fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Because he's only fit for about 70% of the average season
How do you solve a problem like Ben Sheaf (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bigelvesy
- Start date
May happen.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
He is probably one of the most overrated players I have seen play for us for a very long time, and the talk of him being underrated on here almost has me lost for words. It's frustrating because I really want to like him, he has some good attributes, but there is such a mismatch between what some of our fans think he is worth, and what he actually is. If he was that good and sought-after, he would have been gone in the summer. The interest clearly wasn't there.
People harp on about how good he has been for the last two seasons, and how instrumental he has been for us, but this is largely a myth. His three periods of prolonged absence across the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons correspond with our best turns of form in both campaigns, including our playoff drive in the former. When he's returned on a couple of occasions, our form has dropped off a cliff.
There is also this notion that somehow this season he is so much worse than previous years, some people are blaming an injury. Again, the online stats don't suggest he's performing much differently. He is only rated slightly lower across this season compared to the others. So, why is it? It looks great when you see his tackles and pass percentage rates. He has some great attributes. When you look closer though, the frustrations become clearer. He's got a lot of limitations which are exposed, especially when we are in a bigger slump. I don't believe he is playing significantly worse than previously, I've think more people are tuning into these limitations and they don't know how to explain it.
One of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the absence of good leaders. We should get whatever we can for him if anyone is willing to bid, and move on so we can bring those in. I will die on this unpopular hill, and I know I am in a minority with this view, but I think we will move forward better as a club without him.
People harp on about how good he has been for the last two seasons, and how instrumental he has been for us, but this is largely a myth. His three periods of prolonged absence across the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons correspond with our best turns of form in both campaigns, including our playoff drive in the former. When he's returned on a couple of occasions, our form has dropped off a cliff.
There is also this notion that somehow this season he is so much worse than previous years, some people are blaming an injury. Again, the online stats don't suggest he's performing much differently. He is only rated slightly lower across this season compared to the others. So, why is it? It looks great when you see his tackles and pass percentage rates. He has some great attributes. When you look closer though, the frustrations become clearer. He's got a lot of limitations which are exposed, especially when we are in a bigger slump. I don't believe he is playing significantly worse than previously, I've think more people are tuning into these limitations and they don't know how to explain it.
One of the biggest problems we have at the moment is the absence of good leaders. We should get whatever we can for him if anyone is willing to bid, and move on so we can bring those in. I will die on this unpopular hill, and I know I am in a minority with this view, but I think we will move forward better as a club without him.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
He's a good player and all of his stats bear this out. Your campaign against him is as irrational as the one you had against Jacob Murphy which showed real prescience on your part. I'm coming round to your view though purely on the basis of his injury record.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I don't have any campaign. I want the player to do well, but I have a view on him and I have stuck to it despite getting pounders on here, which admittedly are becoming more infrequent now.
Injury or no injury, I've provided some detail here on why I have the view that I have, if you disagree with me please feel free to offer some counter points for the debate. It's just pointless having a go otherwise.
JAM See
Well-Known Member
I really rate Sheaf. I understand why he's come under some flak recently (I think it's fitness related personally).
Who's been saying he's underrated though?
Haven't seen that on here although I may be wrong.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
That's fair enough.
There's been a few people. Either a few pages back, or on the transfer thread. I was quite surprised. In my experience he's been very highly regarded.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
The numbers don't lie and we're much worse without him.
That said, he does have flaws and limitations and with his injury record I'm not against him going, but certainly not before we've bought in other midfielders because we are woefully short.
Surely even those who don't rate him can't think midfield combinations that we currently have available are an improvement on him being around.
We've also not yet replaced adequately Hamer, O'Hare or even Palmer, so the thought of losing Sheaf too worries the hell out of me.
That said, he does have flaws and limitations and with his injury record I'm not against him going, but certainly not before we've bought in other midfielders because we are woefully short.
Surely even those who don't rate him can't think midfield combinations that we currently have available are an improvement on him being around.
We've also not yet replaced adequately Hamer, O'Hare or even Palmer, so the thought of losing Sheaf too worries the hell out of me.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
It was the same as last season where he was overworked and subsequently injured. We needed more cover for that area before we’d kicked a ball this season.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I don’t think he misses 20-30% of a season if his minutes are limited to 60-70m per game. Look at a player like Martinelli at Arsenal who they get a lot more mileage out of when they manage his minutes.
Last season, Shesf averaged about 83m a game when played. Playing nearly 90m for 50-odd games a season takes a durable player and Sheaf isn’t a 90 minute, 50 game a season player, his body does break down quite easily.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
It also can't be a coincidence that people are criticising Milan. You don't suddenly become a bad player. In the modern game you need rotation, not just games out but within game and these two have no adequate cover so play longer and then are criticised for not hitting their own high standards. Almost a victim of their own ability.
Senior Vick from Alicante
Well-Known Member
Calle San Francisco is where we end up but Alicante is down the cost from where we go. Its a street full of every kind of bar and the tapas is great, its not the cheapest but the food is great and the measures are large. Dead easy to find and its full of giant mushroom, not the smoking variety. Love the old town as well which is below the castle if you want to people watch and get a bit of the real Spain, foods not expensive around there either. If you want to be energetic you can walk up the castle but there is a lift you can use if you walk along the front opposite the beach. Great place to visit really underrated place.
100% this.
These are professional athletes right?
You dont expect a 10,000m runner to run the same
time or PB 46+ times a year. Both players suffering so much from fatigue, injury and lack of confidence because of it.
Add in the quality around them has diminished , Means they are Asked to do more ,
DrPoolittle
Well-Known Member
Get fit soon, Sheaf.
We can’t afford weakness in midfield and sadly, now there is a risk he will be sold for a cut-price in the summer, to stop him running his contract down.
I think it unlikely he will sign a new contract
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
I find you a bit deranged(!) on this topic tbh but when people were saying he could play for England that was enough for me to question reality
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Ah yes. "The best midfielder in the Championship". We can't play him too much as he's not up to it...
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s an unfair characterisation. Some players just need their minutes managed more than others.
If you have a player that gets injured quite often, it’s just common sense you mitigate the risk. As it happens, Sheaf has one of the highest minutes per game whenever he plays.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Sheaf is a really good player in the championship but he's never been comfortable being the leader or the main man. He's best at being a good supporting act to the main act
We've tried to force him into a role he's not comfortable in the last 18 months and it's backfired.
We've tried to force him into a role he's not comfortable in the last 18 months and it's backfired.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Well, that's fair enough - I've swallowed the pantomime villain on this subject. The problem is, I get a lot of insults, but very few counter arguments or anything that's worthy of a debate. I think it says a lot.
I haven't heard the playing for England one before, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest!
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen anyone say he could play for England, that's bonkers.
The watchmaker
Well-Known Member
I've never heard a Coventry City fan say it but I have heard it from YouTubers.
Diogenes
Well-Known Member
Sheaf himself said in the program notes for Man U game last season that he has ambitions to play for England.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Same
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
There’s nothing wrong with being ambitious, I’m pretty certain Kalvin Phillips was a Championship player around Sheaf’s age.
I just wouldn’t bet on that outcome. Establish Premier league player one day, sure.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
No, it's not an unfair assessment. Lost count of the amount of times I've read on here that he's our best player or the best midfielder in the champ or worth £20M.
I don't think he's any of those, but it doesn't matter what I think. What matters is he misses a third of games every season and we can't have a player that has that kind of record. If we had a plethora of players that could slot into his place then it wouldn't be so bad, but we haven't.
It's hardly a secret we are short in midfield yet we have some who think it's fine he misses loads of games as that's what he's always done.
"We need to manage his minutes". LOL, he's not 36!
It's not good enough.
fatso
Well-Known Member
What???? Who said he could play for England???
He's a good championship level player, who looked at his best with decent players around him that looked to break quickly with pace and movement. (Hamer and O'hare for example) put him in a midfield of Eccles and Torp and he looks bang average.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t see him as an established premier league player. He’s 27 next month and not really making much impression this season
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
