Do you want to discuss boring politics? (41 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Government budgets have gone up, that’s not austerity. I agree people will need to see change. I don’t agree that because this government isn’t deficit spending like there’s no tomorrow they’re “right wing” words mean things. Nationalised infrastructure and workers rights are by definition left wing. Blair privatised health and education, Starmer is renationalising them and undoing the Tory reforms. These are just facts and repeating far right talking points and scouring far right websites for rebuttals like FP does doesn’t convince me that a fear of the far right is what drives the criticism.

I said I'd stop posting on this thread and I will, but I have to take task with lies. Which far right websites do I scan for rebuttals? Please provide evidence.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

The ONS is reporting that the treasury has borrowed £63bn more than forecasted before Labour came into government and £20.4bn than the OBR projected (the ever reliable OBR).

Growth projections have been halved, the £ is down 0.2% on the dollar… this government is utterly clueless.

Cheer up everyone, we’ve got until 2029 till the next election!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The ONS is reporting that the treasury has borrowed £63bn more than forecasted before Labour came into government and £20.4bn than the OBR projected (the ever reliable OBR).

Growth projections have been halved, the £ is down 0.2% on the dollar… this government is utterly clueless.

Cheer up everyone, we’ve got until 2029 till the next election!

Even if I wanted to vote I’ve no idea who it would even be for, it’s a total shitshow.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Your assumption is faulty because it assumes that if inflation goes up, the entire operating costs must go up in line that. Which ignores things like long term contracts and so. Ironically, this is actually an argument for a monetarist fiscal policy which prioritises inflation as the most important thing for the government.

In its current format, the existing model of the welfare state is unlikely to survive the dual population trap of an aging society and mass migration.

Operating costs are also not necessarily constrained to the broad measure of inflation either, it works both ways. Some types of organisation are more heavily exposed to inflation because of their spend profile and the extent to which they spend money externally.

I have just looked at the accounts for a large NHS Trust, its costs went up by 9.5% y-o-y. The annualised CPI rate at the end of that accounting period was 3.4%.

Long term contracts have indexation provisions in them. Employment contracts are uplifted by a 'cost of living' payment, and in the case of the NHS and local authorities, spinal payments to move people up pay bands.

 

[shmmeee]

I said I'd stop posting on this thread and I will, but I have to take task with lies. Which far right websites do I scan for rebuttals? Please provide evidence.

x.com

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You end up spending that and more later on anyway just to paper over the cracks because you let things get into such a state not funding it in the first place, as you pointed out re: the NHS. So what do you think the cost will be to get it up to scratch in another 10-20 years time when we haven't bothered yet again now?

Or the other option is just to let society disintegrate and let in turn into a free-for-all where everyone grabs what they can for themselves while everything around them crumbles.

That’s what’s happening

 

[fernandopartridge]

x.com

I have shared some tweets from Keir Starmer and for that I apologise profusely.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Even if I wanted to vote I’ve no idea who it would even be for, it’s a total shitshow.

I’m the same. I do not trust the tories and do not find Reform to be credible at all. If an election was held tomorrow, spoil your ballot.

We’re coming to the end of the ‘Blairite’ consensus, that’s for sure.

 

[chiefdave]

You end up spending that and more later on anyway just to paper over the cracks because you let things get into such a state not funding it in the first place, as you pointed out re: the NHS. So what do you think the cost will be to get it up to scratch in another 10-20 years time when we haven't bothered yet again now?

Seeing it now. Huge cuts in the last 15 years to mental health services. Now we have the government scratching their heads about why there's so many people unable to work because of mental health issues.

But rather than fix the problem they're going to try forcing them back to work by cutting any benefit payments they get which I'm sure will be a massive boost to their mental health.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m the same. I do not trust the tories and do not find Reform to be credible at all. If an election was held tomorrow, spoil your ballot.

We’re coming to the end of the ‘Blairite’ consensus, that’s for sure.

I think much like Stoke City, perhaps the country needs to be relegated to just sort itself out, rebuild and come back stronger. Labour was given a free hand in Parliament, and a fair bit of goodwill from a public sick of the Tories. They could have used it to deliver bold and transformative change for the country which would have seen off the Reform threat and easily secured another term.

Instead, they have targeted the most vulnerable in society, embraced attacks on the civil service, and are doing just as bad a job on the economy as their predecessors. As a result I see us sleepwalking into a Reform government, either absolutely or in coalition.

 

[Captain Dart]

I have shared some tweets from Keir Starmer and for that I apologise profusely.

Be sure to steer clear of mad Ed.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I have shared some tweets from Keir Starmer and for that I apologise profusely.

They really help with my insomnia so please keep them coming

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think much like Stoke City, perhaps the country needs to be relegated to just sort itself out, rebuild and come back stronger. Labour was given a free hand in Parliament, and a fair bit of goodwill from a public sick of the Tories. They could have used it to deliver bold and transformative change for the country which would have seen off the Reform threat and easily secured another term.

Instead, they have targeted the most vulnerable in society, embraced attacks on the civil service, and are doing just as bad a job on the economy as their predecessors. As a result I see us sleepwalking into a Reform government, either absolutely or in coalition.

Reform shit show not government

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think much like Stoke City, perhaps the country needs to be relegated to just sort itself out, rebuild and come back stronger. Labour was given a free hand in Parliament, and a fair bit of goodwill from a public sick of the Tories. They could have used it to deliver bold and transformative change for the country which would have seen off the Reform threat and easily secured another term.

Instead, they have targeted the most vulnerable in society, embraced attacks on the civil service, and are doing just as bad a job on the economy as their predecessors. As a result I see us sleepwalking into a Reform government, either absolutely or in coalition.

This cracked me up man!

Electing an activist solicitor to lead the Labour Party was a huge mistake. I felt that Starmer in particular is very poorly equipped to govern the country in this moment. His biggest weakness is on immigration and that’s the biggest source of discontent in this country.

There have been polls circulating that Reform are ahead of Labour and the Tories. A lot could change in the next 4 years but it’s not looking good for Labour or the Tories. On a personal note, I fundamentally do not trust Farage or Reform.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This cracked me up man!

Electing an activist solicitor to lead the Labour Party was a huge mistake. I felt that Starmer in particular is very poorly equipped to govern the country in this moment. His biggest weakness is on immigration and that’s the biggest source of discontent in this country.

There have been polls circulating that Reform are ahead of Labour and the Tories. A lot could change in the next 4 years but it’s not looking good for Labour or the Tories. On a personal note, I fundamentally do not trust Farage or Reform.

Christ knows what league we’re in

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The ONS is reporting that the treasury has borrowed £63bn more than forecasted before Labour came into government and £20.4bn than the OBR projected (the ever reliable OBR).

Growth projections have been halved, the £ is down 0.2% on the dollar… this government is utterly clueless.

Cheer up everyone, we’ve got until 2029 till the next election!

Well at least we've proved conclusively that right wing economic policy of cuts is a busted flush. Both the Tories and Labour have had a crack at it with pretty similar results so I think we can safely say that the issue is with the policy rather than those implementing it.

Not that the country will learn and I fear there's a real chance we could just end up supersizing the policy under Farage and Reform.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

That’s what’s happening

I know it is. That's why I put it as the alternative.

 

[chiefdave]

Well at least we've proved conclusively that right wing economic policy of cuts is a busted flush. Both the Tories and Labour have had a crack at it with pretty similar results so I think we can safely say that the issue is with the policy rather than those implementing it.

You've made the mistake of thinking the desired result is for services to improve rather than for more money to flow to those at the top.

 

[Mcbean]

The biggest Labour joker for me is Milliband - in charge of the net zero target the man is a complete imbecile - he is in charge of the biggest budget but I wouldn’t let him run a school tuck shop - he spouts verbal diarrhoea and has no idea what it costs to put air or ground source heating into older properties

 

[Ian1779]

Change

 

[Sick Boy]

Interestingly, some of Starmer’s biggest supporters who claimed he would lurch to the left once in power seem to be very quiet on here these days.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interestingly, some of Starmer’s biggest supporters who claimed he would lurch to the left once in power seem to be very quiet on here these days.

The new line is that he’s just front loading all the unpopular stuff now, the good stuff will come later.

 

[SBAndy]

The new line is that he’s just front loading all the unpopular stuff now, the good stuff will come later.

So that was my initial thoughts as to what was going on. But they’ve (knowingly) pinned themselves into a corner regarding fiscal policy, only for external factors to blow a hole in their plans. The fact they’re making further cuts already says they’ve made an error and will compound this by dogmatically sticking to their ‘fiscal rules’.

 

[Mcbean]

When will Rachel from accounts fall on her sword or will it be the Truss move from Starmergeddon where she sacked Kwasi to save her soul and failed

 

[CCFCSteve]

So that was my initial thoughts as to what was going on. But they’ve (knowingly) pinned themselves into a corner regarding fiscal policy, only for external factors to blow a hole in their plans. The fact they’re making further cuts already says they’ve made an error and will compound this by dogmatically sticking to their ‘fiscal rules’.

Fiscal rules are required to at least try to maintain control over borrowing costs. I respect FPs alternative view on this but I (and pretty much every country in the world) just see it as totally unworkable and/or likely to crash financial system if they tried it

Ultimately though Reeves already changed debt/fiscal rules to free up £50bn-£60bn for additional investment and extra tax which should generate £36bn per year - this is often ignored by many. I have no issue with either of these and actually think theyre well needed. It was how it’s spent and how much wriggle room Reeves left/didn’t leave which has boxed her in.

I still think the biggest mistake was ruling out certain tax generators during the election campaign which has left her with the employers NIC increases which will negatively impact growth and probably wages as well - which might both then make it harder to meet fiscal rules . The fact is unless public sector productivity improves and the additional spending has some positive impact on GDP growth, and quickly, this situation will get worse

I do feel a bit of sympathy for Reeves/the government as borrowing costs are going through the roof which then eats away at available cash to spend. What many don’t seem to want to accept is if the government followed their ‘money no object’ policies this would probably get even worse