Fisher On CWR Now (5 Viewers)

[Otis]

are you seriously saying sisu and joy should put fan happiness over their business interests?

stop living in faitrytale land otis

They are the ones in fairytale land.

Raise another £30 million to build another stadium, while moving away and disenfranchising fans for at least 3 years with ever dwindling gates, to move to a smaller stadium that is all part of a 10 year plan.

:facepalm:

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

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[oldskyblue58]

So to put a little figure work on that

Say the player budget was 2m that would require a minimum turnover of 3.3m. That leaves 1.3m to play other wages (non FFP players, coaches, academy costs, directors, commercial staff etc) the general overheads, the rent of the ground share, direct costs (policing stewards etc) Interest on loans etc. Can all that be covered by 1.3m ? Been paying ARVO best part of £1m in interest I believe for example

I assume there would be some TV money, sponsorship, league money etc say that 1m. that leaves matchday income at 2.3m. So say the matchday average for tickets was £10 (thats after concessions, freebies etc) that would mean crowds of 10000.

btw if you back and divide matchday income by attendance each year it works out around £12 per head net of VAT roughly speaking

so if crowds were 3000 at £10 per head that gives a turnover of 690k

Yes there might be other bits of income, cup runs etc but it looks bleak to me

all playing with figures i know but i just can not get it to make much sense and it hammers the ffp calculation .......... and any ambition

we could of course get lucky and get promoted........... but i wouldnt bet anyones mortgage on that right now would you ?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

OSB we will be doing very well indeed to stay up if the groundshare goes ahead. It's so infuriating that they would rather spite ACL than allow both business and common sense to prevail.

I have said this before but it is a good thing that JH is in no state to know what is going on-I don't think he could handle it.

 

[oldskyblue58]

the FFP system has been in operation in L1 for two years and since 2004/05 in L2 so it is a tried and tested system

its the championship system that will new

 

[Otis]

OSB we will be doing very well indeed to stay up if the groundshare goes ahead. It's so infuriating that they would rather spite ACL than allow both business and common sense to prevail.

I have said this before but it is a good thing that JH is in no state to know what is going on-I don't think he could handle it.

Common sense dictates that we stay and play in Coventry at the Ricoh.

Anything else is just plain daft. It just needs some heads knocking together.

The whole thing is laughable at the moment. Middle of June, no kit, no signings, transfer embargo, administration, nowhere to play and the dream of a pie in the sky stadium many years down the line.

It really does beggar belief.

 

[Noggin]

So to put a little figure work on that

Say the player budget was 2m that would require a minimum turnover of 3.3m. That leaves 1.3m to play other wages (non FFP players, coaches, academy costs, directors, commercial staff etc) the general overheads, the rent of the ground share, direct costs (policing stewards etc) Interest on loans etc. Can all that be covered by 1.3m ? Been paying ARVO best part of £1m in interest I believe for example

I assume there would be some TV money, sponsorship, league money etc say that 1m. that leaves matchday income at 2.3m. So say the matchday average for tickets was £10 (thats after concessions, freebies etc) that would mean crowds of 10000.

btw if you back and divide matchday income by attendance each year it works out around £12 per head net of VAT roughly speaking

so if crowds were 3000 at £10 per head that gives a turnover of 690k

Yes there might be other bits of income, cup runs etc but it looks bleak to me

all playing with figures i know but i just can not get it to make much sense and it hammers the ffp calculation .......... and any ambition

we could of course get lucky and get promoted........... but i wouldnt bet anyones mortgage on that right now would you ?

with 2 players on 5k a week costing over 500k per year. We won't be able to afford a team. Of course it's not quite as grim as that as we won't have to get rid of players we can't afford, we will just be in constant embargo. If we aren't out of embargo by the time the season starts and ffp is calculated on the current season we won't be able to leave embargo at any point over the next 3 years and probably longer. We will have to do with the players we have and not be able to replace leavers untill we are in the new stadium.

 

[covcity4life]

They are the ones in fairytale land.

Raise another £30 million to build another stadium, while moving away and disenfranchising fans for at least 3 years with ever dwindling gates, to move to a smaller stadium that is all part of a 10 year plan.

:facepalm:

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

you dont have the ability to think long term, good job you dont own a business.

 

[grego_gee]

the FFP system has been in operation in L1 for two years and since 2004/05 in L2 so it is a tried and tested system

its the championship system that will new

Two years is not long to judge the effect of such significant change, and we have only felt it for one season. Perhaps we should ask the fans of teams that have felt it for two seasons if it makes for exciting football?

imp:

 

[Noggin]

you dont have the ability to think long term, good job you dont own a business.

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, long term this plan is bad (at least over the next 10 years anyway), the revenues from food and beverage will not make up for the loss of fans.

edit -If we got promoted next year (Which I see no realistic chance of) or we spend the 3 years building the new stadium at the ricoh the plan is significantly more viable and we can't judge it without the numbers then. My comment is only valid if we are moving for 3 + years.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Common sense dictates that we stay and play in Coventry at the Ricoh.

Anything else is just plain daft. It just needs some heads knocking together.

The whole thing is laughable at the moment. Middle of June, no kit, no signings, transfer embargo, administration, nowhere to play and the dream of a pie in the sky stadium many years down the line.

It really does beggar belief.

Then there's also our shitty stall outside Tesco and season tickets still being unavailable. If we didn't have a handful of players you wouldn't know we were even a fecking team!

 

[AJB1983]

the FFP system has been in operation in L1 for two years and since 2004/05 in L2 so it is a tried and tested system

its the championship system that will new

So if fisher was quoting FFP a couple of years ago when it wouldn't come into play in championship until 2014, is it suggestible that they were already talking as if we were a league 1 or 2 team, had no intention of us staying in champ and made sure we were relegated?
the only way they'll get their money back is by getting promotion to prem, and that's not gonna happen.
So why are they still here?

 

[dongonzalos]

We can debate it all we like.

The fact is it is not viable so a new stadium won't be built.

SISU's only has two actual viable options

1) Do the ground share for a year hoping that the combination of destroying the club and the Ricoh left empty. Forces the council to have them back on their terms ( ie give them ACL)

2) keep pushing with this plan hoping that someone else wins the ltd bid and over pays for it. Then also over pays for holdings.

 

[shmmeee]

So if fisher was quoting FFP a couple of years ago when it wouldn't come into play in championship until 2014, is it suggestible that they were already talking as if we were a league 1 or 2 team, had no intention of us staying in champ and made sure we were relegated?
the only way they'll get their money back is by getting promotion to prem, and that's not gonna happen.
So why are they still here?

The plan is to make the club financially stable over the next ten years and sell a more valuable asset than they have today.

The problem is the tiny detail of a football team attached to the business that without proper funding will drop through the leagues.

I can accept a new ground, I get that we need the money, but the question of what will happen to the team over the next three years still hasn't been answered.

 

[Houdi]

Perhaps the one thing Fisher has got the fans to agree on is the vital importance with financial fair play rules.is the urgent need to maximise revenues.Leaving aside the huge drop in revenues that even Fisher has acknowledged will occur during the exile from Coventry,you would have thought following his own logic that they would have done everything possible to maximise other revenues.Which then begs the question why is their only real retail offering aside from online is a little wheelbarrow.:facepalm:Surely following Fisher's logic that would be an obvious way of raising some much needed income.If they can't finance and support a retail outlet,how can fans feel confident that they can finance and support a huge new stadium build,starting effectively from scratch.

 

[@richh87]

You do if the £30m invested now pays off the £100m debt over 5-10 years

How on earth would it pay it off? You really think any profits made from the venture would be put back into the club? SISU would leave the debt with us and take the profits for themselves.

Have people learned nothing about SISU??

 

[shmmeee]

How on earth would it pay it off? You really think any profits made from the venture would be put back into the club? SISU would leave the debt with us and take the profits for themselves.

Have people learned nothing about SISU??

Haven't you?

1) They can't really do that legally
2) They've had chance after chance to make money from the club and haven't taken any of them

I know it doesn't fit the narrative, but they're not here to extract cash, they're here to raise the value of the business. Problem is they haven't a fucking clue how to do that.

 

[Delboycov]

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, long term this plan is bad (at least over the next 10 years anyway), the revenues from food and beverage will not make up for the loss of fans.

.....and we'll be at least another £30M in debt to SISU! Those backing this stupid plan...and I know they are a tiny minority...will ultimately have to take their share of the blame for giving this idiot a mandate to carry this through and it results in the death of our club.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Thanks ob,
I'm sure you're right.
But it gets forgotton that all of FFP is untried & tested!
Although it tries to prevent the previous unbridled system of billionaires like Obramavics "buying" success, we don't know how well we will like the new system until its been experienced.
It is likely to be dull and lifeless at best and may contain unforseen disasters for promoted or relegated sides.
It is likely to give closer budgets for all teams - and may bring a lot more no score draws!

imp:

What a ridiculous conclusion.

FFP will reinforce a fixed ranking, clubs that attract the crowds can ascend the league pyramid & clubs that have smaller crowds will be held back, as SISU propose to reduce the crowds they are really saying they are happy to hold us down.

 

[wingy]

I don't think he can use the term 'consultation' - it was more like 'information'. The decision was taken and nothing we could have said would have changed it. So definitely not a consultation.

Consultation would be the Fan survey the club did from its own Database ,only 25% of respondents confirmed they were willing to watch CCFC outside of Coventry.

 

[grego_gee]

Maybe half of the fans on here are not house owners so very scared of "debt".
An ordinary semi in London today costs £500k. Buy it on a mortgage and hold it for 5years. With house prices going up at 5% pa after 5 years you sell it and it has gone up to £640k! You didn't need to worry about "paying off the debt", the new buyer did it for you and you put £140k in your pocket!
Thats a simplistic picture and stadium financing is more complicated, but thats the way it works!

imp:

 

[grego_gee]

What a ridiculous conclusion.

FFP will reinforce a fixed ranking, clubs that attract the crowds can ascend the league pyramid & clubs that have smaller crowds will be held back, as SISU propose to reduce the crowds they are really saying they are happy to hold us down.

Its not ridiculous at all its a very logical conclusion.
The effect of FFP will be to reduce the contrast in the budgets of teams, hence they will be more equally matched.

imp:

 

[stringyb92]

If the club does build a new stadium and it turns out to be a success how many of these fans will turn around and say i backed it!

 

[Otis]

you dont have the ability to think long term, good job you dont own a business.

I do.

Shame Sisu do though.

 

[shmmeee]

Its not ridiculous at all its a very logical conclusion.
The effect of FFP will be to reduce the contrast in the budgets of teams, hence they will be more equally matched.

imp:

What? This makes no sense at all.

EDIT: To clarify: why would the budgets be more equally matched? Look at this table: http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html

This division's average crowd ranges from 2k to 18k and not by league position.

 

[The Penguin]

Its not ridiculous at all its a very logical conclusion.
The effect of FFP will be to reduce the contrast in the budgets of teams, hence they will be more equally matched.

imp:

That may be the case, but a club who spends 60% of 5m still has more money to spend than a club who spends 60% of 3m.

Although I think it's not how much you have, but how you spend it. We spend 5/6k per week on players like David Bell. Other clubs spend less on more effective players.

 

[Noggin]

Its not ridiculous at all its a very logical conclusion.
The effect of FFP will be to reduce the contrast in the budgets of teams, hence they will be more equally matched.

imp:

Is there more no score draws at the lowest levels of football where no one spends anything? If every team had the same amount to spend football would be an awesome sport and I don't believe for a second it would lower the amount of goals we see.

 

[grego_gee]

That may be the case, but a club who spends 60% of 5m still has more money to spend than a club who spends 60% of 3m.

Although I think it's not how much you have, but how you spend it. We spend 5/6k per week on players like David Bell. Other clubs spend less on more effective players.

Yes but there was potentially more contrast with the possibility of an Obramavich coming in and blessing someone (maybe the one with 60% of £5m in your example) with XXX Millions.
The mis-fires are likely to ocur in any team even with the best of intentions from managment. DB has arguably given some good service blighted by injury?
Malaga, I can't understand!

imp:

 

[SkyBlueUkeman]

So, w have a stadium, in the City, where we can play for free, opposed to a stadium in Birmingham/ or the other side of Birmingham where we have to pay rent?

I wonder what the Administrator will have to say about this.

It's all desperation now. Deluded Fisher has to stand by his word because that's what his boss is telling him to do. Muddy the water.

 

[RPHunt]

Maybe half of the fans on here are not house owners so very scared of "debt".
An ordinary semi in London today costs £500k. Buy it on a mortgage and hold it for 5years. With house prices going up at 5% pa after 5 years you sell it and it has gone up to £640k! You didn't need to worry about "paying off the debt", the new buyer did it for you and you put £140k in your pocket!
Thats a simplistic picture and stadium financing is more complicated, but thats the way it works!

imp:

Nonsense - London house prices increase because there is demand. How much demand is there for a crappy 15,000 stadium in Coventry or S Warwickshire (apart from our deluded owners)?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

FFP by proportions of turnover still enables clubs to wangle an advantage out of 'third party' sponsorship. It would be a lot simpler and fairer to impose an absolute spending cap on transfers and wages for each division.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

So, w have a stadium, in the City, where we can play for free, opposed to a stadium in Birmingham/ or the other side of Birmingham where we have to pay rent?

I wonder what the Administrator will have to say about this.

It's all desperation now. Deluded Fisher has to stand by his word because that's what his boss is telling him to do. Muddy the water.

Is she though:thinking about:

 

[grego_gee]

Is there more no score draws at the lowest levels of football where no one spends anything? If every team had the same amount to spend football would be an awesome sport and I don't believe for a second it would lower the amount of goals we see.

I didn't mean to imply ther would be less goals, although that might follow. I meant that teams with more equal budgets would lead to closer matches, with less big margin wins.
It would logically lead to tighter league tables with less points between top and bottom.
Didn't we see that last year to some degree?

Of course exceptions occur eg some matches where one or even two players get sent off.

imp:

 

[Noggin]

Maybe half of the fans on here are not house owners so very scared of "debt".
An ordinary semi in London today costs £500k. Buy it on a mortgage and hold it for 5years. With house prices going up at 5% pa after 5 years you sell it and it has gone up to £640k! You didn't need to worry about "paying off the debt", the new buyer did it for you and you put £140k in your pocket!
Thats a simplistic picture and stadium financing is more complicated, but thats the way it works!

imp:

I've got 3 mortgages thanks.

If you brought a 500k house with a 3% mortgage, kept it for 5 years and sold it even if house prices go up by 5% a year you do not make anything like 140k.

Firstly you spent £75k interest on your 500k mortgage over those 5 years. You spent £20k on stamp duty when buying the property. You Spend about 13k on estate agents or auction fees. You probably spend 3 grand with search fees, legal fees, arranging mortgage fees, survey fees etc, council tax on a 500k property in london is about £14k over 5 years and your profit is down to £15k and if it doesn't rise at 5% you might find you actually lose money.

I don't remember what was spent to build the Ricoh, I know you know though, add 5% per year to that, do you really think we could sell the Ricoh for that? If so if ACL/council are greedy, why not just said screw it to the football club and cash in?

 

[grego_gee]

Nonsense - London house prices increase because there is demand. How much demand is there for a crappy 15,000 stadium in Coventry or S Warwickshire (apart from our deluded owners)?

Too literal man!
I wasn't suggesting they would sell the stadium for a profit after 5 years, I was ilustrating the debt doesn't need to be paid off to benefit!
The benefit with buying the stadium will come in increased revenues, over the long term.
They can finance buying the stadium for little more than the cost of the rent, or maybe even less than the £1.2m we were being fleeced for!

imp:

 

[wingy]

Too literal man!
I wasn't suggesting they would sell the stadium for a profit after 5 years, I was ilustrating the debt doesn't need to be paid off to benefit!
The benefit with buying the stadium will come in increased revenues, over the long term.
They can finance buying the stadium for little more than the cost of the rent, or maybe even less than the £1.2m we were being fleeced for!

imp:

but that is only benefit to SISU .........no benefit for the club ,so why are we going through this ..Like Deluded 4 yr contracts..........to gain book Value ...........look where that got us.