Southport Stabbing (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
So you think they might be innocent?
If you were falsely charged with violent disorder for laughing at a firework, would you plead guilty to being a violent criminal?
Nick
Administrator
It depends on what legal advice was given. Especially as their list of crimes aren't actually violent. I'm also guessing they aren't the sharpest tools in the box.
Still, they shouted about their tax money. Send them down for years.
Wonder how the sentence compares to the sex offender that was being housed in there.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Bad
Do you would just admit to being a violent criminal for no reason? Take a jail sentence and a criminal record because someone else told you to?
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
They were really very wrong then weren’t they
Violent disorder carries a custodial sentence and rioting even more so
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Violent disorder CAN carry a custodial. It doesn't have to and doesn't always. Equally they could have been given eg 6 months but now out after time served on remand. Keeping them there in what we keep being told are overcrowded, serves no purpose to anyone.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I agree for non violent crime
But I don’t make the rules
Some of the non violent crime like throwing bricks at police officers or helping set fire to hotels is a bit violent
This case though is too much for what they did
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Which is the point I was originally making about this case in particular. As I said, lots of those playing to be the victim aren't, here I simply don't see it and really think they've been misrepresented and / or treated unfairly.
I find it astonishing that you wouldn’t stand up for yourself if you were falsely accused of violent crime, especially knowing the implications. Maybe you would just sit back and take it, personally I wouldn’t.
I actually agree with the earlier posters that the jail sentence sounds harsh to my uninformed ears.
What I don’t agree with is your attempts to run interference for these self-confessed violent criminals as just people “laughing at fireworks” like they’re a happy couple at Disneyland. I thought you were very concerned about people trying to deliberately paint criminals in a favourable light - these two blokes were caught red-handed engaging in violent disorder, admitted to it, and faced the consequences for it. Question the sentence all you want, but why go out of your way to minimise what they did?
nicksar
Well-Known Member
Why has man who raped teenage girl been given community service?
Furore over decision not to hand Sean Hogg a custodial sentence for raping 13-year-old in a Midlothian park.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Depends if they were guilty of violent disorder or not
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Not sure any trials have taken place
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The law is very different in Scotland isn’t itJust to add a bit of balanceWhy has man who raped teenage girl been given community service?
Furore over decision not to hand Sean Hogg a custodial sentence for raping 13-year-old in a Midlothian park.news.stv.tv
Wonder if it works in any way different to here in terms of reoffending
Nick
Administrator
You are still trying your hardest to miss the point again, aren't you?
I'm not minimising anything that they did, I am saying somebody laughing at a firework and shouting "our taxes" is far from somebody throwing a brick at a policeman, for example.
Let's face it, somebody could be done for violent disorder if they are sticking their fingers up at away fans if it's classed as "threatening". I get why you want to spin it as "violent criminals" though.
They pleaded guilty to and were convicted of violent disorder - how do you want me to refer to them?
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Taxi driver whose posts were 'catalyst' for Southport riots jailed
Andrew McIntyre, 39, set up a Telegram channel called 'Southport Wake Up', in the immediate aftermath of the knife attack in the Merseyside town on July 29 last year.
Absolute racist scumbag, who I feel no sympathy for and was instrumental in what happened. However ... no previous arrest and not to the attention of the police before, gets 7.5 years, when whilst he riled up and spread hatred, he only actually posted words and didnt carry out any actual violence.
What do the great and good of SBT think? Valid, ott deserves what he got, too light?
My view - I think it's a tremendous deterrent and proof that words do have consequences, which will hopefully make others think in the future, but I can't see any benefit in that length of sentence and whilst not all crimes are comparable, the length of other crimes that carry less than this who have committed some pretty awful acts makes it at least questionable.
7.5 years for someone who effectively served as the ringleader (and cheerleader) for some of the worst racist violence this country has seen in decades strikes me as incredibly lenient.Taxi driver whose posts were 'catalyst' for Southport riots jailed
Andrew McIntyre, 39, set up a Telegram channel called 'Southport Wake Up', in the immediate aftermath of the knife attack in the Merseyside town on July 29 last year.www.dailymail.co.uk
Absolute racist scumbag, who I feel no sympathy for and was instrumental in what happened. However ... no previous arrest and not to the attention of the police before, gets 7.5 years, when whilst he riled up and spread hatred, he only actually posted words and didnt carry out any actual violence.
What do the great and good of SBT think? Valid, ott deserves what he got, too light?
My view - I think it's a tremendous deterrent and proof that words do have consequences, which will hopefully make others think in the future, but I can't see any benefit in that length of sentence and whilst not all crimes are comparable, the length of other crimes that carry less than this who have committed some pretty awful acts makes it at least questionable.
Nick
Administrator
Taxi driver whose posts were 'catalyst' for Southport riots jailed
Andrew McIntyre, 39, set up a Telegram channel called 'Southport Wake Up', in the immediate aftermath of the knife attack in the Merseyside town on July 29 last year.
Absolute racist scumbag, who I feel no sympathy for and was instrumental in what happened. However ... no previous arrest and not to the attention of the police before, gets 7.5 years, when whilst he riled up and spread hatred, he only actually posted words and didnt carry out any actual violence.
What do the great and good of SBT think? Valid, ott deserves what he got, too light?
My view - I think it's a tremendous deterrent and proof that words do have consequences, which will hopefully make others think in the future, but I can't see any benefit in that length of sentence and whilst not all crimes are comparable, the length of other crimes that carry less than this who have committed some pretty awful acts makes it at least questionable.
Yeah, I think he definitely deserves a lot longer than the Tamworth couple (Although I have since seen they had matching football tops with their names on, so maybe they deserved life).
In terms of how long he got, is it worse than:
Somebody who was 8 times the drink drive limit and killed somebody?https://www.hampshire.police.uk/new...enced-for-causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/
Somebody who stabbed somebody and left them with brain damage? Faaris Khalid sentenced over stabbing in Grosvenor Park, Bradford
Somebody who stabbed somebody in the chest and leg and they died from their injuries after suffering for a couple of years? Man sentenced for murder after a teenager he assaulted died from his injuries five years later
Somebody who raped a 10 year old girl? https://www.northants.police.uk/new.../child-rapist-sentenced-to-six-years-in-jail/
I also think that it is evident that people knew it was committed by somebody following Islam from the off. That didn't help things that it wasn't mentioned, and then you had Starmer throwing fuel all over the fire.
In isolation, do you think the sentence was fair?
Nick
Administrator
I think jail yes but I'm not sure about 7.5 years. He was in possession of a knife which I think should be instant prison anyway and then add in the encouragement stuff. I'd have thought the 4.5 years or whatever that couple for was usually about right for that?
He pled guilty so does that usually mean less, too? It will be interesting to see what that MP who called on people to "slit throats" gets when sentenced as he's gone "not guilty".
This is where it gets random, there were the hope not hate people posting about Muslim women being acid attacked and how loads of far right skinheads were heading to Birmingham which turned out to be false. At the time it was said that anybody mentioning that the attacker was Muslim was "spreading misinformation" when it turns out, it wasn't misinformation.
"The encouragement stuff" seems quite important to me - this was seen as one of the more significant networks organising the initial unrest that eventually ended up with copycat violence across large parts of the country.
It would be nice to just talk about individual cases without it turning into endless "what about this case/what about that case", but the MP you mention (it was a councillor but whatever) wasn't organising specific violent protests and will presumably argue that he was being rhetorical rather than literal.
What has this got to do with anything?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Deeply uncomfortable with words leading to prison sentencesTaxi driver whose posts were 'catalyst' for Southport riots jailed
Andrew McIntyre, 39, set up a Telegram channel called 'Southport Wake Up', in the immediate aftermath of the knife attack in the Merseyside town on July 29 last year.
Absolute racist scumbag, who I feel no sympathy for and was instrumental in what happened. However ... no previous arrest and not to the attention of the police before, gets 7.5 years, when whilst he riled up and spread hatred, he only actually posted words and didnt carry out any actual violence.
What do the great and good of SBT think? Valid, ott deserves what he got, too light?
My view - I think it's a tremendous deterrent and proof that words do have consequences, which will hopefully make others think in the future, but I can't see any benefit in that length of sentence and whilst not all crimes are comparable, the length of other crimes that carry less than this who have committed some pretty awful acts makes it at least questionable.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Can argue the toss about someone following Islam surely
Nick
Administrator
To be fair, he should have done it in the name of Islam and encouraged people to carry out terror offences and he would have got less:
Birmingham Daesh supporter convicted of terror offences following friend's prison sentence
A 19-year-old man from Birmingham has today been found guilty of terrorism offences following a trial at Birmingham Crown Court.
www.counterterrorism.police.uk