Preferred Team and System (18 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Grimes and Eccles clinging onto those X and Y axes like goddamn barnacles

Torp a real outlier there
In data terms he’d be removed

 

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[clint van damme]

true but points are much more variable/chaotic than underlying stats

But ultimately are all that matter.

 

[Boicey]

It would be a real shame to lose the potential EMC has shown recently. We don't want him to lose that mindset he clicked in to.
I think Wright will need a slow rentroduction so hopefully EMC gets another good chance.

 

[TomRad85]

When debating which system is best, determining which one harvests the most points isnt relevant? OK.

Both graphs make our midfield look like one of the leagues stand out midfields. Nice reading.

 

[shmmeee]

When debating which system is best, determining which one harvests the most points isnt relevant? OK.

PPG is almost never relevant. Too many factors affecting it. The only PPG that matters is the league table at the end of the season.

 

[napolimp]

So with a midfield of Grimes, Torp, Rudoni, you get 2 players who are progressive and willing to try a risky pass, and one who is more controlled and guaranteed high pass completion. Seems like the ideal mixture.

 

[edgy]

So with a midfield of Grimes, Torp, Rudoni, you get 2 players who are progressive and willing to try a risky pass, and one who is more controlled and guaranteed high pass completion. Seems like the ideal mixture.

Just about to post this graphic:

 

[edgy]

PPG is almost never relevant. Too many factors affecting it. The only PPG that matters is the league table at the end of the season.

Or in the next pandemic

 

[SkyblueTexan]

I think we will stick with 3 5 2 tomorrow night but debut grimes in place of either Torp or Allen

I think so too. If that happens, I think Torp may need to make way for Grimes to give us more defensive solidity. Main thing is not lose even if we don’t win.

 

[clint van damme]

PPG is almost never relevant. Too many factors affecting it. The only PPG that matters is the league table at the end of the season.

Well, yeah!

 

[shmmeee]

Or in the next pandemic

In my defence that was technically the end of the season

 

[shmmeee]

Wonder if we try a 541 box with Torp and Rudoni ahead of Grimes and Sheaf when they’re all fit. Makes it even harder on our forwards though. Nice selection problems to have.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

really hard to leave Torp out, this just shows our strength in the middle now

I'm always a little bit suspect of the usefulness of these kind of things, but it is more compelling evidence that those wanting to drop Torp to make way for other midfielders is just even more baffling. Not that a graph is really needed to tell you that.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm always a little bit suspect of the usefulness of these kind of things, but it is more compelling evidence that those wanting to drop Torp to make way for other midfielders is just even more baffling. Not that a graph is really needed to tell you that.

Or that people who don’t rate Sheaf don’t know what they’re on about?

 

[fernandopartridge]

really hard to leave Torp out, this just shows our strength in the middle now

Rudoni right up there as well

 

[SBT]

"I'm suspicious of graphs, but the graph is clear, but also you don't need the graph"

 

[fernandopartridge]

I hate stats that don't conform to my prejudices

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Or that people who don’t rate Sheaf don’t know what they’re on about?

The common sense view would be simply that he's a good player, but we have better now. Realistically the only way he is getting in the team is by those determined to shoe horn him in and sacrifice players that have played very well, and made the difference in his absence.

 

[shmmeee]

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I hate stats that don't conform to my prejudices

The stats confirm more or less what you see on the pitch, with the caveat that they shouldn't be used in isolation. When you match them up with statistics like number of assists, you can see further accuracy of them. Which is why as I point out, they should be taken as helpful but not black and white.

I know it is hard for you to comprehend there is a chance that your favourite player is no longer good enough to be in the starting eleven, but surely you are bright enough to understand the reasons for that, and that football is not played on a one dimensional data graph.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The stats confirm more or less what you see on the pitch, with the caveat that they shouldn't be used in isolation. When you match them up with statistics like number of assists, you can see further accuracy of them. Which is why as I point out, they should be taken as helpful but not black and white.

I know it is hard for you to comprehend there is a chance that your favourite player is no longer good enough to be in the starting eleven, but surely you are bright enough to understand the reasons for that, and that football is not played on a one dimensional data graph.

Not sure how 'matching it up' with assists measures the accuracy of them at all really. Sheaf makes progressive passes whether they result in a goal or not and does not give the ball away a tremendous amount.

 

[Chicken Mcgraw]

Not sure how 'matching it up' with assists measures the accuracy of them at all really. Sheaf makes progressive passes whether they result in a goal or not and does not give the ball away a tremendous amount.

He doesn’t go to games so there’s no point explaining it to him.

 

[skysblue]

Dovin
MVE Thomas Kitching Bidwell
Sheaf Grimes
Wright Rudoni EMC
Sims

 

[skybluecam]

The stats confirm more or less what you see on the pitch, with the caveat that they shouldn't be used in isolation. When you match them up with statistics like number of assists, you can see further accuracy of them. Which is why as I point out, they should be taken as helpful but not black and white.

I know it is hard for you to comprehend there is a chance that your favourite player is no longer good enough to be in the starting eleven, but surely you are bright enough to understand the reasons for that, and that football is not played on a one dimensional data graph.

are you suggesting the graph above shows sheaf shouldn't be in the team? I don't see how it does?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

are you suggesting the graph above shows sheaf shouldn't be in the team? I don't see how it does?

Not sure how 'matching it up' with assists measures the accuracy of them at all really. Sheaf makes progressive passes whether they result in a goal or not and does not give the ball away a tremendous amount.

I don't think you're getting it.

Who are you dropping to fit Sheaf in?

 

[napolimp]

I don't think you're getting it.

Who are you dropping to fit Sheaf in?

Doesn't matter anyway, we'll inevitably get injuries in midfield as soon as Sheaf is back - maybe even Sheaf himself.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

"If it's not broke don't fix it"

The current formation albeit forced upon Frank Lampard by injuries, is getting results and I would be happy for Lampard to stick with this.

In the last six games since we switched to five at back*:

GA: 4
GS: 9
W: 5
L: 1

The six games beforehand:

GA: 8
GS: 8
W: 2
D: 2
L: 2

*I haven't added points here, but we've scored more points since going to five at the back and advanced to R4 of the FAC.

Of course there are ways to improve the team, Grimes coming in and the injured players coming back.

Dovin, MVE, Thomas, Kicthing, Lati, Bidwell, Grimes, Sheaf, Rudoni, Haji, Simms

There's always the possibility to switch it up during games if necessary.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Doesn't matter anyway, we'll inevitably get injuries in midfield as soon as Sheaf is back - maybe even Sheaf himself.

I agree with you on that - and this isn't at you personally - but it doesn't answer my question.

There are some people very quick to pile on and get upset, but they can't own it and answer the question. That is because realistically the only solutions are to change the shape or drop the players that have been working so well. We have been playing much better (once again) with Sheaf out the team, and it has caused a lot of defensiveness and abandonment of any kind of logic.

 

[napolimp]

I agree with you on that - and this isn't at you personally - but it doesn't answer my question.

There are some people very quick to pile on and get upset, but they can't own it and answer the question. That is because realistically the only solutions are to change the shape or drop the players that have been working so well. We have been playing much better (once again) with Sheaf out the team, and it has caused a lot of defensiveness and abandonment of any kind of logic.

I will say this, I assume Sheaf is still 4 or 5 matches away. And last time we clearly brought him back way to early, you could see him hobbling at times on the pitch and feeling his ankle. Easing him back in with 10 games to go means very little game time over the rest of the season. I think it will be more of a headache for the start of next season, depending on how the squad looks.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

"If it's not broke don't fix it"

The current formation albeit forced upon Frank Lampard by injuries, is getting results and I would be happy for Lampard to stick with this.

In the last six games since we switched to five at back*:

GA: 4
GS: 9
W: 5
L: 1

The six games beforehand:

GA: 8
GS: 8
W: 2
D: 2
L: 2

*I haven't added points here, but we've scored more points since going to five at the back and advanced to R4 of the FAC.

Of course there are ways to improve the team, Grimes coming in and the injured players coming back.

Dovin, MVE, Thomas, Kicthing, Lati, Bidwell, Grimes, Sheaf, Rudoni, Haji, Simms

There's always the possibility to switch it up during games if necessary.

Why is it just the formation that’s getting the results? In my opinion, the personnel changes have been more significant than changing from 4-2-3-1 to 5-3-2.

When we played 4-2-3-1 the starting XI was something like:

Collins/Dovin
MVE
Lati
Thomas
Bidwell
Sheaf
Eccles
Sakamoto
Torp/Rudoni
EMC/Rudoni
Bassette

Playing 5-3-2 we’ve settle on:

Dovin
MVE
Lati
Thomas
Kitching
Bidwell
Torp
Allen
Rudoni
BTA
Simms

That’s nearly half the team that’s change between the two systems. Before we changed formation, I argued before the formation switch was that we needed to start Simms and Kitching. Why? Kitching played in 75% of our clean sheets this season (under Robins) and Simms averaged a goal every 200 minutes. It was strange why Lampard started Bassette so often when you had 30+ goals sitting on the bench in Simms and BTA.

Bassette started 9 of the first 12 games post-Robins and scored 2 goals, no assists. At that point in the season, that was longest stretch of starts out of three: BTA-Simms-Bassette. After starting Simms and BTA, they have 3 goals apiece after 4-5 games.

When the crowd was saying we should sell BTA at a discounted rate it was pretty self-evident that he needed more game time in his preferred position rather than being shunted on the wing for 15-30 minutes a game.

The solutions were staring Robins, Carr and then Lampard in the face from Day 1.

 

[Boicey]

Anyone with two eyes and brain knows Sheaf has played poorly this season.
Slow, lacking aggression, poor at defensive cover, negative.
Exactly what we don't need right now.
We've undoubtedly been better off without him.

Saying he has been carrying an injury, with no evidence, or he needs better players around him when we are currently on a 4 win streak with these players doesn't cut it.

 

[WebbCCFC]

Once Sheaf is back, assuming we go back to 4-3-3, I wouldn't mind seeing Rudoni as an option at RW, don't think Sakamoto has had much impact at all this season and the assist for Torp's 1st goal v Watford has me thinking he could be an asset there. Sheaf in the 6, Grimes and Torp as the 2 8's

 

[shmmeee]

Once Sheaf is back, assuming we go back to 4-3-3, I wouldn't mind seeing Rudoni as an option at RW, don't think Sakamoto has had much impact at all this season and the assist for Torp's 1st goal v Watford has me thinking he could be an asset there. Sheaf in the 6, Grimes and Torp as the 2 8's

Disagree on Saka, I think under Lampards system he works well. But agree we might see Rudoni moved to accommodate Grimes Sheaf and Torp

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Because our two best players don’t fit in it

But the important thing is results and the team. We're on a winning run so don't mess with it for individuals (unless said individuals can fit into the system that's working).

With players coming back from injury it's best to bring them back in gently with sub appearances. Also with midweek games this and next week there is the argument that we will need more rotation to keep players fresh, hence why I could see Grimes come in tomorrow.

With Sheaf, I don't think his performances this season warrant him just being brought straight back in. Allen, Rudoni and Torp have done well and I'd rather see Grimes given a go replacing one of them first as I think he will be more progressive and, vitally, more of a leader on the pitch.

Up front is more of a quandary as we're working well with a front two and Wright and EMC both seem to work better off the left (but even if we change formation one of them is still missing out). Wright has played central striker before and I'd like to see him in a partnership, and EMC is supposed to be able to play all across the front line so I wonder if he could be played as a striker with a right to roam out wide a bit more compared to his strike partner?

But to totally change a winning formation just to accommodate these players coming back would be mad.

 

[JSL]

All this talk about dropping Torp to bring Sheaf back is causing me concern. Torp has come to life since Sheaf has been out and doesnt deserve to be dropped. I also don't see both Sheaf and Grimes in the same team. We only need one or the other.

Whats more concerning is that i see it being difficult to justify Sheaf getting back in the team. Results and performances have improved without him.