The goalkeepers (5 Viewers)

[TomRad85]

No chance we offer Wilson a new contract.

Can he prune hedges?

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

But that's the whole point of the xG stats - it takes everything else out and purely focuses on a goalkeeper's shot stopping performance.

Doesn't matter if he faces 1 shot a game or 100 shots a game and it doesn't matter if the attacker is unmarked 6 yards out or taking a shot from 30 yards. All of that is taken into account.

I'm not saying GK is the only issue, of course not, but with our leaky defence we need a solid keeper who saves more than they let in and with Collins that's not the case. We'd be much better off with say Johansson in goal behind this same shit defence.

Not necessarily the case. I’m a big fan of these data metrics but I’ll point out examples of how they’re not infallible.

Firstly, Collins had a better goals versus xgA than Johansson last season. In fact, Collins was a top 6 or thereabouts keeper last season. By this logic, Collins is good enough which is a view I don’t agree with anymore.

Secondly, Collins has been in goal for only a few games and that stat will be skewed by 3 goals specifically the second goals in the Sunderland, Burnley and Cardiff games. All long range shots (bar the Burnley goal) where the defence gave plenty of space for these shots to be well placed - all low xG chances leading to goals.

 

[no_loyalty]

Daniel Bentley now 3rd choice at Wolves, would definitely have preferred him here over all of our current first team goalkeepers.

 

[PVA]

Not necessarily the case. I’m a big fan of these data metrics but I’ll point out examples of how they’re not infallible.

Firstly, Collins had a better goals versus xgA than Johansson last season. In fact, Collins was a top 6 or thereabouts keeper last season. By this logic, Collins is good enough which is a view I don’t agree with anymore.

Secondly, Collins has been in goal for only a few games and that stat will be skewed by 3 goals specifically the second goals in the Sunderland, Burnley and Cardiff games. All long range shots (bar the Burnley goal) where the defence gave plenty of space for these shots to be well placed - all low xG chances leading to goals.

I think you have possibly confused the difference between expected goals and post shot expected goals.

xG is irrelevant when judging a keeper, but PSxG is a direct judgement of a keepers shot stopping and has nothing to do with the defenders.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think you have possibly confused the difference between expected goals and post shot expected goals.

xG is irrelevant when judging a keeper, but PSxG is a direct judgement of a keepers shot stopping and has nothing to do with the defenders.

It would help if you stated that you were going off PSxG. Presumably, PSxG would weight long range shots lower than close range ones so the logic behind my argument holds still.

In any case, Collins performed well on the PSxG metric last season his per 90 stat was marginally lower than Johansson’s as he played 16 less games and face a lot less shots than Rotherham!

 

[shmmeee]

Some of these are fairly standard saves, but not sure we'd have stopped that first one with Dovin, Wilson and Collins all stood in goal together

He did have a career year but a good goalkeeper will only add so much. Look at Johansson at Stoke, last season he conceded 89 goals and is considered a solid Championship goalkeeper.

Structurally, it’s our defence that has always been the problem since Feb. We can’t keep clean sheets and I think Collins was a scapegoat last season but we’ve been leaking goals even without him in goal.

It’s easy to look at the shots on target to goals conceded (xgA v goals conceded too) and conclude the GK is the issue. It’s not. There was several goals in this stretch where opposition players are finding themselves free in the box and that is the issue. How many free shots do we get 6-10 yards from goal?!

Collins deserves a bit of stick for Burnley’s first goal the other day, however, Sarimento shouldn’t be free in the box to have a point blank shot at goal if we defend properly. In that 22/23 season our defending in those areas was top notch, we never really lost headers in the box and we committed a lot of last ditch blocks.

We had defenders and a keeper who whatever their shortcomings looked like they’d rather die than let a goal in. Organised by an absolute warrior. We couldn’t be further from 22/23 defensively sadly.

It would help if you stated that you were going off PSxG. Presumably, PSxG would weight long range shots lower than close range ones so the logic behind my argument holds still.

In any case, Collins performed well on the PSxG metric last season his per 90 stat was marginally lower than Johansson’s as he played 16 less games and face a lot less shots than Rotherham!

that’s because long range shots are easier to save. All three you mention Collins could have done better on so it’s fair no?

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

IMO Collins weakness is his movement of his feet. Too many times he’s not moved his feet laterally enough before diving.
Dovin is better in that area, but all three keepers don’t command their box on crosses

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

Collins has faced 14 shots and conceded 8 goals.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

We had defenders and a keeper who whatever their shortcomings looked like they’d rather die than let a goal in. Organised by an absolute warrior. We couldn’t be further from 22/23 defensively sadly.


that’s because long range shots are easier to save. All three you mention Collins could have done better on so it’s fair no?

Not really, that’s an assumption. There are some long shots that you have no chance of saving if they’re powerful and well placed. Cardiff’s shot was well placed at the weekend and Sunderland’s 2nd goal was a great shot. I didn’t expect the GK to save them necessarily.

 

[Cally Fedora]

Gordon Banks would look poor behind our back four.

 

[larry_david]

Collins has faced 14 shots and conceded 8 goals.

He parried at least two into the danger zone on Saturday

 

[TewkesburySkyBlue]

Not necessarily the case. I’m a big fan of these data metrics but I’ll point out examples of how they’re not infallible.

Firstly, Collins had a better goals versus xgA than Johansson last season. In fact, Collins was a top 6 or thereabouts keeper last season. By this logic, Collins is good enough which is a view I don’t agree with anymore.

Secondly, Collins has been in goal for only a few games and that stat will be skewed by 3 goals specifically the second goals in the Sunderland, Burnley and Cardiff games. All long range shots (bar the Burnley goal) where the defence gave plenty of space for these shots to be well placed - all low xG chances leading to goals.

Lies ,damn lies and statistics

 

[ptr]

Collins has faced 14 shots and conceded 8 goals.

Couldn’t save a Word document ffs - woeful.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He parried at least two into the danger zone on Saturday

It’s one of the first things a goalkeeper learns not to do. Unless he’s coached by Aled Williams

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Slightly below average.

Couldn't fit all the keepers on one screen to get low enough to show Collins and Wilson there are 3 more at the top not shown, including Johansson who would have been my pick for a new keeper in the summer.

View attachment 39955

I think all this shows that in January we should buy a fourth first choice goalkeeper and continue to neglect centre midfield

 

[shepardo01]

The stats are horrendous.

Sheff United had 2 shots on target we conceded 2 goals!
Burnley had 3 shots on target, we conceded 2 goals.
Cardiff had 4 shots on target and we conceded another 2 goals.

I don’t believe Collins deserves another start. If he starts against Millwall then what would it say about the way the others are performing in training…..

Derby had one shot on target - we conceded two goals!!!!!

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Truly mental we spent a significant fee on a keeper and we’re back to someone who started the season as third choice.

 

[SBT]

I think all this shows that in January we should buy a fourth first choice goalkeeper and continue to neglect centre midfield

One more keeper should do it

 

[quinn1971]

Don’t get why Collins is getting stick after Saturday , 2 goals he could do nothing about, ? We had a golden glove winner and that wasn’t good enough for some fans, dovins a kid, put him this team at the minute and it could ruin him, if anything I’d put Wilson back in, more vocal than Collins, but can’t keep Changing keepers, no wonder theyve got no confidence

 

[Badge72]

All three are poor and not championship standard. The defence are over compensating for their incompetence, lack of direction and vocals. Obvious from inability to catch a ball, command the area and take a cross. Three things that are not directly the defender’s responsibility.

 

[quinn1971]

All three are poor and not championship standard. The defence are over compensating for their incompetence, lack of direction and vocals. Obvious from inability to catch a ball, command the area and take a cross. Three things that are not directly the defender’s responsibility.

Last season we went on a very good run. Conceded 4 goals in 10 games including, Leeds, Southampton, mboro and Sunderland, defence for all those games was Collins, mve, kitching, Thomas, bidwell, they were good enough last season ? We played a back four, maybe back to basics instead of messing about with formations, frank will work it out

 

[rob9872]

Can any of them throw a kettle over a pub?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

All three are poor and not championship standard. The defence are over compensating for their incompetence, lack of direction and vocals. Obvious from inability to catch a ball, command the area and take a cross. Three things that are not directly the defender’s responsibility.

Don’t disagree on the two of them but we’ve not seen enough of Dovin to know whether he’s good (or as bad!).

 

[lord_garrincha]

Can any of them throw a kettle over a pub?

No, but two of them are likely to be hit on the head by the kettle on the other side of the pub, in an attempt to catch it.

 

[MalcSB]

Yep, Dovin needs a run, he's not had all that to do when he's played and he's not dropped a bollock yet unlike the other two. We sunk a big chunk of cash into getting him so may as well give him time to develop and adjust to the Championship.

I was raging at the second goal yesterday, looked really poor from Collins live. On review it was a decent swerving effort that the defence should have closed down.

It swerved so much it looked like it had taken a deflection. Which I don’t think it had.

 

[SkyBlueSteve81]

For a while now I have had little to no confidence in the Goalkeeping department as a whole, that includes the Goalkeeper Coach. What does he work on them with all week? Maybe he is the problem? Our Goalkeepers don't seem to develop and that is worrying because we have a couple of young keepers that we are told have a lot of potential, entrusting their development and progress to Aled Williams may be a mistake.

Personally I think both Wilson & Collins are 2nd string at best but reasonable as a back-up for the odd game here and there, early round cup matches and if your 1st string needs a rest or picks up a slight knock but the chopping and changing needs to stop. Pick a No1 and give them a solid run of games to see what they have. Like others have said the constant changes can't breed confidence.

 

[rob9872]

I know some won't ever have Wilson and he had a lucky season with 23 clean sheets 2 years ago, but 4 clean sheets this season incl 2 in the cup and he has 3 of them. Give me lucky over good (let alone shite!) every time.

 

[SBT]

For a while now I have had little to no confidence in the Goalkeeping department as a whole, that includes the Goalkeeper Coach. What does he work on them with all week? Maybe he is the problem? Our Goalkeepers don't seem to develop and that is worrying because we have a couple of young keepers that we are told have a lot of potential, entrusting their development and progress to Aled Williams may be a mistake.

I feel like our GK performances are pretty much in line with what you’d expect from the calibre of keeper that we’ve bought in, with the exception of Wilson who’s improved significantly.

 

[rob9872]

Why do goalkeepers always warm up first and go in first? Been bugging me for a couple of seasons now.

 

[Monty]

Are any of our keepers left footed, could try them at left back.

 

[PVA]

Are any of our keepers left footed, could try them at left back.

No, they're all flat footed.