CCFC Ltd cannot be run at a loss... (6 Viewers)

[oldskyblue58]

I havent Grendel but that would be £1m per year max I would guess...... not sure CCFC will get that, they might get part. But even then we still make losses without selling players and good cup runs...... should they have all that income?

 

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[oldskyblue58]

And at present, we have no shirt sponsor for next season.

very true ..... the total income i used included 330k for that (apparently was £1m over 3 years)

 

[hutch1972]

Too many people trying to make a pound out of this. Isn't McGinnity involved in the Compass group? Pretty sure he was owner of the company that made all the seats for the ground too.

He was certainly involved in seats for stadiums, not sure if they were used for the Ricoh though. I would love to know how many palms were greased since 1997 when the plan was hatched and how many still are !

 

[Sick Boy]

However, if you imagine it was Hoffman using these tactics to lower the rent, I guarantee you 99% of the fans would fully support him.

I have stated this before as well, you can guarantee that those who are against what SISU are currently doing would be proclaiming Hoffman a saviour if he used the same tactics.

 

[Bluegloucester]

very true ..... the total income i used included 330k for that (apparently was £1m over 3 years)

Doesn't look good with or without it.

 

[Grendel]

I havent Grendel but that would be £1m per year max I would guess...... not sure CCFC will get that, they might get part. But even then we still make losses without selling players and good cup runs...... should they have all that income?

I would say yes they should. Ultimately the branding is intrinsic to the football club. The name of the brand sponsor is publicised most due to the club. The contract almost certainly will be signed in the basis of their being a permenant resident in place. Same for sponsors of stands. I assume the club gets day to day sponsors anyway.

The club has a huge influence on the stadium and its regard in many ways. This should not be underestimated.

The club will want this I am sure. I would.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Makes you wonder why the squad is so big, bigger than Tranmere.

 

[Bluegloucester]

I would say yes they should. Ultimately the branding is intrinsic to the football club. The name of the brand sponsor is publicised most due to the club. The contract almost certainly will be signed in the basis of their being a permenant resident in place. Same for sponsors of stands. I assume the club gets day to day sponsors anyway.

The club has a huge influence on the stadium and its regard in many ways. This should not be underestimated.

The club will want this I am sure. I would.

Lloyds Pharmacy sponsorship was negotiated by CCFC, not sure who gets the income.

 

[torchomatic]

Interesting. That proves then that ACLs business model was wrong from the very start. They took advantage of CCFC charging them an extorinate rent when we were desperate. They got used to all that lovely cash coming in and overstretched themselves. Now, they can't cope without it. Totally disproving the "we don't need 'em" attitude.

Sisu seem to think it is acceptable for ACL to run at a loss though.

Whatever deal is struck should be benificial to both parties. ACL shouldn't offer a rent deal that would see itself go into the red.

This magical 'average league 1 rent' that Fisher keeps going on about is irrelevant if ACL can't afford to offer it.

 

[Grendel]

Makes you wonder why the squad is so big, bigger than Tranmere.

A pointless and immature post. What that says us you want the club denied income steams - increasingly your posts suggest you have little interest in the club at all. Most clubs want investment and care little where it comes from.

In the championship we would be one the the bottom teams on income stream. Is that what you want. Are you pleased that we would be the only club to not get revenue from these streams in the whole league?

Aren't you concerned that we have for years paid more rent than any club in the championship and yet were the only club never to benefit from these incomes? It's an absurd handicap.

Tranmere will never get to the premiership without massive changes. Are you happy we will be as competitive as them in the championship. Sadly given your desire to feed the greedy bloated ACL belly your answer is probably yes.

 

[torchomatic]

Fuck them off, I say. Move out of the Ricoh and into our own ground.

Then let's see if ACL sink or swim.

 

[Godiva]

Currently I would estimate that income from normal activities is £5.2m to which is added the profits on Keogh Bigi & Robins say £2.1m total circa £7.3m.
Costs meanwhile are £4m in player wages under FFP, say another £1m for younger players not covered, managers, coaches, directors etc. Direct costs are circa £1m (confirmed be TF on Friday radio morning show) Other overhead costs excluding rent say £3m, Interest payable £1m +..... Holding company costs £500k.

That lot adds up to a loss of £3.2. and that is before the legal and professional costs of the dispute that suspect CCFC is liable for.... that wont be cheap. Yes I know that it is all guesswork but what if it was close to reality?

final thought is that TF says SISU are now owed £45m+ ..... 31st May 2011 it was £30m...... thats funding of £15m+ in 20 months..... where is it going?.

That raises a lot of questions

How old are the latest accounts?
What exactly is 'direct costs'? (I didn't hear the Friday radio show)
Interest £1m+ ... have the club started to pay interest to the sisu funds, or are this interest payable to ARVO? How accurate is the figure? Do we actually pay the interests or is it added to the debt?

I am curious about TF saying sisu are owed £45m+. Didn't he in the summer say most of the debt was converted to equity?

I may think of a few more later ...

 

[torchomatic]

Last season people, you too probably, were moaning we had kids on the bench. If we don't get more income then come 13/14 we'll go back to just that.

Makes you wonder why the squad is so big, bigger than Tranmere.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I have stated this before as well, you can guarantee that those who are against what SISU are currently doing would be proclaiming Hoffman a saviour if he used the same tactics.

So this whole argument is pretty pointless then.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Godiva ...... the answers to most of that is in my original post and others ...... you have to do some work yanno

 

[oldskyblue58]

Torch ........ if my post is anywhere close then SISU's business model isnt very clever either ...... even if they got the income streams and no rent to pay

 

[torchomatic]

Don't disagree. And I'm glad you said "either"

Torch ........ if my post is anywhere close then SISU's business model isnt very clever either ...... even if they got the income streams and no rent to pay

 

[Bluegloucester]

Torch ........ if my post is anywhere close then SISU's business model isnt very clever either ...... even if they got the income streams and no rent to pay

Not sure who interest is paid to, previously no interest was paid on what I assume were shareholder loans. I think Igwe confirmed this.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I think what OSB said was that the finances of ACL+CCFC as they stand are effectively unsustainable, and it is CCFCs financial model that generates the biggest losses.

However does ACL's model as it stands and where it is prepared to move to just about sustainable? If the club goes then ACL may become unsustainable, but presumably they've built a margin into their figures to secure their position with or without CCFC.

It is a rock & a hard place. Whatever happens there will be tears.

Ultimately I want the club to be run on a basis of break even over any 5 year period and run by owners who are in the long game & want to stay as custodians of the club for many years. I believe that is pretty much the way most football clubs were run in the 60's & 70's when they wasn't a steady stream of clubs facing administration as far as I can remember.

 

[Sick Boy]

So this whole argument is pretty pointless then.

There are a number of posters who seem to be more concerned with the profits that ACL make than their football club being competitive. It would not surprise me if these same people slated SISU when we are fielding the youth team next season and facing relegation to league 2. At least ACL would be raking it in still, so who cares about the club!

 

[coundonskyblue]

Fuck them off, I say. Move out of the Ricoh and into our own ground.

Then let's see if ACL sink or swim.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth....

 

[coundonskyblue]

Interesting. That proves then that ACLs business model was wrong from the very start. They took advantage of CCFC charging them an extorinate rent when we were desperate. They got used to all that lovely cash coming in and overstretched themselves. Now, they can't cope without it. Totally disproving the "we don't need 'em" attitude.

ACL's business model is sound, its based on CCFC paying rent.

If CCFC cannot pay that rent the problem is with their business model, not ACL's.

 

[sky blue john]

Yes but they have every year in charge but if Acl need the counsel to bail them out then nobodys got spare money in the pot !!!!
Still to understand the CCFC cash cow that many claim is there !!!!

 

[stupot07]

Wasn't the last accounts published that of 2010/11?

 

[sky blue john]

feck them off, I say. Move out of the Ricoh and into our own ground.

Then let's see if ACL sink or swim.

Agreed i would like to see this happen. The problem is how often has any of TF's statements come to fluition?

 

[coundonskyblue]

Agreed i would like to see this happen. The problem is how often has any of TF's statements come to fluition?

Never going to happen, why would Coventry Council give planning permission for another ground in the city while one sits empty?

 

[cloughie]

Fuck them off, I say. Move out of the Ricoh and into our own ground.

Then let's see if ACL sink or swim.

Pathetic

£400,000 a year offered and only £150,000 of that rent

So £150.000 a year is going to tip ACL over the edge

 

[sky blue john]

Never going to happen, why would Coventry Council give planning permission for another ground in the city while one sits empty?

Never mind the planning permission Sisu would need to buy a plot of land suitable. Once they have done this i will believe that building a new stadium is not bullshit !!!!

 

[Sick Boy]

Pathetic

£400,000 a year offered and only £150,000 of that rent

So £150.000 a year is going to tip ACL over the edge

Where do you think that most of the money which is generated comes from? How would ACL survive without CCFC playing at the arena?

 

[Grendel]

Pathetic

£400,000 a year offered and only £150,000 of that rent

So £150.000 a year is going to tip ACL over the edge

No so therefore as a community project they should do the decent thing. They don't need the money you've just said so. The councils at Brighton hull Doncaster Ipswich and Portsmouth help their clubs and give them a competitive advantage. Our council however has seen the club as a cash cow for a decade. Something to suck fro like a leach. Bet you wished you lived in a council where community means something cloughie? I know I do.

 

[cloughie]

Where do you think that most of the money which is generated comes from? How would ACL survive without CCFC playing at the arena?

You obviously have not been past the arena most days of the week when there are 1 and sometimes 2 Exhibitions going on each day plus the music events

 

[cloughie]

No so therefore as a community project they should do the decent thing. They don't need the money you've just said so. The councils at Brighton hull Doncaster Ipswich and Portsmouth help their clubs and give them a competitive advantage. Our council however has seen the club as a cash cow for a decade. Something to suck fro like a leach. Bet you wished you lived in a council where community means something cloughie? I know I do.

£150,000 rent is competative and if you think that £150,000 is going to make a difference ie Mcgoldrick staying then you are misguided

 

[torchomatic]

Who says it has to be in the City? Ryton is in Warwickshire for instance. As for the Ricoh. Who cares, ACL don't. They are very "busy" don't forget and have already said that the Club "should get out of Coventry". Nuneaton Town could move in or there could be lots of rugby games, etc etc. The world is ACL's oyster.

Never going to happen, why would Coventry Council give planning permission for another ground in the city while one sits empty?

 

[torchomatic]

Well, there you go. ACL will be alright then, won't they?

You obviously have not been past the arena most days of the week when there are 1 and sometimes 2 Exhibitions going on each day plus the music events

 

[coundonskyblue]

Who says it has to be in the City? Ryton is in Warwickshire for instance. As for the Ricoh. Who cares, ACL don't. They are very "busy" don't forget and have already said that the Club "should get out of Coventry". Nuneaton Town could move in or there could be lots of rugby games, etc etc. The world is ACL's oyster.

Actually they said Sisu should get out of Coventry.

Your forgetting that CCFC are contracted to play at the Ricoh until 2045.

Co-operation between Coventry Council and Warwickshire Council would probably prevent it happening anyway, as the Ricoh is an asset Warwickshire benefits from as well.

Even if it did happen, whilst I would except a move out of the city for on a temporary basis, I could not as a matter of principle support a team that has abandoned the city of its birth.