court papers explained (2 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Unlike the published rants of PWKH or the ACL propaganda issued by London PR firm Webber Shandwick?

All sides have put forward their own views at various stages and all have been reported.

Propaganda like:

Rent reduced by £900k.

All F+B revenues cross invoiced to CCFC.

CCFC to get ACL's share of F+B profits.

Arrears reduced to £600k, escrow reduced to £200k.

Before anyone bleats about 'average rent', it is a) the owners' fault we're in this division and b) the proposed figure of £400k is less than Walsall pay to use the Bescot; their higher league position, exclusive of points deduction, shows that it need not preclude the club from success.

 

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[sky blue john]

Sure, if ACL had submitted documents slating the owners you'd be salivating.

What maybe like you have since alleged scoop ?

 

[wingy]

Unlike the published rants of PWKH or the ACL propaganda issued by London PR fiWell rm Webber Shandwick?

All sides have put forward their own views at various stages and all have been reported.

well they have had to use their own means on Limited occasions as I dont think Ive heard the CWR lot look at this from anywhere other than SISUS viewpoint ever

 

[Grendel]

What maybe like you have since alleged scoop ?

I'm saying nothing lets see what the courts say shall we?

 

[sky blue john]

I'm saying nothing lets see what the courts say shall we?

Agreed its out of our control anyway.

 

[RPHunt]

Unlike the published rants of PWKH or the ACL propaganda issued by London PR firm Webber Shandwick?

All sides have put forward their own views at various stages and all have been reported.

Reported yes, but not put forward to justify a judicial review.

 

[sky blue john]

I wonder if Sisu use balloon gate as part of their evidence !!!

 

[tisza]

This so-called distressed debt. Has there ever been any claim that the ACL weren't making their loan payments to the Yorkshire Bank?

 

[DaleM]

So lets get this straight.
SISU screwed ACL over by not paying the rent.
Then they were going to go to the bank and purchase ACL's mortgage at a reduced rate.

It would be like me refusing to pay rent on a house I lived in ,refusing to move out then when the landlord couldn't afford me not paying anymore getting the house for a knock down price from the bank.

I would love to know how this is legal. Have any precedents ever been set ?

These people all seem like a bunch of charlatans who will do anything to turn a quick buck .
Does anyone honestly think that if they do manage to get half the stadium that they will invest anything in the football club. We are in the worst position that I can ever remember

 

[chiefdave]

Not sure why people have a problem with the CT publishing this, it's clear it's from SISU side as it's papers that have lodged. It also says the council were asked to respond to the points raised and didn't.

Either SISU seriously think they have a case or it's a tactic to delay things / put off other buyers. If SISU do think they have a case then we need to wait and see where things go, what evidence SISU can give to back this up and what response the council give. Reading it, even if it's partially true, the council could have problems.

Before last week I would have said the council were being truthful but since it came out that it had come from taxpayer money when they said it hadn't, it was a bailout when they said it wasn't and there was no valualtion done prior to the loan being given I'm having my doubts about the councils role in all this. I think we're all quick to blame SISU for everything because they have made so many major mistakes but it does mean they are totally wrong about everything and maybe having SISU here has been good for the council as it's kept the blame away from them.

What happens if Hoff and the American takeover and there's still issues with ACL / Higgs / Council?

 

[Godiva]

So lets get this straight.
SISU screwed ACL over by not paying the rent.
Then they were going to go to the bank and purchase ACL's mortgage at a reduced rate.

It would be like me refusing to pay rent on a house I lived in ,refusing to move out then when the landlord couldn't afford me not paying anymore getting the house for a knock down price from the bank.

I would love to know how this is legal. Have any precedents ever been set ?

These people all seem like a bunch of charlatans who will do anything to turn a quick buck .
Does anyone honestly think that if they do manage to get half the stadium that they will invest anything in the football club. We are in the worst position that I can ever remember

We have known this for a long time now - nothing new. I think OSB was first to figure this out 6-7 months ago.

The news is that sisu claim this was a joint plan with CCC/ACL.
In which case 'The Charlatans' include quite a few more than just sisu.

And why wouldn't it be legal?
Immoral no doubt, but isn't that just capitalism in its purest form?

 

[DaleM]

We have known this for a long time now - nothing new. I think OSB was first to figure this out 6-7 months ago.

The news is that sisu claim this was a joint plan with CCC/ACL.
In which case 'The Charlatans' include quite a few more than just sisu.

And why wouldn't it be legal?
Immoral no doubt, but isn't that just capitalism in its purest form?

I agree very very immoral. If it is legal then the law in indeed an ass.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

This actually makes me laugh, especially the bit when all those who were adament it is and was 1000% SISU fault attempt to pathetically back pedal on some statements made on this forum.

There are a few on here that have said all along that ACL and CCC have an element of blame and the truth will come out . The same people also recognised that SISU are also to blame but instead of bleating they looked at the whole picture.

 

[Jack Griffin]

didnt chris coleman say we had the most left footed players he has ever seen in one club ? :thinking about::thinking about:

If only their names were Bale, Giggs, Silva, Evra & Messi.

 

[oldskyblue58]

on a personal note .......

Under the comments there is a contributor called "oldskyblue" .......... just want to make it clear that poster is nothing at all to do with me. I do not contribute to the CT forum and never have.

 

[I'mARealWizard]

Let's suppose that SISU's claims are all true.

Effectively SISU are saying "we colluded with a bank creditor to default on a loan in order to buy the loan back cheaply from the bank". First, if true, and if this had actually happened, then surely the bank would have had legal recourse to the courts. I am not a lawyer but I would be surprised if a collusive deal between ACL and SISU to default on the bank loan would have been legal.

How on earth SISU expect this to stand up in court, goodness only knows. "We made a (possibly illegal) verbal agreement with ACL that they later reneged on" - I don't think that is going to look good in court.

Further, even if that was the plan and it was in fact legal, why on earth would the bank merrily sell the loan to SISU at a discounted rate. Surely the bank would have put ACL into administration and then gone after SISU for non-payment of rent. In other words, the collusive agreement was flawed in conception even if it was not actually illegal as it presumed extreme stupidity on behalf of the bank.

All of the above is giving SISU the benefit of the doubt that its claims are true. Possibly the claims are true. Nevertheless, I don't think that that is going to be enough to get a judicial review.

In the words of Judge Judy 'You have to come to court with "clean hands"...'

 

[lordsummerisle]

on a personal note .......

Under the comments there is a contributor called "oldskyblue" .......... just want to make it clear that poster is nothing at all to do with me. I do not contribute to the CT forum and never have.

After reading the comments on there I was going to say that it's as prone to hysterical overreaction and people not actually reading what they are commenting on as it is on here.


Then I realised that it's because it's the same hysterial, overreactors lacking comprehension skills that post on here, which explained it.

 

[smouch1975]

on a personal note .......

OSB58. I have a question for you. One I would hope you to ponder and reply to at some point.

I have read your comments and analysis of goings on for over a year. I have found your thoughts to be most informative and, I have on almost every single occasion agreed with your comments in total.

Surely SISU read these pages, how/why? Would they persist in their actions if you have as seems highly likely, trumped and exposed their next move, weeks before they make it.

As, already stated, I believe you are on the money. So, are they dumb?, hope a judge can't drive goggle. Or could it possibly be that you/we are way off the mark and more nefarious acts are still a foot?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

hope a judge can't drive goggle.

We're back on Seppala's appearance again are we

 

[oldskyblue58]

Thanks for the kind words smouch

It is hard to think that there is any other motive to SISU's action than money. They need to maximise any return they can get and the only way they do that is to get their hands on assets to sell. It is all about financial brinksmanship i think. Who has the deeper pockets and the greater will to fight.

These people are not stupid and you do not spend 100's of thousands on top PR firms, Insolvency guys, barristers, lawyers etc with no purpose to it. One thing they are not doing it for is the love of the club.

 

[torchomatic]

But no one knows and we will never know. The hysterical have always suggested that if the Club - and I'm talking about CCFC - got half the stadium then they would close down Coventry City, etc etc. That scenario only existed in the feverish imaginations of posters on here. Some even wrote to the Council saying "don't let the football club I support get hold of the one thing that will guarantee it's future", all because of their hate of the owners.

We are in the worst position because many people and organisations including Richardson, McGinnity, SISU and ACL have let the club down and only thought about themselves. And they've been given a helping hand by quite a few City fans along the way.

Does anyone honestly think that if they do manage to get half the stadium that they will invest anything in the football club. We are in the worst position that I can ever remember

 

[sky blue john]

But no one knows and we will never know. The hysterical have always suggested that if the Club - and I'm talking about CCFC - got half the stadium then they would close down Coventry City, etc etc. That scenario only existed in the feverish imaginations of posters on here. Some even wrote to the Council saying "don't let the football club I support get hold of the one thing that will guarantee it's future", all because of their hate of the owners.

We are in the worst position because many people and organisations including Richardson, McGinnity, SISU and ACL have let the club down and only thought about themselves. And they've been given a helping hand by quite a few City fans along the way.

Torch what a load of rubbish you are now blaming ccfc fans now for the state the club is in.
I personally want the stadium and club unified but would only want the current owners to have it if it was tied to covenants stopping them from ever splitting it from the club or placing massive mortgages against it.
Somehow i don't think Sisu would accept that kind of deal !!!!!!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

This could suggest the rent strike was part of the plan.

[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Of course it was Godiva.....ACL were deliberately letting SISU put them out of business over the last 12 months, then attempt to put SISU into Administration(Which SISU did themselves) and CCC, have them to bail them out over mortgage repayments.....Yes that's the answer Godiva...you f**king Muppet!!!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Torch what a load of rubbish you are now blaming ccfc fans now for the state the club is in.

Some of the loudest shouters for SISu are now the loudest against.

Some of the loudest shouters for Haskell don't want to find out anything about him.

There's a lot of hero worship obsession that turns to hate. None of us really know the ins and outs but we let some get away with murder for years because we insist on taking sides.

 

[James Smith]

Let's suppose that SISU's claims are all true.

Effectively SISU are saying "we colluded with a bank creditor to default on a loan in order to buy the loan back cheaply from the bank". First, if true, and if this had actually happened, then surely the bank would have had legal recourse to the courts. I am not a lawyer but I would be surprised if a collusive deal between ACL and SISU to default on the bank loan would have been legal.

How on earth SISU expect this to stand up in court, goodness only knows. "We made a (possibly illegal) verbal agreement with ACL that they later reneged on" - I don't think that is going to look good in court.

Further, even if that was the plan and it was in fact legal, why on earth would the bank merrily sell the loan to SISU at a discounted rate. Surely the bank would have put ACL into administration and then gone after SISU for non-payment of rent. In other words, the collusive agreement was flawed in conception even if it was not actually illegal as it presumed extreme stupidity on behalf of the bank.

All of the above is giving SISU the benefit of the doubt that its claims are true. Possibly the claims are true. Nevertheless, I don't think that that is going to be enough to get a judicial review.

I thought all ACL had to do was say:

No there were still major points needing to be clarified. Any handshakes – and not everybody shook hands - were purely as a “goodbye” gesture and not as a sign of “deal agreement”

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

But no one knows and we will never know. The hysterical have always suggested that if the Club - and I'm talking about CCFC - got half the stadium then they would close down Coventry City, etc etc. That scenario only existed in the feverish imaginations of posters on here. Some even wrote to the Council saying "don't let the football club I support get hold of the one thing that will guarantee it's future", all because of their hate of the owners.

We are in the worst position because many people and organisations including Richardson, McGinnity, SISU and ACL have let the club down and only thought about themselves. And they've been given a helping hand by quite a few City fans along the way.

6 years of imho no, or very little financial backing in playing staff.(No I'm not going through why I think SISU pay f**k all for players) Already done that over 3-4 posts earlier.If by "Given a helping hand" means supporters like me only going to away games.Then tough shit mate!!!
Accusations from a man who has said on this very forum that..."One of the reasons I go to home games is because my father pays for the car park otherwise I wouldn't bother going."
SISU have reneged on buying the stadium on three different occasions Reneged on paying the rent, reneged on the "Header"............................Now do I think supporters are within their rights to think that the only thing on SISU's agenda is get the Arena for next to nothing, and Yes!!! I'm one of those who think that if they succeed in getting what they want, CCFC will be "Dead and Buried within 6 months":facepalm:

 

[torchomatic]

No,not blaming fans. Just saying some were short sighted in writing to Mutton begging him not sell to the Club.

Covenants are a great idea, but again not one that those opposed to CCFC a slice of the Ricoh have mentioned. They are just blindly against it.

Torch what a load of rubbish you are now blaming ccfc fans now for the state the club is in.
I personally want the stadium and club unified but would only want the current owners to have it if it was tied to covenants stopping them from ever splitting it from the club or placing massive mortgages against it.
Somehow i don't think Sisu would accept that kind of deal !!!!!!

 

[torchomatic]

Rubbish. Find the quote or fuck off.

Accusations from a man who has said on this very forum that..."One of the reasons I go to home games is because my father pays for the car park otherwise I wouldn't bother going."
SISU have reneged on buying the stadium on three different occasions Reneged on paying the rent, reneged on the "Header".........................

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Poole and Turner on why they're not keen on investigative journalism:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...aph-quiz-city-s-administrator-92746-33260475/

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You were talking to I think Grenduffy and another poster at the time last year cba looking back over the last 12 months..but you definately said it mate, and No I won't Fuck off!!!:slap:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No,not blaming fans. Just saying some were short sighted in writing to Mutton begging him not sell to the Club.

Covenants are a great idea, but again not one that those opposed to CCFC a slice of the Ricoh have mentioned. They are just blindly against it.

You forget one who called on ACL to 'press on with the winding up order' :facepalm:

 

[torchomatic]

Think?! No, I did not. If anything I get accused of going whatever. Find the fucking quote.

You were talking to I think Grenduffy and another poster at the time last year cba looking back over the last 12 months..but you definately said it mate, and No I won't Fuck off!!!:slap:

 

[I'mARealWizard]

Some of the loudest shouters for SISu are now the loudest against.

Some of the loudest shouters for Haskell don't want to find out anything about him.

You sure can deduce a lot and make numerous sweeping statements after only being here for less than one month

 

[ajsccfc]

In his defence, you could sum up a lot of this place by picking any thread that's gone over about 10 replies.

 

[Godiva]

Of course it was Godiva.....ACL were deliberately letting SISU put them out of business over the last 12 months, then attempt to put SISU into Administration(Which SISU did themselves) and CCC, have them to bail them out over mortgage repayments.....Yes that's the answer Godiva...you f**king Muppet!!!

I can't read anywhere that the documents suggest that the plan was to put ACL out of business. I understand the plan was to distress the mortgage so Yorkshire Bank would sell the mortgage to sisu for £2m-£5m. I think the mortgage was around £16m-£18m so if the plan had gone through ACL would be cutting their debt by a factor of 4 ... or down by 75%.
That would give ACL room to lower the rent to what ccfc want.

But as we know Yorkshire Bank wouldn't play ball and CCC stepped in and bought the mortgage for £14m.

Again - the documents handed to the court is sisu's version. But I would think they know a judge would ask for some kind of evidence, so I expect they have more than just 'he said, they said ...'.

Edit: Had ACL been able to cut the mortgage to £5m it would also justify Higgs valuation on their shares and it would be a sound (value for money) investment for the club.