Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (30 Viewers)

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

No he's not doing that, of course. But he is handing parts of a sovereign nation to a hostile invader with absolutely no penalty or concessions, in fact the opposite - he's making the invaded nation pay for it.

He's handing it over? Putin already took it. Ukraine have absolutely no chance of getting it back, and they have next to no leverage in this whole thing. There is zero chance of successful military action against Russia, so whilst it is far from ideal, or just, the only way this ends is with some concessions. That's it.

 

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[Otis]

Instead of being split like the usual SBT Off Topic Threads in terms of right leaning and left leaning, it seems that this one is split by adults and children.

Some of the posts on here are embarrassing.

Yeah, maybe, but we are kind of used to you by now to be honest.

 

[PVA]

He's handing it over? Putin already took it. Ukraine have absolutely no chance of getting it back, and they have next to no leverage in this whole thing. There is zero chance of successful military action against Russia, so whilst it is far from ideal, or just, the only way this ends is with some concessions. That's it.

OK fine, but why penalise Ukraine for it? Surely ceding the territory is enough, why must Trump then insist Ukraine pays huge reparations?

That makes absolutely no sense and clearly shows which camp Trump is in.

 

[PVA]

The NY Post, who endorsed Trump, pulls him up on his bullshit:

 

[Otis]

He's said some stupid shit, like inferring that Ukraine started it, yes. I suspect this is a combination of having a personal pop at Zelensky, whilst simultaneously softening Putin up to gain some leverage - the key point that many people seem to be missing. He isn't sending tanks into Kyiv, or helping Russia conduct bombing raids on Lviv.

What sort of concessions do you think Trump will get out of Putin?

(Serious question and not a dig)

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You're talking as if Trump and co. respect the constitution and due process when their actions suggest the opposite. It's just a case of finding a pretence for it.

I’m sorry, but this is nonsense. Either he is a dictator and announces he will suspend the next elections or he democratically amends the constitution to remove the 2 term limit (only introduced after WW2). As mentioned, the latter requires a congressional supermajority. He literally won’t be able to run for election without it as the courts will block him appearing on the ballot papers.

 

[Marty]

Do none of you have anything better to do with your time? Glued to this forum day and night.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Yeah, maybe, but we are kind of used to you by now to be honest.

What sort of concessions do you think Trump will get out of Putin?

(Serious question and not a dig)

Another really grown up set of posts. Do you have anything else useful to contribute?

I have no idea what Trump will get out of it - who does? From my point of view, the first thing that comes is to stop the war.

 

[mmttww]

I’m sorry, but this is nonsense...

He incited an insurrection. He's a convicted felon. He hoarded security documents at his house. He's repressing perceived enemies with executive orders and by firing civil servants. He encourages white power organisations and is fine with allies or appointments to his team throwing Nazi salutes. He's a tyrant and a sex pest. Tell me how that doesn't look like disrespecting the constitution and due process. I'm all ears.

 

[djr8369]

He isn’t defending just stating an obvious fact

It’s that Trump is bullying Ukraine too that people are up in arms about. It’s not some groundbreaking insight only you and a couple of others see.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The Supreme Court declared the president to be above the law and the man himself threatens any judge who rules against him. If he simply refuses to leave office who will make him leave? Nobody.

You don’t know about dictators do you?

Real dictators go out of their way to legitimise their power grabs. Hence even North Korea has ‘elections’ for local officials to its assembly.

To govern, you also need control of the bureaucracy which is why, even with a democratic mandate, the Trump admin is having to push some of its agenda through the courts. He wouldn’t be able to govern even if he refused to leave office.

For all his bleating that he was cheated in 2020 and actually won the election, he actually left office so this idea he will refuse to leave office now is just derangement.

The only way he stays in office is if he decided to run as a running mate for a Presidential candidate. Thats what Putin did to get around the consecutive terms rule where he served as President-Prime Minister-President before amending the constitution. Again, there are very different political cultures in the USA v Russia, specifically the checks and balances.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He incited an insurrection. He's a convicted felon. He hoarded security documents at his house. He's repressing perceived enemies with executive orders and by firing civil servants. He encourages white power organisations and is fine with allies or appointments to his team throwing Nazi salutes. He's a tyrant and a sex pest. Tell me how that doesn't look like disrespecting the constitution and due process. I'm all ears.

Classic case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. He’s not a very good dictator if he leaves office despite believing he was cheated in 2020.

Biden literally mobilised the DOJ to try and convict his political rival. That is what real authoritarian leaders do.

There isn’t anything wrong with firing civil servants if you don’t believe they’ll carry out your agenda. On the security documents and executive orders, Biden was guilty of the exact same thing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Classic case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. He’s not a very good dictator if he leaves office despite believing he was cheated in 2020.

Biden literally mobilised the DOJ to try and convict his political rival. That is what real authoritarian leaders do.

There isn’t anything wrong with firing civil servants if you don’t believe they’ll carry out your agenda. On the security documents and executive orders, Biden was guilty of the exact same thing.

One small problem with that theory and it is a theory. The investigations into Trump started when Trump was in office.

 

[mmttww]

Classic case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

It's genuinely terrifying to me that anyone would be an apologist for him and try to equate the way he operates with others. Facism didn't work great last time out. Is that not something that occurs to you?

 

[Otis]

Another really grown up set of posts. Do you have anything else useful to contribute?

I have no idea what Trump will get out of it - who does? From my point of view, the first thing that comes is to stop the war.

The first one was a joke.

And secondly, I merely asked, because people are talking of concessions. I just can't see what that could possibly be from the Russian side.

 

[Ian1779]

He incited an insurrection. He's a convicted felon. He hoarded security documents at his house. He's repressing perceived enemies with executive orders and by firing civil servants. He encourages white power organisations and is fine with allies or appointments to his team throwing Nazi salutes. He's a tyrant and a sex pest. Tell me how that doesn't look like disrespecting the constitution and due process. I'm all ears.

So why couldn’t Harris beat him?

 

[SBT]

For all his bleating that he was cheated in 2020 and actually won the election, he actually left office

 

[mmttww]

So why couldn’t Harris beat him?

Because she, like Biden, was totally useless.

 

[djr8369]

The first one was a joke.

And secondly, I merely asked, because people are talking of concessions. I just can't see what that could possibly be from the Russian side.

I guess if there’s any concession it will benefit Trump, he won’t even attempt to get anything for Ukraine.
As above though, that’s why people are so disgusted with him.

The worrying thing is what if Trump gets his deal but Ukraine and Europe reject it.

 

[PVA]

I guess if there’s any concession it will benefit Trump, he won’t even attempt to get anything for Ukraine.
As above though, that’s why people are so disgusted with him.

The worrying thing is what if Trump gets his deal but Ukraine and Europe reject it.

No idea how genuine it is but I saw a Finnish MEP said that Ukraine and Europe had 3 weeks to agree to a deal, if they did not then the US would withdraw from Europe.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's genuinely terrifying to me that anyone would be an apologist for him and try to equate the way he operates with others. Facism didn't work great last time out. Is that not something that occurs to you?

I’d ask you to define fascism but there’s little hope of that when you can’t spell it properly.

It’s a real shame that the word ‘fascist’ gets bandied about so casually that it starts to lose its proper meaning. People like you dilute its meaning to just people who you don’t like and disagree with.

 

[mmttww]

I’d ask you to define fascism but there’s little hope of that when you can’t spell it properly.

It’s a real shame that the word ‘fascist’ gets bandied about so casually that it starts to lose its proper meaning. People like you dilute its meaning to just people who you don’t like and disagree with.

Oh get f*cked.

If Trump's someone you'll make excuses for I'm sad to think I might end up stood near you at a game watching my football club.

 

[PVA]

I’d ask you to define fascism but there’s little hope of that when you can’t spell it properly.

It’s a real shame that the word ‘fascist’ gets bandied about so casually that it starts to lose its proper meaning. People like you dilute its meaning to just people who you don’t like and disagree with.

A couple of definitions of fascism:

'a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed'

'a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition'


And the early warning signs of fascism:

It's not hard to see why the word is bandied about towards Trump is it?

 

[LarryGrayson]

Instead of being split like the usual SBT Off Topic Threads in terms of right leaning and left leaning, it seems that this one is split by adults and children.

Some of the posts on here are embarrassing.

witch side you on lol

 

[Flying Fokker]

So why couldn’t Harris beat him?

I think the weakness of the Democrats campaign may have influenced things.

Old man as candidate seen as disrespectful.

Decision made too late for BJ to go.

Woman of color.

 

[Flying Fokker]

A couple of definitions of fascism:

'a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed'

'a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition'


And the early warning signs of fascism:

It's not hard to see why the word is bandied about towards Trump is it?

Add to that, a blind faith amongst Christian’s evangelicals who do not see his demeanors/ think everyone who is not a Christian is fundamentally wrong.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Oh get f*cked.

If Trump's someone you'll make excuses for I'm sad to think I might end up stood near you at a game watching my football club.

I just said that he’s not going to be a dictator nor get a 3rd term without a supermajority in congress. Then you’ve gone and done the mental gymnastics of calling him a fascists and how he just needs a pretence for what he wants to do. Believe that if you want, it just seems like you’re paranoid.

Just for consistency, I didn’t like it when Trump or people on the right called Kamala Harris a communist. She clearly isn’t and this dilution of terms for political mudslinging is not helpful.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

A couple of definitions of fascism:

'a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed'

'a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition'


And the early warning signs of fascism:

It's not hard to see why the word is bandied about towards Trump is it?

Of those fascistic features, which applies to Trump in your view?

The Republican Party of 2024 does not resemble the blackshirts or brown shirts of 1920s Italy or Germany. Traditional mainstream media outlets remain hostile to Trump and is free. As is social media.

The political system of the USA has robust checks and balances. Hence the Trump administration is in the courts to push through their agenda.

The government is trying to decentralise the state rather than state control of the economy…

Unless you’re playing fast and loose with certain words and definitions, the Trump administration is just not fascist at all. Conservative in nature, certainly.

 

[mmttww]

the mental gymnastics of calling him a fascists.

"Fascism... is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."

He talks about genetics all the time. He's created a team that didn't exist before and given it carte blanche to circumvent checks and balances that are in place to keep politics out of civil service.

His appointments often have no expertise in the field they're assigned to and are either donors or rich captains of industry (or both). His right hand man literally offered people money to vote for him.

He's threatened Greenland with military force and proposed rehoming Palestinians into designated settlements. He's making deals with a dictator and wants countries to spend more on their military.

One of his first acts was to go after inclusion programmes aimed at marginalised and vulnerable groups. He says 'America First' all the time. He's done all he can to suppress dissent ('fake news').

It took a few mins to go through a solid, fairly unbiased definition of fascism and find examples of him acting it out. If you can't see the analog with historic fascism in there, I'm confused.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Do none of you have anything better to do with your time? Glued to this forum day and night.

Some even go to the extent of making alt accounts. If you just deliberately spell things a bit incorrectly, or use terminology that you wouldn't usually use, maybe no one will notice who you are...

When this site goes down, I do genuinely fear for a few.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Classic case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. He’s not a very good dictator if he leaves office despite believing he was cheated in 2020.

Biden literally mobilised the DOJ to try and convict his political rival. That is what real authoritarian leaders do.

There isn’t anything wrong with firing civil servants if you don’t believe they’ll carry out your agenda. On the security documents and executive orders, Biden was guilty of the exact same thing.

Jesus wept

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

"Fascism... is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."

He talks about genetics all the time. He's created a team that didn't exist before and given it carte blanche to circumvent checks and balances that are in place to keep politics out of civil service.

His appointments often have no expertise in the field they're assigned to and are either donors or rich captains of industry (or both). His right hand man literally offered people money to vote for him.

He's threatened Greenland with military force and proposed rehoming Palestinians into designated settlements. He's making deals with a dictator and wants countries to spend more on their military.

One of his first acts was to go after inclusion programmes aimed at marginalised and vulnerable groups. He says 'America First' all the time. He's done all he can to suppress dissent ('fake news').

It took a few mins to go through a solid, fairly unbiased definition of fascism and find examples of him acting it out. If you can't see the analog with historic fascism in there, I'm confused.

Go and compare what you’ve described to Mussolini and Hitler’s parties (or even Jean Le Pen’s NF) in the past and if you can’t tell the difference, I’m happy for us to knock the convo on its head and agree to disagree.

In fact, you don’t have to because Trump has served one term already and it was not fascist in character.

This ‘analysis’ reminds me of the deranged right wingers calling Obama communist because he wants to ‘redistribute wealth’ amongst other things. Again, it’s a distortion of language.

Imagine a US president saying ‘America First’, what a fascist sentiment.

 

[mmttww]

This ‘analysis’ reminds me of the deranged right wingers calling Obama communist because he wants to ‘redistribute wealth’ amongst other things. Again, it’s a distortion of language.

People who set the agenda or are part of his inner circle are throwing Nazi salutes at rallies and inaugurations. It's not analysis, it's them telling you what they are.

 

[PVA]

Go and compare what you’ve described to Mussolini and Hitler’s parties (or even Jean Le Pen’s NF) in the past and if you can’t tell the difference, I’m happy for us to knock the convo on its head and agree to disagree.

I don’t think you have to murder 6 million Jews to be a fascist though, maybe that’s where the difference in our definition lies. That’s clearly one very extreme end of the fascism spectrum, but doesn’t mean Trump (or anyone else) can’t show fascist traits unless they do the things Hitler did.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

People who set the agenda or are part of his inner circle are throwing Nazi salutes at rallies and inaugurations. It's not analysis, it's them telling you what they are.

… Has Trump thrown a Nazi salute?

Musk’s salute was not Nazi one. This is ridiculous rhetoric.