSB]

Don’t forget the 1p reduction from your caring sharing Labour government

It didn’t happen. And it won’t. Labour MP twats cheering the announcement in the budget really should have jeered as the NIC changes will more than offset that. Truly risible,

 

[shmmeee]

It didn’t happen. And it won’t. Labour MP twats cheering the announcement in the budget really should have jeered as the NIC changes will more than offset that. Truly risible,

What would you have cut Malc?

 

[MalcSB]

What would you have cut Malc?

What taxes would I have cut.? None.

Why cut the alcohol duty on draught beers at all? It would never have been passed on to the consumer even without the NIC changes. It was a pointless con trick done for the “optics“ of doing something for the working person.

 

[shmmeee]

What taxes would I have cut.? None.

Why cut the alcohol duty on draught beers at all? It would never have been passed on to the consumer even without the NIC changes. It was a pointless con trick done for the “optics“ of doing something for the working person.

No what spending would you have cut?

Easy to say never raise taxes, flip side is lower spending. Curious where you see fat to be trimmed.

 

[MalcSB]

No what spending would you have cut?

Easy to say never raise taxes, flip side is lower spending. Curious where you see fat to be trimmed.

My post wasnt about never raising taxes, it was about the vacuous gesture of cutting duty on draught beer by 1p a pint.

You have said elsewhere that they boxed themselves in by saying they wouldn’t raise taxes on working people. Personally I think employee NICs should have gone up, Hunt reducing them was also a con trick.

And, of course, I wouldn’t have been agreeing to the train drivers pay rise with out any modernisation of working practices. Even Andy Burnham can’t believe that Northern rail still use fax machines because the staff won’t agree to us of iPads. (GPs have at times been little better). I wouldn’t be putting £8.3 billion in to Great British Energy either. But you knew that anyway.