I'm thinking he is referring to the Poster SBT (Sky Blue Taylor ) JW.
Finally getting some publicity (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mattylad
- Start date
Make it April for when ST's should've been on sale
I never slightly suggested the strategy was productive, it could work, it might force ACL's hand in negotiating, because they don't want a white elephant, and they (should) want CCFC at the RICOH, I don't know what will happen, I'm not a psychic, but I am convinced we'll be playing in the RICOH come August, and if we remain at the RICOH, even with SISU, the potential to draw big crowds will STILL remain, but we obviously have to be in the playoffs, or pushing autos, so that's what I'd focus on if I were SISU, getting together a competitive team, test these 'boycotters'.
That would require an additional £1.5M. for the playing budget at 65% of circa 9-10K. crowds, that would mirror last seasons commitment .Anything less is a mockery of the Entire charade.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Make it April for when ST's should've been on sale
I never slightly suggested the strategy was productive, it could work, it might force ACL's hand in negotiating, because they don't want a white elephant, and they (should) want CCFC at the RICOH, I don't know what will happen, I'm not a psychic, but I am convinced we'll be playing in the RICOH come August, and if we remain at the RICOH, even with SISU, the potential to draw big crowds will STILL remain, but we obviously have to be in the playoffs, or pushing autos, so that's what I'd focus on if I were SISU, getting together a competitive team, test these 'boycotters'.
'It could work'? Did you really mean to type that?
According to the Football League website, the season in which SISU rolled into town, our average gate was 19,123. Last season is was 10,948.
After all this; what even if we stay at the Ricoh? What next season? 8K?
What's the difference in crowds over term relate to in lost income? £4 to £5m?
And of course, that lower attendance equates to lower investment via FFP, leading to worsening league position. Or even league.
Remind me, in what parallel universe is this seen as a process that 'working'?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
More baloney. The tax payer has nothing to do with the Ricoh. It's performance is entirely separate to the local tax structure. Of course if the council starts borrowing money to prop up a failed management company that cannot manage its cash flow then that could be another story.
As for the other tripe I assume your Dad took you to watch ACL United. Where did they play? Was there a roof on it?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Failed management? Can't manage it's cashflow?
Sometimes your myopia leaves me speechless
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
That's pretty much what Timmie called them....which is ironic because ACL make profits every year, whereas CCFC which Timmie is Chief Exec, makes loses every year...pot/kettle/black ?
I would second this.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
I tell you what I find amazing; is that ACL have diversified their business quite well, actually. With regards direct income the football is only a quarter or so of income - although I understand there are many interconnected incomes - and that as a concert venue in particular, it really has done well. Ten to fifteen years ago, if you'd have told many Coventrians that acts of the ilk of Springsteen, Muse, Coldplay et al would be playing at the Foleshill gas works; you'd have been laughed out of town.
They are not perfect - that's agreed by all bar the most misguided, and the rent the football club is paying right now is too high; but the way they're lambasted by some on here is crazed.
The football club should have looked at engaging with ACL. Either buying a portion, as was discussed, we understand; or agreeing a deal whereby rent was reduced over term. Maybe starting below it's current level, but reducing over, say, a five-year term to a negligible level. This ramp-down corresponding to ACL's other incomes being increased. Working hand in hand. So, ACL remains profitable and so can continue to maintain and build upon the facilities already there; and the club gets a better deal to give more free cash to invest back in the squad.
Instead, in my view, Fisher decided to smash it to bits. They'd presided over a disastrous reign, overseen relegation and savagely cut gates; and gambled on distressing ACL in order to feather the nest of their exit strategy. The rest: rent, F&B's, eagles and ducks or whetever they were; just being noise to disguise their ultimate ambition
@richh87
Member
Fisher is a liar mate, come on just say it.
Not sure who said it but of course losing 4k of supporters is going to hit the club. Thats probably £1m-£1.5m+ a year for however many years whilst a new stadium is being built ?! With FFP now in force, that will impact the club significantly, far more so than not getting the revenue stream from a few burgers and pies.
What a mess ! Everyone says that SISU have played a blinder but I dont believe even they envisaged getting this far into such a bad situation. They tried to bully ACL (possibly with the intention of distressing the business), ACL stood up to them and now look at the mess we are in.
SISU and only SISU are answerable for this situation. Theres one thing trying to negotiate a better lease deal for the club, which £400k p.a for a stadium most other fans comment as being one of the best they have been to, was a decent enough deal, but to allegedly renege on that and continue with the agressive tactics which have led to this situation is unforgiveable.
Unfortunately for the team, enoughs enough for a lot of fans and I'd be surprised if we regularly get 4k-5k supporting a team playing outside of Coventry (unless we get off to an absolute flyer). A sorry state of affairs
What a mess ! Everyone says that SISU have played a blinder but I dont believe even they envisaged getting this far into such a bad situation. They tried to bully ACL (possibly with the intention of distressing the business), ACL stood up to them and now look at the mess we are in.
SISU and only SISU are answerable for this situation. Theres one thing trying to negotiate a better lease deal for the club, which £400k p.a for a stadium most other fans comment as being one of the best they have been to, was a decent enough deal, but to allegedly renege on that and continue with the agressive tactics which have led to this situation is unforgiveable.
Unfortunately for the team, enoughs enough for a lot of fans and I'd be surprised if we regularly get 4k-5k supporting a team playing outside of Coventry (unless we get off to an absolute flyer). A sorry state of affairs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...m-dispute-disgruntled-fans-Coventry-City.html
National exposure started lets keep it up.
National exposure started lets keep it up.
Matty_CCFC
New Member
go and put this information through the letter box of the fl
Sub
Well-Known Member
Unpopular owners, stadium dispute and disgruntled fans, so what now for Coventry City?
By Neil Moxley
PUBLISHED: 11:34 GMT, 19 June 2013 | UPDATED: 12:04 GMT, 19 June 2013
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The sense of foreboding in the statement issued by administrator Paul Appleton was almost palpable.
'I appreciate the end result of the sale process will not necessarily be welcomed by a large number of Coventry City fans,' it read.
You could almost hear the bloke gulp.
Hard times: Coventry Limited have lurched from one crisis to another
Judging by the unprecedented number of emails received by Sportsmail this week about the issue, it is fair to say that the decision has struck a chord.
I wish I could re-produce each letter in full. The theme is re-produced faithfully in each.
Pure, unadulterated desperation at the decision to award ownership of the club to, essentially, previous owners SISU.
The emotional hurt in correspondence from the likes of Paul Horne, James Ledger and Tony Harris - to name but three - centres on the perceived unfairness of allowing the hedge fund to remain in charge.
Legally, the club's owners have done nothing wrong. Ethically? Well, that's another question altogether. But what did people expect them to do? Walk away, having lost £70m?
Never going to happen.
SISU may be Public Enemy No 1 in all of this. But who, in all fairness, comes out with any credit?
Previous blogs have charted the initial cause of all this angst.
It wasn't a natural consequence of that mis-management which ensured we would end up at this juncture, however.
The fingers of blame are being pointed in mainly one direction - SISU.
Tough job: Coventry City's manager Steven Pressley
Rightly so, on many fronts. But the hedge fund's major sin is in its' negligence with its' own money.
And it's unforgivable and laughable really that they are employed in the financial services sector.
Yes, someone somewhere has entrusted this august body with its' pension provision. (I'm desperately hoping from here that the Daily Mail isn't a client...)
But wherever the fingers of blame are to be pointed - and SISU's financial negligence, the crass opportunism of ACL and knights on white chargers who appear to be nothing of the sort - the question is: 'What now for Coventry City Football Club?'
First, it is absolutely pointless harping on about Preston Haskell IV, V, VI....and what he might or might not have done. He's now nearly bought Bolton, Leeds, Charlton and Coventry. (Way to go, Prest!) His rantings are about as hollow as they come.
The sale has been completed and now ratified by the Football League.
Gary Hoffman and his crew have had their chance. Better for all that they disappear into the shadows.
Any public proclamation is simply petty point-scoring and muddying the waters for the fans, every statement raising expectation before the substance is examined and shown up to be about as watertight as a sodden paper bag.
No, I'm afraid that the supporters are stuck with SISU, oops Otium, and have a decision to make.
From the viewpoint of that firm, it makes little sense building another stadium when the Ricoh Arena is fit for purpose - although I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that unless there is an unbelievable volte-face that the Sky Blues will be playing their League matches miles from their city next season. Could they build another stadium? Possibly.
If the licence with ACL demanded £1m-a-season for the next half-century, it would make sense to move, if SISU's pockets were deep enough. The club's de facto chief executive, Tim Fisher, remains convinced one could be built for £25m.
But they would need planning consent from Coventry City Council to site the ground in the city - given the depths to which the relationship between those two parties have plummeted, the chances of that are less than zero.
No, it makes sense for everyone for SISU to use the money instead to gain control of the Ricoh.
So, the question for them is: How do they gain control of it?
And here, I believe, the situation starts to get interesting.
ACL remain without their anchor tenant. And I don't care how bullish the statements from that company, the figures show that they and the council have some ground to make up.
Just using a simple mortgage calculator, you can see where I'm going.
The re-mortgage earlier this year was £14m. Re-payable over 20 years at an interest rate of 4 per cent - which works out at £46,666 per month. That shortfall has to be made up from somewhere.
If the money has been lent at 6 per cent, that rockets to £70,000 per month.
And both of those loans are interest only...
Of course, the term could be longer and commercial interest rates are generally higher than residential but the fact remains that ACL will be taking a hit.
And so, to the $64,000 question: 'Can they withstand it?'
That really, is where the next turn in the road will be.
There is one other aspect to take into consideration at this point.
ACL have sold off the concessionary rights to food and beverage specialists Compass. It is worth remembering that this has a commercial value.
That firm would have bid for 15,000 customers to buy a pie and a pint on 23 occasions through the season.
It was one thought - rejected by ACL's spokespeople last week - that pressure from that direction had led to the offer to the club that they could play at the Ricoh rent-free.
After all, it would stand to reason that Compass might want some of their money back if ACL don't have the Sky Blues playing at the Ricoh. It all adds to the financial pressure.
Come to think of it, the casino bosses probably aren't too pleased, either.
I've been down there a couple of times for a beer and the place is full on matchdays. The football club's absence will be hitting them in the pocket, too.
As for the playing side...well, I'd normally write: 'Forget about the ground-sharing for the time being...' but football is too emotive for that.
No club can ever forget the loss of its' spiritual home, albeit on a temporary basis. Look at the outpourings when Charlton Athletic returned to the Valley after stints at Selhurst Park and Upton Park.
But the owners will press ahead with their plans to ground-share. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.
Think about it. Their best bet is to wait and see what happens to ACL. And Coventry City Council too if the judicial review goes against the local authority and it is judged that they do have a case to answer over the use of tax-payers funds.
I'm sorry to have to say but those who think that this situation can only now improve might be waiting a while longer.
Coventry City kicking-off next season's League One fixtures at a venue other than the Ricoh Arena is, as it stands, a racing certainty.
The club's owners will wait to see as to the fall-out their absence causes ACL and the City Council before making their next long-term move.
Anyone who had deep enough pockets to front a takeover had their chance. SISU aren't going anywhere. In fact, their position has been strengthened by this circus.
The supporters are faced with Hobson's choice. Do they turn their backs on the club? Or continue to support a regime which, despite its' best efforts, is clearly not flavour-of-the-month?
Coventry's supporters are a hardy bunch. But those who think their patience has been tested to the limit may need to find new reserves of stamina.
Unless one side caves in - and I just can't see it - this saga is still some way from being played out.
I'm afraid to say the rotten, horrible, stinking mess won't be cleared up anytime soon.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...runtled-fans-Coventry-City.html#ixzz2WfdwrPxe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
By Neil Moxley
PUBLISHED: 11:34 GMT, 19 June 2013 | UPDATED: 12:04 GMT, 19 June 2013
20 shares
0
View
comments
The sense of foreboding in the statement issued by administrator Paul Appleton was almost palpable.
'I appreciate the end result of the sale process will not necessarily be welcomed by a large number of Coventry City fans,' it read.
You could almost hear the bloke gulp.
Judging by the unprecedented number of emails received by Sportsmail this week about the issue, it is fair to say that the decision has struck a chord.
I wish I could re-produce each letter in full. The theme is re-produced faithfully in each.
Pure, unadulterated desperation at the decision to award ownership of the club to, essentially, previous owners SISU.
The emotional hurt in correspondence from the likes of Paul Horne, James Ledger and Tony Harris - to name but three - centres on the perceived unfairness of allowing the hedge fund to remain in charge.
Legally, the club's owners have done nothing wrong. Ethically? Well, that's another question altogether. But what did people expect them to do? Walk away, having lost £70m?
Never going to happen.
SISU may be Public Enemy No 1 in all of this. But who, in all fairness, comes out with any credit?
Previous blogs have charted the initial cause of all this angst.
It wasn't a natural consequence of that mis-management which ensured we would end up at this juncture, however.
The fingers of blame are being pointed in mainly one direction - SISU.
Rightly so, on many fronts. But the hedge fund's major sin is in its' negligence with its' own money.
And it's unforgivable and laughable really that they are employed in the financial services sector.
Yes, someone somewhere has entrusted this august body with its' pension provision. (I'm desperately hoping from here that the Daily Mail isn't a client...)
But wherever the fingers of blame are to be pointed - and SISU's financial negligence, the crass opportunism of ACL and knights on white chargers who appear to be nothing of the sort - the question is: 'What now for Coventry City Football Club?'
First, it is absolutely pointless harping on about Preston Haskell IV, V, VI....and what he might or might not have done. He's now nearly bought Bolton, Leeds, Charlton and Coventry. (Way to go, Prest!) His rantings are about as hollow as they come.
The sale has been completed and now ratified by the Football League.
Gary Hoffman and his crew have had their chance. Better for all that they disappear into the shadows.
Any public proclamation is simply petty point-scoring and muddying the waters for the fans, every statement raising expectation before the substance is examined and shown up to be about as watertight as a sodden paper bag.
No, I'm afraid that the supporters are stuck with SISU, oops Otium, and have a decision to make.
From the viewpoint of that firm, it makes little sense building another stadium when the Ricoh Arena is fit for purpose - although I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that unless there is an unbelievable volte-face that the Sky Blues will be playing their League matches miles from their city next season. Could they build another stadium? Possibly.
If the licence with ACL demanded £1m-a-season for the next half-century, it would make sense to move, if SISU's pockets were deep enough. The club's de facto chief executive, Tim Fisher, remains convinced one could be built for £25m.
But they would need planning consent from Coventry City Council to site the ground in the city - given the depths to which the relationship between those two parties have plummeted, the chances of that are less than zero.
No, it makes sense for everyone for SISU to use the money instead to gain control of the Ricoh.
So, the question for them is: How do they gain control of it?
And here, I believe, the situation starts to get interesting.
ACL remain without their anchor tenant. And I don't care how bullish the statements from that company, the figures show that they and the council have some ground to make up.
Just using a simple mortgage calculator, you can see where I'm going.
The re-mortgage earlier this year was £14m. Re-payable over 20 years at an interest rate of 4 per cent - which works out at £46,666 per month. That shortfall has to be made up from somewhere.
If the money has been lent at 6 per cent, that rockets to £70,000 per month.
And both of those loans are interest only...
Of course, the term could be longer and commercial interest rates are generally higher than residential but the fact remains that ACL will be taking a hit.
And so, to the $64,000 question: 'Can they withstand it?'
That really, is where the next turn in the road will be.
There is one other aspect to take into consideration at this point.
ACL have sold off the concessionary rights to food and beverage specialists Compass. It is worth remembering that this has a commercial value.
That firm would have bid for 15,000 customers to buy a pie and a pint on 23 occasions through the season.
It was one thought - rejected by ACL's spokespeople last week - that pressure from that direction had led to the offer to the club that they could play at the Ricoh rent-free.
After all, it would stand to reason that Compass might want some of their money back if ACL don't have the Sky Blues playing at the Ricoh. It all adds to the financial pressure.
Come to think of it, the casino bosses probably aren't too pleased, either.
I've been down there a couple of times for a beer and the place is full on matchdays. The football club's absence will be hitting them in the pocket, too.
As for the playing side...well, I'd normally write: 'Forget about the ground-sharing for the time being...' but football is too emotive for that.
No club can ever forget the loss of its' spiritual home, albeit on a temporary basis. Look at the outpourings when Charlton Athletic returned to the Valley after stints at Selhurst Park and Upton Park.
But the owners will press ahead with their plans to ground-share. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.
Think about it. Their best bet is to wait and see what happens to ACL. And Coventry City Council too if the judicial review goes against the local authority and it is judged that they do have a case to answer over the use of tax-payers funds.
I'm sorry to have to say but those who think that this situation can only now improve might be waiting a while longer.
Coventry City kicking-off next season's League One fixtures at a venue other than the Ricoh Arena is, as it stands, a racing certainty.
The club's owners will wait to see as to the fall-out their absence causes ACL and the City Council before making their next long-term move.
Anyone who had deep enough pockets to front a takeover had their chance. SISU aren't going anywhere. In fact, their position has been strengthened by this circus.
The supporters are faced with Hobson's choice. Do they turn their backs on the club? Or continue to support a regime which, despite its' best efforts, is clearly not flavour-of-the-month?
Coventry's supporters are a hardy bunch. But those who think their patience has been tested to the limit may need to find new reserves of stamina.
Unless one side caves in - and I just can't see it - this saga is still some way from being played out.
I'm afraid to say the rotten, horrible, stinking mess won't be cleared up anytime soon.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...runtled-fans-Coventry-City.html#ixzz2WfdwrPxe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
Pretty fair article, without going into massive amounts of detail