ACL £1m profit? (21 Viewers)

[CJparker]

Not what I asked-at the moment there is nobody else waiting with tens of millions of pounds ready to swoop and take the club off SISU. Their departure would lead to the club folding and needing to reform at a much, much lower level. This is not 'palatable' to me and I'm sure many other fans here.

Well we won't know about new investors until SISU leave.

For someone desperate for SISU to leave, you are being rather squeamish about supporting moves to make it happen.

Let's face it, there are no easy answers - but you said yourself how few clubs ever go bust, that makes me think that whatever happens CCFC will live on without SISU, hence my confidence

 

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[Grendel]

Wot your mental age?imp:

Ah that's one of the funniest things I've read in ages. I cracked a rib laughing so much.

You're such a cad.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well we won't know about new investors until SISU leave.

For someone desperate for SISU to leave, you are being rather squeamish about supporting moves to make it happen.

Let's face it, there are no easy answers - but you said yourself how few clubs ever go bust, that makes me think that whatever happens CCFC will live on without SISU, hence my confidence

I'm squeamish about moves which will directly jeapordise the club's survival.

 

[CJparker]

I'm squeamish about moves which will directly jeapordise the club's survival.

Me too...but surely the record of clubs (not) going to the wall gives you confidence all will be well in the end?

 

[hill83]

Me too...but surely the record of clubs (not) going to the wall gives you confidence all will be well in the end?

A genuine and massive no from me.

Although non of these are league clubs, a lot of clubs have gone out of business.

http://www.footiemap.com/defunct.php?co=england

 

[torchomatic]

It's not worth the risk, I don't think. Hoping isn't good enough.

I'm squeamish about moves which will directly jeapordise the club's survival.

 

[coundonskyblue]

It's not worth the risk, I don't think. Hoping isn't good enough.

By not having a business plan we have that risk anyway.

Unless Sisu get their act together we will be at the point of Admin soon enough.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Timeline
Dec 2002 ccfc convince cov council to build stadium, convinced this will revive fortunes of club who are massively in debt
Before stadium is built ccfc sell off income stream.
Aug 2005 ccfc move to new stadium. Unable to mount a significant promotion challenge.
Nov2007 on the brink of admin sell club to sisu. SIsu prepared tosuffer operating losses as they invest in the team and maintain a promotion challenge but will make money for their investors once sold on as a premiership club
July 2009 investment is off plan b to be established.
2012 still no plan b, but following relegation operation premiership is even less likely sisu resorts to bullying tactics to try to get hold of the Ricoh on the cheap. Out thought by the council unlikely to recoup their investment.

and still some on here think sisu have ccfc's interests at heart.

 

[CJparker]

It's not worth the risk, I don't think. Hoping isn't good enough.

There have been something like 50 administrations of football clubs since the last one in 1994, so the risk doesn't seem so bad to me

 

[Grendel]

There have been something like 50 administrations of football clubs since the last one in 1994, so the risk doesn't seem so bad to me

Of all the clubs sent to administration since points deductions came into force only 3 have improved their status. Four ceased to exist.

 

[CJparker]

Of all the clubs sent to administration since points deductions came into force only 3 have improved their status. Four ceased to exist.

I think it is a lot more than 3 - but either way, people should not go for the scare story of "no SISU = no CCFC" - just another excuse you are peddling to get people to lay off SISU

 

[coundonskyblue]

Of all the clubs sent to administration since points deductions came into force only 3 have improved their status. Four ceased to exist.

How do you define improve? Because I can think of loads.

 

[CJparker]

By the way, I do not advocate administration and very much doubt whether we will go into admin - so please don't start misquoting me agian

 

[coundonskyblue]

How do you define improve? Because I can think of loads.

Edit that, I just seen the bit about points deductions.

 

[hill83]

By the way, I hope we go into administration and very much hope we cease to exist - so please don't start misquoting me agian

(ten characters)

 

[torchomatic]

Similarly, there's the scare story that if SISU get half of the Ricoh then they will develop the land and ditch the Club. That's peddled quite often on here.

I think it is a lot more than 3 - but either way, people should not go for the scare story of "no SISU = no CCFC" - just another excuse you are peddling to get people to lay off SISU

 

[torchomatic]

Old news.

(ten characters)

 

[Jack Griffin]

Im going to help you out here Grendel and hazzard a guess on how the original arrangement for rent arrived !!!
Think back new stadium with a mortgage that had to be paid. The annual payments for the mortgage came to 1.2million. So that is possibly how that figure arrived. You have to remember ACL were a new venture which hadn't tapped into the other income streams yet and had no trading history.
I may be way off the mark and like i say its a guess.

Yeah, that's how I figured it & I'm sure posted that idea in the past a long time ago. Its not rocket science is it!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Me too...but surely the record of clubs (not) going to the wall gives you confidence all will be well in the end?

Has any club been evicted from its ground in recent memory? The only one I can think of that came close was Middlesbrough in the late 80s and that would've spelt bankruptcy for certain. We would not survive without the Ricoh to play in.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, that's how I figured it & I'm sure posted that idea in the past a long time ago. Its not rocket science is it!

This "rule" doesn't seem to apply to most other community owned grounds. So no it's not rocket science -- just greed.

 

[Jack Griffin]

SBT - as I have pointed out previously ACL have offered CCFC their share of the profits of the match day f&b profits from the joint venture IEC for free. Their share is 80% and is valued at around £100k. They have also offered to cross invoice the revenue to CCFC to help their FFP calculations. Fail to see how much extra the club wants. Also under the proposed deal the club would receive 900 car park spaces for free - revenue worth around £150k. So thats £250k for free and help with FFP - hardly the actions of an organisation that doesn't care about the football club.

Facts don't seem to matter to Grendel et al.. that sounds like everything Fisher asked for & more.. his position does not make sense. What's their game, it isn't cricket!

But that isn't what others were proposing though was it? CCFC should have 100% f+b revenues (your post appears to have it at 80%?) for free.

I presume the other 20% must belong to Compass & therefore not in the gift of ACL, its only about 20K anyway, whats that 1 to 2 months for the top earner or 1 player for 4 months at an average League One salary!

 

[Jack Griffin]

I don't have any masters - I am everybody's equal (not in the George Orwell sense)

Four legs good, two legs bad. Its best to keep it simple for the majority..

Damn, why are the chickens discontent now? More problems....

 

[Grendel]

I think it is a lot more than 3 - but either way, people should not go for the scare story of "no SISU = no CCFC" - just another excuse you are peddling to get people to lay off SISU

You are right its not 3 its one I apologise;
Wrexham were in league one now non league
Cambridge were in league two now non league
Rotherham were in league one now league two
Boston were in league two now I believe several tiers down
Luton were in league one and now non league
Stockport were league one and now non league
Chester, rushden and Darlington liquidated
Portsmouth premier league soon to be league two
Plymouth were league one now clinging to league status

Only Palace Leeds and Bournemouth have retained parity position

Only Southampton have seen improvement

So 4 have ceased to exist, 3 are in recovery mode and one with a billionaire backer has improved.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Swansea's administration in 2002 while in division three has slipped Grendel's mind, where are they nowdays, mmmmmm let me see, langushing in the middle of that poxy Premiership & winning cup finals.

Likewise Middlesbrough (1986), Ipswich(2002) & Charlton (1984) who are in situations as good as or better now as when they went into admin, in the interim years all 3 clubs spent time in the Premiership before slipping back. Mr G somehow doesn't count periods of higher league position between admin & today, as relevant to the argument... personally I would do so..

Funny I could have sworn he had a magnificent memory, not very good at fact finding though.

Anyway, argument disproved & I have barely started on the long list...

Charlton 1984
Middlesbrough 1986
Tranmere 1987
Newport County 1989
Walsall 1990
Northampton 1992
Kettering 1992
Aldershot 1992
Maidstone 1992
Hartlepool 1994
Barnet 1994
Exeter 1994, 2003
Gillingham 1995
Doncaster 1997
Millwall 1997
Bournemouth 1997, 2008
Darlington 1997, 2009
Chester 1998, 2009
Hereford 1998
Portsmouth 1999, 2010
Crystal Palace 1999, 2010
Oxford Utd 1999
Barrow 1999
Swindon 2000, 2002
Scarborough 2000
Hull 2001
QPR 2001
Chesterfield 2001
Leicester 2002
Barnsley 2002
Carlisle 2002
Notts County 2002
Bury 2002
Bradford 2002
Port Vale 2002
Lincoln City 2002
Swansea City 2002
York 2002
Halifax Town 2002, 2008
Derby 2003
Ipswich 2003
Huddersfield 2003
Oldham 2003
MK Dons 2003
Wimbledon 2003
Wrexham 2004
Cambridge 2005
Crawley Town 2006
Rotherham 2006, 2008
Leeds United 2007
Boston United 2007
Southampton 2008
Luton 2008
Stockport 2009
Salisbury 2009

 

[dongonzalos]

That list is a bit 50 50 in terms of better or worse off than us.

Considering we have never gone into admin!

 

[torchomatic]

As I keep saying, I don't want to risk it. And we don't have to.

 

[Stafford_SkBlue]

Back to the thread - I think the year end for their financial year was before the Olympics.
My suggestion: They should invest in a better playing surface such as Desso Grassmaster seen at most Premier, Wembley and top rugby grounds and one in our league MK Dons & Doncaster. The investment should help to attract other Rugby and Football matches. Essential if trying to attract Rugby 2015 World Cup.

Anyone else thought MK Arena (of the 5,000 who went) was a top ground - from the concourse you can view the pitch - with their upper tier (built but not opened yet) - 30,000, the stadium can also accommodate another tier over the upper without altering the roof which would make it 40,000 capacity. same designer as the Emirates.

 

[Grendel]

Swansea's administration in 2002 while in division three has slipped Grendel's mind, where are they nowdays, mmmmmm let me see, langushing in the middle of that poxy Premiership & winning cup finals.

Likewise Middlesbrough (1986), Ipswich(2002) & Charlton (1984) who are in situations as good as or better now as when they went into admin, in the interim years all 3 clubs spent time in the Premiership before slipping back. Mr G somehow doesn't count periods of higher league position between admin & today, as relevant to the argument... personally I would do so..

Funny I could have sworn he had a magnificent memory, not very good at fact finding though.

Anyway, argument disproved & I have barely started on the long list...

Sorry but if you bother to read the initial point it's post points reduction. In 2004 the football league concluded it was far too easy to hop in and out of administration

This gas worked as it clearly hampered fortunes and restricted numbers it

I await your apology

The evidence clearly shows administration is a potential disaster for the club and should be avoided at all costs.

 

[Grendel]

That list is a bit 50 50 in terms of better or worse off than us.

Considering we have never gone into admin!

The list is not relevant. We need to look at the impact post 2004 when points penalties came into force in addition to other restrictions on coming out of administration.

It was deliberately designed to stop clubs just wiping debts and starting again the next day. The Leicester debacle was the tipping point.

So I repeat since that introduction one club has improved its league status the majority have seen significant decline.

 

[dongonzalos]

The list is not relevant. We need to look at the impact post 2004 when points penalties came into force in addition to other restrictions on coming out of administration.

It was deliberately designed to stop clubs just wiping debts and starting again the next day. The Leicester debacle was the tipping point.

So I repeat since that introduction one club has improved its league status the majority have seen significant decline.

Had not read the original post read the reply

 

[Jack Griffin]

The list is not relevant. We need to look at the impact post 2004 when points penalties came into force in addition to other restrictions on coming out of administration.

It was deliberately designed to stop clubs just wiping debts and starting again the next day. The Leicester debacle was the tipping point.

So I repeat since that introduction one club has improved its league status the majority have seen significant decline.

Your boundary is arbitrary & fixed to prove your point, with the right backing & responsible management it isn't such a bad thing for CCFC, it is for SISU but they dug the hole they're in starting off from the 6ft deep one they clambered into in the first place (dug by Byan 'give it a punt' Richardson etc.)... they mis managed the club into this position, they have only been bad for the club, what is your solution build up even more debt, thats a fine idea.. and one which will lead to an even worse crash in the future.. why do you not want the club to be put on a sustainable footing?

 

[Sick Boy]

There is an inherent belief amongst our support that administration = a takeover by a billionaire, promotions and success.

We are far more likely to go the opposite directions and further slip down the leagues.

 

[Jack Griffin]

There is an inherent belief amongst our support that administration = a takeover by a billionaire, promotions and success.

We are far more likely to go the opposite directions and further slip down the leagues.

There is a belief that carrying on as we are is OK, it is just kicking the can down the road, ignoring the cliff were're abut to fall over. Madness!

 

[torchomatic]

Using the same analogy; you, CJ and others want to jump off the cliff and HOPE that the rucksack on your back is actually a parachute.

There is a belief that carrying on as we are is OK, it is just kicking the can down the road, ignoring the cliff were're abut to fall over. Madness!

 

[Sick Boy]

There is a belief that carrying on as we are is OK, it is just kicking the can down the road, ignoring the cliff were're abut to fall over. Madness!

I am not sure anyone here thinks the current situation is ok, whatever side of the current debates they are on?

If we were to be liquidated, there is no guarantee anyone would come forward and buy the club. Some claim that we are simply too big to go out of business, which I do not agree with at all. Besides, I thought we were known as an innovative club? The first all-seater stadium, the first to have shirt sponsers etc etc...do you see where this is going?