Chaps hearing the ricoh deal is done.. (38 Viewers)

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

Ah, yes, the "rip-off" argument. If you'd be so kind, walk me through ACLs incomings and outgoings (before and after any renegotiation of their loan terms with the bank) to show me how much more Arena anchor tenant CCFC pay than ACL need them to pay to keep going. Maybe CCFC have been paying significantly over the odds (before they stopped paying at all), but I have yet to see anyone prove it.

The ACLs in comings and out going isn't any real concern to the club or SISU. Thats between the ACL and there bank, SISU have to do what right for them and the club. If the only way the ACL can stay solvent as a business is by charging a figure which the market can bear then there business is failing, it happens everyday.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

Why a league 1 average SBT? The Ricoh is not a league one ground in size or cost. Why not run a study of comparably sized grounds like Leicester, Southampton etc?

Because we are in L1.

I only conducted research into L1 rents in retaliation to people asserting I'm bleating SISU propaganda... Now it appears to be fact. I don't think Leicester nor Southampton rent. Swansea don't pay rent, Donny pay 100k, Ipswich 30k, Hull 5k, that's all I know from teams with similar size + quality grounds.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

The ACLs in comings and out going isn't any real concern to the club or SISU. Thats between the ACL and there bank, SISU have to do what right for them and the club. If the only way the ACL can stay solvent as a business is by charging a figure which the market can bear then there business is failing, it happens everyday.

Hmm, ok then, Phil.....so, if ACL fails, because they can't get enough rent from CCFC, what happens next?

ACL goes bust, as you say.......so who runs the arena?.....if it is insolvent with ACL charging us a certain rent, how can it survive (with new owners, presumably) if we pay less, even if SIsU step in......we know how good they are at running a business, but even a magician couldn't make an insolvent business run with even less income.........unless, of course, they screw all other contracts down for even less money... Shock horror, watch out everyone else, including the council, caterers, local businesses (hope you don't work for any of these), maintenance contractors, energy suppliers, general sundries and office suppliers,..etc etc etc....

Be careful what you wish for?

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

Please don't think I'm wish for that, that isn't the case. I don't want SISU to have any part of the ground.

 

[Sky Blues]

The ACLs in comings and out going isn't any real concern to the club or SISU. Thats between the ACL and there bank, SISU have to do what right for them and the club. If the only way the ACL can stay solvent as a business is by charging a figure which the market can bear then there business is failing, it happens everyday.

But we don't know how much the market can bear. If, for example, ACL think they can bring in an extra £400,000 per year from the letting out the arena for more concerts, monster trucks and some rugby games, then the market rate could be far higher than Sisu claim they are willing to pay. My point is we just don't know what the market rate for a nearly new 32,000-seater stadium close to a motorway in the heart of England is, nor what the costs of running it are. To claim it the rent is a rip-off without having such figures to hand is without merit.

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Please don't think I'm wish for that, that isn't the case. I don't want SISU to have any part of the ground.

Ok Phil, sorry, read it the wrong way.

My worry is how can anyone else make a go of the arena, with a reduced rent from CCFC, if ACL can't make it work with that new figure? The answer is, only if the other outgoings can be reduced......which does not auger well for any other 'suppliers' to the arena.

Just wish that we could focus on the good things happening on the pitch, at the moment....

 

[Grendel]

CCFC is not a charity, why shouldn't ACL make a profit when renting the ground to us?

To listen to some on here, you'd think we are entitled to a rent-free ground, as well as the council having paid millions for it to be built in the first place.

To repeat, there is no evidence that ACL are/were overcharging for the Ricoh. Don't listen to any of the spurious assertions on here that state otherwise.

If there is no evidence why have they already offered a 67% reduction you buffoon.

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

But we don't know how much the market can bear. If, for example, ACL think they can bring in an extra £400,000 per year from the letting out the arena for more concerts, monster trucks and some rugby games, then the market rate could be far higher than Sisu claim they are willing to pay. My point is we just don't know what the market rate for a nearly new 32,000-seater stadium close to a motorway in the heart of England is, nor what the costs of running it are. To claim it the rent is a rip-off without having such figures to hand is without merit.

The fact that the ACL have dropped so far so fast with the rent would suggest having the football team there is there only real viable option in the short term at the very least. I understand there are a number of contracts the ACL would loss if CCFC were to go, such as naming rights, and money which has been paid up front for catering. It's not likely that that there going to get another football team to move in. CCFC are the market as it currently stands.

I don't know too much about how admin works but I would guess it works the same as it doesn't in football. Should the ACL go to the wall, the bank would look to recovery there money as best they can which might mean they sell for a figure which is less they are owned. Or they could step in and run the ground themselves, banks own half the country's business this way already.

 

[mrtrench]

Statement from ACL this morning: no agreement on rent, ACL now considering legal action:

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/no_agreement_reached_over_rent_775185/index.shtml

 

[Sky Blues]

Statement from ACL this morning: no agreement on rent, ACL now considering legal action:

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/no_agreement_reached_over_rent_775185/index.shtml

Pretty much the same statement ACL gave the Sky Blue Trust yesterday.

 

[dongonzalos]

Where is SISU's statement.

Joy is handling the negotiations
She went to America they could have informed us of this days ago which would have eased a lot of concern for people over Xmas.

 

[Astute]

I don't know too much about how admin works but I would guess it works the same as it doesn't in football. Should the ACL go to the wall, the bank would look to recovery there money as best they can which might mean they sell for a figure which is less they are owned. Or they could step in and run the ground themselves, banks own half the country's business this way already.

This is more complex than many think. Too much for me to attempt to get my brain cell around.

Here is my basic take on the matter though.

We got the land for a token amount from the council as the land was contaminated. We spent many millions decontaminating the land. Things then went tits up. The council sold land to Tescos for a lot of money and gave them planning permission for a big store. This covered most of the build costs. This was on the land we paid to be decontaminated. There was still a shortfall of funds. The Higgs Trust came in with the funds needed to complete the build. They have a mortgage on the property. I am not sure but I don't think the council put any money of their own in. If there is a default on the mortgage the bank would offload it. I have heard the mortgage is 6m. This would give the buyer the lease from the council. The council will only sell to who they are happy with. I don't think SISU come into this category as things stand. But if they get their hands on the lease they won't have to pay rent, so would still be a good move for them.

Someone said that the Higgs Trust have 20m. Would they use this to buy the leasehold outright? They are a charity that helps the needy in Coventry and surrounding areas. The council wouldn't pay for it. They are short of funds already.

Short and sweet. Much more complex than that, but the basics of the situation from me

 

[jon92]

Statement Tomorrow.
According to the BBC, a statement regarding Coventry City's future at the Ricoh Arena will be announced tomorrow.
The twenty one deadline set by Arena Coventry Limited in which City and their owners SISU must either pay the £1.1m owed rent or sort out a deal in order to avoid being wound up, passed by yesterday.
The only thing City have said on the subject in the last few days was a Christmas Statement from SISU boss Joy Seppala and a statement saying how little Doncaster Rovers pay for their 10,000 capacity Keepmoat Stadium, whilst ACL have that there has been no agreement and talks have stalled yet again.