Well, Well.... (11 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

What exactly do you want the council to do? So many people criticise ACL without actually saying what they want.

I want them to tell us their plan! They have protected their investment in acl, ok. What now? Don't let sisu get any access to enough revenue to compete?? If that is the plan then CCC and acl may as well follow through with a winding up order now, what are they waiting for ? And because they are not I am utterly confused and as a fan distraught at the slow death of our sky blues

 

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[RoboCCFC90]

No he didn't - he found an article where the club was moaning about the rent - what a shock. That does not by itself mean the rent was too high.

And the article doesn't even say this, Robinson pointedly does not confirm such conversations.

So under that intellect do you think the club moaned at the amount of rent because they were paying to little? Use common sense my friend

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He said: "There are now at least 111 occasions when a paper has been submitted either as a matter of urgency or straight to full council from Cabinet on this topic and which, as a consequence, also means that it could not be called in for scrutiny."

There goes our 'democratic' council, skipping the scrutiny part, that's possibly the important component of democracy and they're making decisions, without any scrutiny. Tut tut.

 

[lordsummerisle]

They both need each other, both seem to be pursuing a course of Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

[CJparker]

I don't think my argument is worthless. You and other say that SISU want the rent decresed because they fucked up in the past - which they have there's no denying that. However, I post a story in the CET less than four months after the Ricoh was opened which shows that the PREVIOUS regime were also trying to renegotiate the rent.

So, is that a coincidence? You've said in the past that the rent is "fair". It's patently not.

As for making you ashamed. I am so pleased that my views are not the same as yours. Your the sort of fan who seems the demise of CCFC as "collateral damage" just as long as ACL get their money.

I pointed out your abuse, because it was abuse. Simply that.

You have made a leap of logic - again. Just because the previous regime wanted to reduce the rent (according to the article which we should not treat as gospel)- that doesn't mean the rent was OTT. Many organisations try to reduce their rent for their own benefit.

What you need to understand is that one way or another, CCFC has to pay back the council for the £20-£30m funding they invested as an emergency to get the Ricoh built. Either the club buys it (which will not happen at the moment thanks to SISU's antics) or the club pays a commercially fair rent. If you go to the private sector and demand much less in rent to pay back such a level of investment, it would not happen. If you expect to get a better deal from the council than the private sector, you are, by definition, expecting the council to subsizie the club.

I'm not bothered about ACL at all - I am just a realist who doesn't delude himself that the club are owed anything by anyone. It's the likes of Robinson and SISU who have made us financially insolvent, so stop blaming everyone else, it is embarrassing.

 

[hamil99]

With the key tenant, for whom the ground was specifically built, not paying the rent, I can see why they are struggling. CCFC is key to the ACL business plan (or was, before the re-financing).

The "leasing back" arrangement suited CCFC nicely when the council had to step in with millions of funding to get the ground opened. Now, predictably, the rent is "too high".

What too many people on here don't realise it that they are asking for a free ground - in reality, we have to pay for the Ricoh one way or another. We had a huge funding gap which the council breached. The purpose of the lease was to ensure the the council, via ACL, got paid back. Now you want to have your cake and eat it by asking for a £30m in ground funding and to pay £100k p/a to pay it back - that's clearly unrealistic, unless of course you think that the council has an obligation to subsidize CCFC.

I believe they do hav an obligation to the club, which in turn helps local businesses, jobs etc in the city. All goes hand in hand, take the club away and many will suffer, and not just the fans..

 

[Otis]

I want them to tell us their plan! They have protected their investment in acl, ok. What now? Don't let sisu get any access to enough revenue to compete?? If that is the plan then CCC and acl may as well follow through with a winding up order now, what are they waiting for ? And because they are not I am utterly confused and as a fan distraught at the slow death of our sky blues

Maybe internal wranglings within ACL/council, many of whose members are Sky Blue fans according to some.

 

[CJparker]

There goes our 'democratic' council, skipping the scrutiny part, that's possibly the important component of democracy and they're making decisions, without any scrutiny. Tut tut.

If in doubt, attack the council. Never mind that SISU's own antics are not exactly transparent.

 

[coundonskyblue]

I don't disagree with that Coundon, but my point is when they were moving into the Ricoh, ACL must have laid the contract out in front of the dweeb with rent figure in it, why not then pull ACL up say "Hey wait a Feckin second?!"

Also true that they have no right to complain, but the figure that ACL are charging the Sky Blues is to high, SISU should have highlighted when they bought the club but they were a mixture of naive, stupid, incompetent and distant... I place the blame at the wanker Onye Igwe...

I don't disagree with any of that. As I've said before I have no problem with the club trying to renegotiate, its the way they've done it that I have a problem with.

 

[hamil99]

By the way I in no way mean in my previous post the stadium should be given away, but a little help from the council would be nice....

 

[CJparker]

I believe they do hav an obligation to the club, which in turn helps local businesses, jobs etc in the city. All goes hand in hand, take the club away and many will suffer, and not just the fans..

I beg to differ - you are saying there that the taxpayer-funded council, in a time of harsh cuts from central government and council tax increases, should be subsidizing a club supposed to be funded by a Mayfair hedge fund. Labour, Tory or Lib Dem - nobody would support that.

The club has to be self-financing, end of story.

 

[CJparker]

By the way I in no way mean in my previous post the stadium should be given away, but a little help from the community would be nice....

I do agree insofar as infrastructure like the railway station and other general infrastructure which helps the city in general as well - but not direct subsidy

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don't disagree with any of that. As I've said before I have no problem with the club trying to renegotiate, its the way they've done it that I have a problem with.

That's right!!

Probably works when hedge funds go in and break up a company but when you are trying to negotiate by holding a gun to someone's head ..........

 

[CJparker]

So under that intellect do you think the club moaned at the amount of rent because they were paying to little? Use common sense my friend

No, clearly any tenant would always moan about their rent and try to reduce it - that doesn't prove it was "too high", that's just a fact of life. Use your brain my friend.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I don't disagree with any of that. As I've said before I have no problem with the club trying to renegotiate, its the way they've done it that I have a problem with.

Again like I eluded to with CJ the way SISU have negotiated a better deal for the rent isn't smart, ACL hold all the cards in that respect, but if it is true that CCFC under the previous regime tried to negotiate the rent also and ACL weren't budging it makes you wonder if SISU hadn't of dug there heels in and made a stand then would ACL continue to keep saying no re-negotiations as we don't know if this has kicked up in the last 2 years of SISU's reign or if they eluded to it previously but because of the incompetence of Onye Igwe I wouldn't be surprised if he never thought that was a problem..

 

[CJparker]

Again like I eluded to with CJ the way SISU have negotiated a better deal for the rent isn't smart, ACL hold all the cards in that respect, but if it is true that CCFC under the previous regime tried to negotiate the rent also and ACL weren't budging it makes you wonder if SISU hadn't of dug there heels in and made a stand then would ACL continue to keep saying no re-negotiations as we don't know if this has kicked up in the last 2 years of SISU's reign or if they eluded to it previously but because of the incompetence of Onye Igwe I wouldn't be surprised if he never thought that was a problem..

Robbo, please understand that Robinson supposedly moaning about the rent in 2005 is not proof by itself that it was OTT - moaning about the rent is what tenants do!

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

No, clearly any tenant would always moan about their rent and try to reduce it - that doesn't prove it was "too high", that's just a fact of life. Use your brain my friend.

Does the fact it is 6x higher than the average championship rent prove it is too high?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

No, clearly any tenant would always moan about their rent and try to reduce it - that doesn't prove it was "too high", that's just a fact of life. Use your brain my friend.

Mate I lived with my ex Missus for 2 years in a very nice and clean new coach house, which was around £550 rent a month, now if I had found a reason to complain about the rent it wouldn't be because I thought the current amount was acceptable but because for the worth of the house and because the amount of rent we were paying does not reflect the value we are paying.. Your thesis of any tenant would question it because it's rent and they will moan has no logic what's so ever

 

[Chipfat]

This all comes back to Sisu if the previous owners were asking for a reduction why has i taken Sisu 4 years to understand the same problem.. I tell you why they have never had any plan b or any idea what they would do if the premiership status was not gained. They are now crying over the companies lack of plan knowledge and understanding of the football business.

Do i think CCFC need a better rent deal, YES, do i support my club, YES, do i think the Council have took advantage of owners who are not football people , YES,but Sisu have 3 options sign,sell, or walk away. So no matter what side of the fence you stand or how smart you try to be that is the only 3 ways this situation will go...

 

[Bennets Afro]

If we bought the Higgs share in ACL, would we have to pay the same level of rent if any?

 

[coundonskyblue]

Again like I eluded to with CJ the way SISU have negotiated a better deal for the rent isn't smart, ACL hold all the cards in that respect, but if it is true that CCFC under the previous regime tried to negotiate the rent also and ACL weren't budging it makes you wonder if SISU hadn't of dug there heels in and made a stand then would ACL continue to keep saying no re-negotiations as we don't know if this has kicked up in the last 2 years of SISU's reign or if they eluded to it previously but because of the incompetence of Onye Igwe I wouldn't be surprised if he never thought that was a problem..

In that situation they should have come out publically and said 'We've made mistakes, its nobodys fault but ours, but we really could do with help from ACL'.

That I could support.

 

[hamil99]

I do agree insofar as infrastructure like the railway station and other general infrastructure which helps the city in general as well - but not direct subsidy

That's why I wrote my ladt post as I didn't make my self clear. I don't believe the council should directly subsidize sisu, but a 100% match day revenue, and 400 grand rent. Yes they shud, no dought in my mind. Council refusing match day revenue is in fact ridiculous as the people spending their money are only there for football.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I beg to differ - you are saying there that the taxpayer-funded council, in a time of harsh cuts from central government and council tax increases, should be subsidizing a club supposed to be funded by a Mayfair hedge fund. Labour, Tory or Lib Dem - nobody would support that.

The club has to be self-financing, end of story.

I actually agree with that sentiment, I don't think councils bail out football clubs, but they shouldn't bail out quangos like ACL either - they have! A waste of taxpayers' money.

However, how can CCFC be self-financing when we're paying 1.28m, and get nothing back in revenue streams? Yet you think the rent is fair? Contradictory pal.

This isn't really to with he owner in terms of turnover, we don't get enough fans up (and other revenue streams) there to be self-efficient, we really need to have a favourable rent agreement.

 

[hamil99]

Just by comparisons to other teams rent u can tell ours is OTT.. simples.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Robbo, please understand that Robinson supposedly moaning about the rent in 2005 is not proof by itself that it was OTT - moaning about the rent is what tenants do!

Only if the rent fee is too high CJ! You have to understand that any tenant as an example I just provided will not moan about rent if acceptable and fitting for the nature of the property, but they will moan if the rent fee (Example this of the rent fee CCFC has paid ACL) is x5 - x6 the amount of grounds in the Championship!

I have said it before that the Ricoh is a better equipped ground then any ground in the Championship and Ipswich Towns rent is £250,000 if I am not mistaken so £400,000 would be acceptable IMO, but not £1,200,000 that's outrageous and a disaster waiting to happen!

 

[torchomatic]

The break-even figure nearly 8 years ago was 23K a match. Says it all really.

 

[hamil99]

I actually agree with that sentiment, I don't think councils bail out football clubs, but they shouldn't bail out quangos like ACL either - they have! A waste of taxpayers' money.

However, how can CCFC be self-financing when we're paying 1.28m, and get nothing back in revenue streams? Yet you think the rent is fair? Contradictory pal.

This isn't really to with he owner in terms of turnover, we don't get enough fans up (and other revenue streams) there to be self-efficient, we really need to have a favourable rent agreement.

Fully agree with ur statement. Match day revenue and a lower rent are crucial if the club is to survive.

 

[CJparker]

Does the fact it is 6x higher than the average championship rent prove it is too high?

No. Because the rent is nothing to do with the Champ average, it is do with our own circumstances. A third party provided £30m in emergency external funding in exchange for the ownership and agreement on a rental agreement. In the private sector, £100k per month would be deemed perfectly fair. £100k p/a would seen you laughed out of the door.

So...no.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

In that situation they should have come out publically and said 'We've made mistakes, its nobodys fault but ours, but we really could do with help from ACL'.

That I could support.

True that Coundon and I think if ACL had been in a better situation financially (example as the one they are in now after being bailed out by CCC) they might have openly considered fresh discussions unfortunately ACL were in need of that money, SISU were being stubborn and unfortunately it was probably all but too late..

 

[torchomatic]

DAVID SPICER (Your Say, June 9) asked the question how much of the money, that the previous Labour administration lent to the Arena Company Ltd for the building of the Ricoh Arena, has been paid back.

I am pleased to inform him that every penny of the pounds 21 million has been paid back.

Labour had the vision to build not just a football stadium but a multi-use arena that is now putting Coventry firmly on the map as we saw a fortnight ago when nearly 40,000 people from all over the country, and indeed even further afield, descended on Coventry for the largest concert ever held in this city.

The downside to all of this is that while Labour would have lent the money out of our reserves, the Conservative administration decided to borrow the money.

Unfortunately, the Conservatives decided not to use the pounds 21 million to repay the loan so council tax payers will be paying the interest on the loan for the next 25 years.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

If we bought the Higgs share in ACL, would we have to pay the same level of rent if any?

Or to call it by it's more commonly known name 50% of the Councils stake in the Ricoh Arena, but to answer your rent question I would have no clue..

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

In that situation they should have come out publically and said 'We've made mistakes, its nobodys fault but ours, but we really could do with help from ACL'.

That I could support.

I respect that, it's people like CJ who grind me with not even acknowledging the rent was too high as it was

 

[torchomatic]

You told us the questions you wanted to put to Sky Blues chairman Geoffrey Robinson. Here are his answers ... Why don't you reduce ticket prices to pounds 10 and go out to schools, pubs and factories promoting the idea in a bid to fill the stadium? Why can't you give concessions for the unemployed?

ANSWER: We had a major promotion for the Crystal Palace match when we had the second highest attendance - nearly 25,000. We also run regular incentives for children (Kids For A Quid) and for Junior Sky Blues and we aim to encourage families in this way. Again we do special promotions with schools and the local universities and some companies. However, there is a general limitation to our promotions which arises from the terms on which we sell season tickets and from the understandable feelings of some of their holders. Within that constraint we shall continue to promote ticket sales to encourage youngsters and families in particular. Unemployment is now low and for most, thankfully, a transient problem not therefore really requiring special treatment.

2 Can you clarify the position regarding the income from the sale of drinks and food inside the Ricoh Arena? If the money does not go to the club then why doesn't it? Is the income from the club shop our's and who pays the stewards, bar staff and cleaners?


ANSWER: The Club does not benefit from the following streams of income:

l Stadium sponsorship

l Stand sponsorship

l Non-match day conference and room hire

l General catering on match days and non-match days

The income from these activities goes directly to Arena Coventry Limited (ACL) to pay off the costs of building the stadium. ACL is owned 50/50 by Coventry City Council and the Higgs Charity. The club has an option to buy the Charity's 50-per-cent, and it hopes to be able to exercise this option in the next few years. Meanwhile the club pays a rent covering services generally including cleaning, maintenance and utilities to enjoy our magnificent stadium. It is this rent that is currently the subject of re-negotiation between the club and the ACL shareholders (ie the Council and the Higgs Charity).

The club pays for:

l Security,

l Cleaning/stewarding on match days.

The Club receives income from:

l Club shop

l Boxes

l Gate money

l Shirt sponsorship

l Advertising boards

l Match day hospitality in the various dedicated lounges, eg Presidents, Ambassadors, Legends

3 Just how bad have things got to get on the pitch before Micky Adams is sacked? J. Mills

Is the Chairman going to wait until we are relegated before Adams and Heath are dismissed?

Surinder Kumar

ANSWER: We have just had our first back-to-back wins of the season and have moved up to 17th place. Not good enough - we aim to be in the top half this season. Micky is committed to working for this, and the Board is fully backing Micky.

4 How can you justify giving Mike McGinnity the title of Life President when all he has done is reduce the debt that he was partly responsible for accumulating by selling our best players, offering lower wages to new and existing players and signing over all CCFC's authority on the new stadium to the Arena Company?

ANSWER: Mike McGinnity was a dedicated chairman for nearly four years, and the Life Presidency was awarded to him in recognition of his services. Without Mike we might never have made it into the new stadium! Mike has loaned the club nearly pounds 500,000 interest-free and contributed previously to the building of the stadium.

5 Why hasn't the board come up with a three-year plan before and why can't the board put their hands in their own pockets?

Sam Brown

ANSWER: I have personally invested pounds 10million in the club on which I am taking no interest. Mike McGinnity, Sir Derek Higgs and I also contributed as a trio pounds 2million in cash to the club to make sure the new stadium was built; this money is not only unsecured but also attracts no interest. On top of that, no director takes a salary or expenses and no dividends have been paid since I've been on the board. I am working on a three-year plan to go up to the Premier League in 2007/08. Some initial announcements will be made early in the New Year.

6 What percentage of the shares are available for purchase by CCFC? What would be the cost and when does the option run out? Would a new CCFC share issue be a way of raising some capital?

Richard Peel

ANSWER: An essential part of our three-year plan for promotion will be to attract new capital into the club. I have several ideas and will be launching them next year. Here's hoping we'll get back-up for them!

7 Can you turn up the volume on the PA system at the Arena and play some better music when we score to get the crowd going? We need to improve the atmosphere.

Andrew Garratt

ANSWER: Can we see how much support there is for a change of music when we score? The great news is we are scoring and look at all those fantastic chances against Plymouth and Millwall more recently! The atmosphere when we have a good crowd is great - the acoustics are the best I've witnessed in our league!

8 How much rent does the club pay to play at the Arena and is it penal, restricting the expansion of the club?

Brian James

ANSWER: The rent the club is expected to pay is pounds 1million per annum - or approximately pounds 40,000 per game! This is too much while we're in the Championship, coming on top of the loss of naming rights, catering, stand sponsorship and conferences and affects our viability and ability to compete in a very tough League. We are hopeful that our partners - the Council and the Higgs Charity - will see this and come to a more equitable arrangement with us - at least till we get promotion! We are partners with the Council and to succeed we all have to succeed together

OUR MESSAGE: we continue to need above all the support of the fans. That can make all the difference - to the finances and even more important to the morale of the team!

 

[torchomatic]

So not just something made up byt the CET, CJ. RObinson again says they are negotiation and hope that ACL will help them to come to some arrangement.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It's all there and 45m pounds later we are in the same financial position but worse football position. Depressing