covkid69
Well-Known Member
nice but dim tim speaks out!!!!
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ews/coventry-city-chief-executive-tim-4010343
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...ews/coventry-city-chief-executive-tim-4010343
tim speaks.....bullshit as usual (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter covkid69
- Start date
grego_gee
New Member
You simply can't ask these types of questions by text, you get spin in response that you are unable to question and unable to point out the inaccuracies,fallacies and misrepresentations. I'm sure the telegraphs heart was in the right place but they needed more thought into the questions and they needed to be asked in person/over the phone where they can follow up. They've just given Fisher another opportunity to misrepresent the situation and doesn't question him on the damage that moving away for 3 years+ will cause.
SkyBlueHomer
New Member
I guess a sensible/interllectual opinion is a bit much to expect from you.
If you are going to start a thread go through the points raised not just abuse people just for the sake of it
If you are going to start a thread go through the points raised not just abuse people just for the sake of it
John_Silletts_Nose
Well-Known Member
From the article, I hope this is a quote by Tim Fisher,
"Be clear, it was ACL and the council that subjected the club to an administration order which created huge financial stress for the club."
True that ACL subjected CCFC Ltd to an administration order but, be clear, it was CCFC Ltd that put themselves into administration.
He also says that the "club" was subjected to the administration order so he is saying that CCFC Ltd is the football club rather than CCFC Holdings Ltd.
"Be clear, it was ACL and the council that subjected the club to an administration order which created huge financial stress for the club."
True that ACL subjected CCFC Ltd to an administration order but, be clear, it was CCFC Ltd that put themselves into administration.
He also says that the "club" was subjected to the administration order so he is saying that CCFC Ltd is the football club rather than CCFC Holdings Ltd.
Sky Blues
Active Member
Tim Fisher: "A stadium owned by the club. That not only means revenue but also that we can realise our vision of being a true community club. We play 23 league games at our stadium but the football club should be at the heart of the local community 365 days a year.
"That means training ground, community work and our administrative office too."
So are we moving to Ryton or selling that off to fund this move?
TF: "The transfer embargo will be lifted once the administration situation is resolved because Sisu will then be in a position to sign-off the accounts."
Was the club in administration when the embargo was imposed this year? Or last year? Or the year before?
TF: "There is old, aged debt that was on the balance sheet at the time of acquisition. This debt is owed to Sky Blue Sports & Leisure."
Didn't you say last year that the club was debt free?
"That means training ground, community work and our administrative office too."
So are we moving to Ryton or selling that off to fund this move?
TF: "The transfer embargo will be lifted once the administration situation is resolved because Sisu will then be in a position to sign-off the accounts."
Was the club in administration when the embargo was imposed this year? Or last year? Or the year before?
TF: "There is old, aged debt that was on the balance sheet at the time of acquisition. This debt is owed to Sky Blue Sports & Leisure."
Didn't you say last year that the club was debt free?
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italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Throw your anger at those that are destroying the club rather than those that are making an effort.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
The only thing I get from his answers is that ACL are not entirely blameless.
We need the facts on exactly what was proposed by ACL including service charges and items like rates etc.
ACL is financed by the public purse so this information should be available.
I keep going round in circles with who to blame because I have not got the full facts.
We need the facts on exactly what was proposed by ACL including service charges and items like rates etc.
ACL is financed by the public purse so this information should be available.
I keep going round in circles with who to blame because I have not got the full facts.
CovLis86
Well-Known Member
I had to top reading half way through. I'm literally too furious. Point 3 - sisu put their own company into administration. Point 4 - they claimed that they cleared the debt... Yet suddenly when the books are out, they haven't cleared a single penny.
I am getting more and more terrified these fkn jokers will be in charge of our club, or whatever is left of it.
I am getting more and more terrified these fkn jokers will be in charge of our club, or whatever is left of it.
Bennets Afro
Well-Known Member
SISU seem to be pretty confident that when we come out the other side of administration that they will be in charge still
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
he lost me at the point of they came up with a debt free deal for acl. Probably just like ccfc debt free !!!!!!!!!!!!
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
is it ALL bullshit though? not really
way i see it he is right about council being dicks and sabotagging a similiar move for sisu that PH4 would like to take
he is right about council coming in to help ACL when they had no right
and he is right about them refusing to put a good deal on the table that will how ccfc become viable
tbh if i felt the stadium would be in a good location i probably wouldnt mind so much but i am sure they will bang it on outskirts and it will only be in coventry to the letter of the law
the council have shafted CCFC just as much as sisu, we should not forget that
way i see it he is right about council being dicks and sabotagging a similiar move for sisu that PH4 would like to take
he is right about council coming in to help ACL when they had no right
and he is right about them refusing to put a good deal on the table that will how ccfc become viable
tbh if i felt the stadium would be in a good location i probably wouldnt mind so much but i am sure they will bang it on outskirts and it will only be in coventry to the letter of the law
the council have shafted CCFC just as much as sisu, we should not forget that
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
What do you expect after all that bullshitting fuckwit has put us through? It's not abuse for the sake of it; it's abuse because we're very, very pissed off!
simple_simon
New Member
And what the feck have you done?
Total bollocks.
grego_gee
New Member
Well turn your abuse on the F'ing council then!
TF even says they will get the full £1.2 m for LAST year!
Eight years at £1.2m! that's 9.6 million FFS!
OPEN YOUR EYES!
imp:
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Well turn your abuse on the F'ing council then!
TF even says they will get the full £1.2 m for LAST year!
Eight years at £1.2m! that's 9.6 million FFS!
OPEN YOUR EYES!
Don't be so pathetic. They've been angels by comparison with SISU. Try opening your eyes for once!
Well turn your abuse on the F'ing council then!
TF even says they will get the full £1.2 m for LAST year!
Eight years at £1.2m! that's 9.6 million FFS!
OPEN YOUR EYES!
Tim Fisher is a liar, there is no way ACL get the amount they were owed for last year, unless SISU's intention is to buy back limited by offering over 70 million for it.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
He's lying about the 10k a game 'rent'. its well document that those are matchday costs yet some morons will still believe him.
grego_gee
New Member
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
That's bollocks..
grego_gee
New Member
Have they really?
did the council sign (and pay for) King, McGoldrick & Clark?
or what else did they do?
I must have missed something!
imp:
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Can we not all just agree that SISU, ACL & the council are all total cunts & have done with it....
....I hate them all...
....but even my hatred of all these suited bull-shitters is becoming jaded....
.....why don't they all just fuck right off so we don't have to bore each other to death with all this shit any longer.......football used to be fun.....
....I hate them all...
....but even my hatred of all these suited bull-shitters is becoming jaded....
.....why don't they all just fuck right off so we don't have to bore each other to death with all this shit any longer.......football used to be fun.....
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I was having a conversation with someone yesterday (a saints fan, happy they didn't get stuck with SISU) and he did ask me was there any actual evidence that what SISU say is false and really there isn't a great deal. You get one side saying something one day and then the other side saying no that's not right - how do we really know who is telling the truth? If, and it's a huge if, the actions of the council / ACL are as in this article then a lot of the blame has to be placed on them.
I said on here a couple of weeks ago when ACL were saying we weren't locked out of the stadium why didn't they call SISUs bluff and make a statement that whoever the FL deems to be in charge they will allow CCFC to continue to play at the Ricoh on the same terms as the last 3 matches of last season until a new deal is agreed, this article (again if true) shows why, because they won't offer SISU that deal.
One question really. If, as we all suspect, Tim is in fantasy land the surely some of this must be provable, couldn't the council or ACL take him to court for deformation or something similar?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
<p>
Ccfc, as ITS NOT RENT it would be payable regardless. Its a cost of sale, nothing else. Why are you defending lies?
Ccfc, as ITS NOT RENT it would be payable regardless. Its a cost of sale, nothing else. Why are you defending lies?
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Based on his previous statements and promises, that surely has to be viewed with huge doubt
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Jim
Well-Known Member
A lot of what Fisher says seems to be at odds with the facts presented by ACL just before the first admin court case when SISU his behind legal terminology.
To be honest, I'm inclined to believe ACL far more than Fisher and SISU, who have a track record, of lies, subterfuge and deception.
And before people cry why do you support ACL and not the club, I feel there needs to be a distinction here. To me the club is the team, manager and support staff. Tim Fisher, the board and SISU are another entity entirely and it is them is disagree with.
Whilst ACL have probably overcharged us in the last couple of years, it has been proven (OSB58 I think) that the £1.2m was perfectly reasonable given the interest on the stadium mortgage at the start. ACL probably should have offered a reduction in recent years once additional revenue streams came in but they were under no obligation to do so. And quite frankly SISU and the board could have negotiated a reduction in good faith three years ago.
Instead they have embarked on a disgraceful campaign to bully ACL into submission. Professional and stakeholder relationships scattered to the four winds.
The council were perfectly in their rights to purchase the mortgage, as they are simply supporting a company in which they are a consortium member. The cash has no effect on public budget as it comes from capital expenditure and actually generates increased income.
I'm tired of the garbage his guy talks and I want my club run by owners and a board that are looking to run a professionally run club we can look up to.
SISU OUT
NOT ONE PENNY MORE
To be honest, I'm inclined to believe ACL far more than Fisher and SISU, who have a track record, of lies, subterfuge and deception.
And before people cry why do you support ACL and not the club, I feel there needs to be a distinction here. To me the club is the team, manager and support staff. Tim Fisher, the board and SISU are another entity entirely and it is them is disagree with.
Whilst ACL have probably overcharged us in the last couple of years, it has been proven (OSB58 I think) that the £1.2m was perfectly reasonable given the interest on the stadium mortgage at the start. ACL probably should have offered a reduction in recent years once additional revenue streams came in but they were under no obligation to do so. And quite frankly SISU and the board could have negotiated a reduction in good faith three years ago.
Instead they have embarked on a disgraceful campaign to bully ACL into submission. Professional and stakeholder relationships scattered to the four winds.
The council were perfectly in their rights to purchase the mortgage, as they are simply supporting a company in which they are a consortium member. The cash has no effect on public budget as it comes from capital expenditure and actually generates increased income.
I'm tired of the garbage his guy talks and I want my club run by owners and a board that are looking to run a professionally run club we can look up to.
SISU OUT
NOT ONE PENNY MORE
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
usual spin, and cant be bothered to reply in detail
- How is it TF is running the club as we all know the Golden share is in ccfc ltd?
- season ticket sales to be announced, good luck with that going to be a big disappointment to you TF i think
- very close to the city isnt in the city
- Interesting on CWR this morning guy from Oxford supporters trust said Oxford pay £600k a year lease/licence in League 2 for 12500 capacity stadium and do not get the F&B's (their stadium cost £15m in 2001)
- seriously the cost of phones etc kept us from being viable????
- the request for three year deal made at end of January 2013, in TF's own words they had a plan to leave in December 2012, hardly negotiating in good faith
- there was a lease with 42 years left on it why would any landlord say ok just go do your own thing ?
- reinvest what back in the team? after paying off loans, the other running expenses, the wages based on a smaller FFP figure, interest to ARVO, return for investors, losses for the 3 years playing away from Coventry there wont be much left
- Actually the huge financial stress was the result mainly of 5 years of mis control and management. No not absolving ACL but lets be clear they do not run the club and certainly do not form the majority of the 30m losses to 31/05/11
- the ACL administration was withdrawn TF it was ARVO who put ccfc ltd in to administration - it is all in the administrators report if you care to read it
- Only way the club breaks even is to reduce costs to match income...... you know things like wages or interest paid to ARVO....... but income is about to nose dive for 3 years at least..... harder to finance the players on the pitch if break even is the target surely?
- lets be clear we were under transfer embargo before we went in to administration. You could have filed accounts July 2012 had you used a different strategy
- there was a deal on offer 29/01/13 (better than Oxfords it would seem) but SISU turned it down
- why is there old debt on the balance sheet when the takeover discounted that debt by 35m?
- did SBS&L actually ever pay out the old debt? No so why is it owed that money ?
- the debt hasnt been proven TF it is just the figure you have told the administrator.
- the 500K was actually grant money put to one side in an account that the club did not have rights to draw down but was legally required to top up.
- The £800k is not rent though is it Tim it is also the service charge for running the stadium usage by CCFC (light heat undersol heating repairs staffing of hospitality etc etc etc)
- what was the offer that was so generous - seems that the offer came from ACL (which was better than some other clubs get for lesser facilities)
- I would guess that ACL's bankers were also very happy with the deal that ACL did to clear the loan
- how was ACL going to be debt free if SISU apparently did a deal to take out the loan for them ?
- didnt the deal on the loan go through before the offer to reduce the rent etc on the 29th so why did the loan takeout terminate discussions?
- everyone and their dog knows that the main SISU tactic on anything is to head for the lawyers TF dont be so disingenuous...... who is going to be saddled with the lawyers costs i wonder? the club perhaps?
- SISU may have made proposals last December but it doesnt mean ACL/ council signed it or couldnt make other arrangements that they felt more appropriate for their business etc
- didnt actually answer question 9 TF
- A 125 year lease is viewed as the next best thing to freehold ownership, getting 50% of ACL on that basis was very valuable to the club
- forgot to mention that they agreed to buy out the debt 100% then changed their mind and wanted the council to buy 50% of it
- 50% of ACL still doesnt mean you access all the income TF
- there was I believe no contratc only Heads of Terms - those are not binding! as you well know from the dealings TF had with the Charity
- So what was it an offer on the table, heads of terms, a done deal ? make your mind up
- So what is the market rate for usage of the facilities? The fact we are L1 is not a great factor in that but is in the ability to afford any deal offered there is a difference
- no one is forcing CCFC out of the city other than SISU
- errr to be viable Tim you are going to need to costs including jobs/ staff etc ......
- the creditors listed show ACL owed £600k what about the rest of the lease which is a legal debt too
- oh by the way I can think of other creditors that should have been on the list
- there is of course a theory that SISU stage managed the whole thing to get to this point and got caught out by the Council backed loan
- retained specialists in December 2012 to get the land yet acted in good faith ? really?
wrote much more than intended ................ sorry
Spin.......
Please leave our Club Tim ........... most of us have had enough of your input
- How is it TF is running the club as we all know the Golden share is in ccfc ltd?
- season ticket sales to be announced, good luck with that going to be a big disappointment to you TF i think
- very close to the city isnt in the city
- Interesting on CWR this morning guy from Oxford supporters trust said Oxford pay £600k a year lease/licence in League 2 for 12500 capacity stadium and do not get the F&B's (their stadium cost £15m in 2001)
- seriously the cost of phones etc kept us from being viable????
- the request for three year deal made at end of January 2013, in TF's own words they had a plan to leave in December 2012, hardly negotiating in good faith
- there was a lease with 42 years left on it why would any landlord say ok just go do your own thing ?
- reinvest what back in the team? after paying off loans, the other running expenses, the wages based on a smaller FFP figure, interest to ARVO, return for investors, losses for the 3 years playing away from Coventry there wont be much left
- Actually the huge financial stress was the result mainly of 5 years of mis control and management. No not absolving ACL but lets be clear they do not run the club and certainly do not form the majority of the 30m losses to 31/05/11
- the ACL administration was withdrawn TF it was ARVO who put ccfc ltd in to administration - it is all in the administrators report if you care to read it
- Only way the club breaks even is to reduce costs to match income...... you know things like wages or interest paid to ARVO....... but income is about to nose dive for 3 years at least..... harder to finance the players on the pitch if break even is the target surely?
- lets be clear we were under transfer embargo before we went in to administration. You could have filed accounts July 2012 had you used a different strategy
- there was a deal on offer 29/01/13 (better than Oxfords it would seem) but SISU turned it down
- why is there old debt on the balance sheet when the takeover discounted that debt by 35m?
- did SBS&L actually ever pay out the old debt? No so why is it owed that money ?
- the debt hasnt been proven TF it is just the figure you have told the administrator.
- the 500K was actually grant money put to one side in an account that the club did not have rights to draw down but was legally required to top up.
- The £800k is not rent though is it Tim it is also the service charge for running the stadium usage by CCFC (light heat undersol heating repairs staffing of hospitality etc etc etc)
- what was the offer that was so generous - seems that the offer came from ACL (which was better than some other clubs get for lesser facilities)
- I would guess that ACL's bankers were also very happy with the deal that ACL did to clear the loan
- how was ACL going to be debt free if SISU apparently did a deal to take out the loan for them ?
- didnt the deal on the loan go through before the offer to reduce the rent etc on the 29th so why did the loan takeout terminate discussions?
- everyone and their dog knows that the main SISU tactic on anything is to head for the lawyers TF dont be so disingenuous...... who is going to be saddled with the lawyers costs i wonder? the club perhaps?
- SISU may have made proposals last December but it doesnt mean ACL/ council signed it or couldnt make other arrangements that they felt more appropriate for their business etc
- didnt actually answer question 9 TF
- A 125 year lease is viewed as the next best thing to freehold ownership, getting 50% of ACL on that basis was very valuable to the club
- forgot to mention that they agreed to buy out the debt 100% then changed their mind and wanted the council to buy 50% of it
- 50% of ACL still doesnt mean you access all the income TF
- there was I believe no contratc only Heads of Terms - those are not binding! as you well know from the dealings TF had with the Charity
- So what was it an offer on the table, heads of terms, a done deal ? make your mind up
- So what is the market rate for usage of the facilities? The fact we are L1 is not a great factor in that but is in the ability to afford any deal offered there is a difference
- no one is forcing CCFC out of the city other than SISU
- errr to be viable Tim you are going to need to costs including jobs/ staff etc ......
- the creditors listed show ACL owed £600k what about the rest of the lease which is a legal debt too
- oh by the way I can think of other creditors that should have been on the list
- there is of course a theory that SISU stage managed the whole thing to get to this point and got caught out by the Council backed loan
- retained specialists in December 2012 to get the land yet acted in good faith ? really?
wrote much more than intended ................ sorry
Spin.......
Please leave our Club Tim ........... most of us have had enough of your input
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I have changed my mind.
Before this Q&A I believed ACL would have to write off the rent arrears. But now I think they will receive what they are owed.
The debt owed to ACL is not £1.2m but £650k (ish) according to Mr Appelton.
Not that I think sisu will enjoy pay that debt, but simply because it indicate that sisu's plan is to offer the Administrator to pay off all debts in Limited.
That will mean Haskel or any other potential buyer would have to offer in the region of £70m for Limited - that won't happen. Sisu can offer to write off all debts to ARVO and the other companies in the group so in reality they would only need to pay the £650k to ACL plus the fees to Appelton and his lawyer - in total around £1.2m.
It will also shown FL that the exit from administration didn't put losses on third parties - that's fit and proper.
So I have to say I was wrong - sisu actually intend to pay ACL what is owed.
Before this Q&A I believed ACL would have to write off the rent arrears. But now I think they will receive what they are owed.
The debt owed to ACL is not £1.2m but £650k (ish) according to Mr Appelton.
Not that I think sisu will enjoy pay that debt, but simply because it indicate that sisu's plan is to offer the Administrator to pay off all debts in Limited.
That will mean Haskel or any other potential buyer would have to offer in the region of £70m for Limited - that won't happen. Sisu can offer to write off all debts to ARVO and the other companies in the group so in reality they would only need to pay the £650k to ACL plus the fees to Appelton and his lawyer - in total around £1.2m.
It will also shown FL that the exit from administration didn't put losses on third parties - that's fit and proper.
So I have to say I was wrong - sisu actually intend to pay ACL what is owed.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
So to sum up, if you lie enough, eventually people will give up and assume that you're telling the truth?
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
how is your job going at the council?