Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
In my mind it is worth waiting that time so we put all of our energy into saving the current entity and not spending time, energy and money on another club. Only then can we say we did all we could.
I talked to B.C.F.A re. phoenix club. (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gary.j
- Start date
In my mind it is worth waiting that time so we put all of our energy into saving the current entity and not spending time, energy and money on another club. Only then can we say we did all we could.
SkyBlueSwiss
New Member
I wish I could see any way at all in which we, the fans, could influence that, but I think SISU have quite convincingly shown us that they do not give a sod about the fans and have zero interest in what the fans say, so I do not believe any amount of energy expended by the fan base will alter what SISU do by one iota.
Ergo - time to start the Phoenix club now and not wait on the whims of SISU.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Many clubs have had poor owners - wolves, Birmingham, Southampton the list is endless. To cut and run and surrender 130 years of heritage is cowardly and illogical.
Yes I can see why someone who never attends matches would applaud such a ridiculous action as it gives them greater affinity. Fact is only a tiny percentage would ever support such nonsense. This idea needs to be strangled at birth.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I've explained at length why I don't think such an idea is viable so I will leave it there. Nothing on you
Sorry if I've missed stuff. Not had time read all 22 pages!
This week will probably focus a few minds. The FL have to make a ruling this week, surely? If they go the route we all fear, despite common sense, ethics and all that, then the idea of a Phoenix club may seem more of a proposition. Better to wait a few more days. See what the League do and take it from there. We're not going to get into any league this season with a newco club.
If the FL do the right thing we'll all be dancing in the street. A new owner can negotiate a more reasonable rent and profit from the sale of food.
As I've said before, I don't think either Cov United or Cov Sphinx would be averse to having some investment and taking on the role.
We'll all know more this week. Let's hang on just a few more days.
This week will probably focus a few minds. The FL have to make a ruling this week, surely? If they go the route we all fear, despite common sense, ethics and all that, then the idea of a Phoenix club may seem more of a proposition. Better to wait a few more days. See what the League do and take it from there. We're not going to get into any league this season with a newco club.
If the FL do the right thing we'll all be dancing in the street. A new owner can negotiate a more reasonable rent and profit from the sale of food.
As I've said before, I don't think either Cov United or Cov Sphinx would be averse to having some investment and taking on the role.
We'll all know more this week. Let's hang on just a few more days.
Any phoenix club couldn't start playing league football until August 2014, so there is plenty of time to see how things pan out over the next few months, and then if the idea of a phoenix club seems appropriate, there is still time to set it up properly in time for next year.
We need to see how it pans out at Northampton (most people accept the FL won't stand in SISU's way), and also if they are serious about building a new stadium (I doubt it)
We need to see how it pans out at Northampton (most people accept the FL won't stand in SISU's way), and also if they are serious about building a new stadium (I doubt it)
This is also how I feel, I don't see how anyone can deal with sisu in any capacity, not even a prospective purchaser.
Otis
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Any Phoenix club couldn't play any league football until around 2020.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Fair enough!
Yea, I meant in a league.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
None and to date nor have we.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Well let's hope it stays that way.
Trouble is, if not true this has still totally fooked with Sky Blue supporters' minds.
Fine having a contingency, but when Fisher has said there is no way back to the Ricoh, you have to take statements of moving the club elsewhere very seriously.
Trouble is, if not true this has still totally fooked with Sky Blue supporters' minds.
Fine having a contingency, but when Fisher has said there is no way back to the Ricoh, you have to take statements of moving the club elsewhere very seriously.
CCFC_GT
New Member
Back from a nice pub beer garden. Thanks BSB for comments, don't mind you being critical at all because I don't pretend to know or be right about everything I am just putting some thoughts out there to prompt discussion. Re your points:-
1. If CCC/ACL wouldn't let a fledgling phoenix/start-up use the venue free of charge and to take all the proceeds from games then I agree the club would not be viable at the Ricoh. But I hope I have already set out several reasons for a positive outcome on this:-
a) There doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back. (I missed this point from my post amalgamation). So my question would be what are the better alternatives available to CCC/ACL?
b) It would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture (unless we can get CCFC back)
c) If, despite my arguments above, CCC/ACL are still not prepared to allow the fledgling club to grow with revenues on a free of charge basis until it is able to contribute to costs, then I see another possible option. It is reported that PH4 intends to proceed with the purchase of a half share of the Ricoh. In contracts it is quite normal for CCC to insist on various pre-conditions such as building infrastructure etc., and in the case of the Ricoh I believe it would be in CCC/ACL interests to insist (because it would be in CCC/ACL long term interests to do so) that any investment in the Ricoh goes hand in hand with an initial or on-going investment in the fledgling club to cover costs until the club is able to cover through revenues.
2. I agree with you that there will inevitably be some polarisation of the fan base, because it already exists, and as Stewpot detailed there are already various categories of supporter. where we will all end up will depend on what happens. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back from SISU/Northampton we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.
3. if PH4 buys a half share in the Ricoh that makes this all the more possible. IF PH4 is the principal investor (without loading debt) in the phoenix club and ultimately the successful purchaser of CCFC at some stage in the future that would ease this process. All the time, energy and money put into the 'phoenix' club for me from the outset should be for the purpose of reuniting us the supporters who are the club with the legal entity of CCFC within Coventry by hopefully persuading SISU to sell, or if that can't happen then giving us a vehicle for continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC at the Ricoh.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You seem to have a huge amount of optimism that Haskell will want to take on a brand new club extremely low down the footballing pyramid-where does this come from? If, as you say, 'old' Cov comes back to the city and SISU leave, do you think he will be happy to just write off all that he has invested in 'new' Cov? I accept your points on a lack of clear alternatives at this stage to fill our place at the Ricoh however if ACL manage to find a way that the phoenix can't manage, they will surely go for the former. I stand by my suggestion that sharing the rugby ground makes more sense whilst any new club is still finding its feet.
I also don't see why PH4 will want to just gift money to the new club and I'm especially unsure if he'd actually be allowed to do so if there are financial regulations that far down the ladder. If old Cov are still about and your strategy succeeds in forcing SISU out, would they not be a much more attractive option to him given that they would be starting in the Football League? No investor is just going to gift money to a club that will not only take years to get any sizeable return, but is likely to fold once it has achieved its specified aim. I'm 100% in favour of a phoenix club if the current CCFC disappears, don't get me wrong-and the debate seems to centre more around whether the club is actually already dead or not.
I don't think it is, and starting a protest club to try and remedy the situation to me just seems destined to fail.
I also don't see why PH4 will want to just gift money to the new club and I'm especially unsure if he'd actually be allowed to do so if there are financial regulations that far down the ladder. If old Cov are still about and your strategy succeeds in forcing SISU out, would they not be a much more attractive option to him given that they would be starting in the Football League? No investor is just going to gift money to a club that will not only take years to get any sizeable return, but is likely to fold once it has achieved its specified aim. I'm 100% in favour of a phoenix club if the current CCFC disappears, don't get me wrong-and the debate seems to centre more around whether the club is actually already dead or not.
I don't think it is, and starting a protest club to try and remedy the situation to me just seems destined to fail.
SkyBlueSwiss
New Member
Ignoring for the moment that you haunt these pages waiting for me to post so that you can continue your silly vendetta and attempt your pathetic put-downs (don't you have a real life?):
Why does the thought of a Phoenix club make you feel so threatened? What is going on in your deranged mind that you attack everyone and anyone who suggests this? Nobody is asking YOU to support a Phoenix club; YOU will be in Northampton following the club that YOU personally believe to still be Coventry City Football Club, even though it will no longer be in Coventry.
No-one on here is trying to take that away from you and you can happily sit in your seat in Northampton at 3pm on Saturdays. So why do YOU try to take away what other people want? Why can't you just get on with your own team in Northampton and leave those of us that prefer football in our home town of Coventry to get on with it?
What is WRONG with you that this upsets you so?
The OP is about a Phoenix club, NOT a protest club!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
A phoenix club by definition is one that is formed from a club that has ceased to exist-CCFC still does so this would indeed be a protest club.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I disagree, if someone came along and offered the amount SISU out in, the offer would be take, easily, but when you've invested so much capital, yet the only bid so far has been from Hoffman's consortium, for £1, after putting in, they say 40-odd million, they would tell them to feck off, I know I would if placed in a similar situation. No one would walk away from 40m, to satisfy people who reckon it's less, same applies, I don't think you, or anyone would walk away from such somes of cash.
The only way I think SISU will leave is through admin - again! - but they are stubborn buggers!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes £1 for the business was offered as a nominal sum but an oft quoted figure of £10m was also offered to pay off SISU in part.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
it does not matter one iota how much they have put in - eg a gambler chasing his losses
current worth is negliglible
forecast losses over the next 3 years must be £15m
therefore there is clearly something else behind sisus stubbornness
some accounting technicality which is enabling them to make a fortune from the situation perhaps
current worth is negliglible
forecast losses over the next 3 years must be £15m
therefore there is clearly something else behind sisus stubbornness
some accounting technicality which is enabling them to make a fortune from the situation perhaps
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
He already knows that. Also there was a share of future profits.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It seemed like he didn't.
SkyBlueSwiss
New Member
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
He has never answered anyone.. because he hasn't got a cogent argument.
CCFC_GT
New Member
If you read again you will see that my point is not based on optimism that PH4 will want to invest in a Midlands Combination club, though from a public relations angle it is quite conceivable that he might be quite willing to do so anyway even if this is initially by not levying costs on the club to play there (avoiding any possible regulations on investment in the club). What additional costs that ACL doesn't already face would be incurred by opening one stand once a fortnight and maintaining the pitch to Midland Combination level? Costs for policing and stewarding would be relative to the size of crowd anyway, and the greater the crowd the greater the income for the club from tickets, kit merchandise and possibly even catering, and with that the possibility to contribute to costs through income. I have thrown catering in there as well because what has compass got to lose, would it rather have 100% of nothing or 50% of something? I have never indulged in the catering on offer at the Ricoh out of principle but would if I knew my club would benefit.
I fully accept that if PH4/ACL have some grandiose alternative development plan for the Ricoh and surrounding area that maybe includes roofing the stadium to provide a year round concert and exhibition venue to try and rival the NEC, then the doors to the Ricoh will be closed to the football club for good, and we will have all parties involved on all sides to thank for that IMHO. I guess we will find out PH4 proposals soon enough. Other than this I don't see any other options for the stadium that don't include a Coventry football club.
I take your point about sharing the Cov rugby ground as an alternative option, and though personally this would not be my preferred option of the two, I would go with this idea too, though I would be concerned about the state of the pitch with any ground sharing scheme. To me also playing at the Ricoh would be a greater symbol of ambition and intent which may in turn attract greater support.
As has been pointed out, it is probably too late to organise and register a team for this season anyway, and by the start of next season the future or otherwise of CCFC will hopefully be clearer, but at this stage I don't trust SISU to follow through with the declared plan of returning to a new stadium close to Coventry, and nor do I believe it would be achievable in three years taking into account planning considerations.
We will also find out soon enough whether all our protestations and petitioning have achieved anything, and maybe then the only option we then have left will be to consider our options for the years ahead and what continuing influence (losses greater than they have budgeted for by not attending home matches in Northampton, and future uncertainty for their franchise through the creation of a new club) we can try to bring to bear on SISU to return to Cov or sell up. The alternative would be to do nothing which surely would be destined to fail. That is why we should debate all options now, and in no way means we should give up on CCFC.
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Manchester_sky_blue
Well-Known Member
I have been saying this for ages. They must be filtering money through us somehow (and making on the deal) otherwise they would not be so desperate to keep hold of us. There is undeniably something more to it.
Seyeclops666
New Member
When will you and people like you understand that we will never return to Coventry (or to the edge of Coventry ie Warwickshire) in a new stadium - in 3 years, 10 years or 50 years!!! Cov Council will never allow a new stadium and neither will any of the districts in Warwickshire - how do I know - 1) common sense and knowledge of local/central government but 2) because at the Local Government association Conference in Manchester last week I spoke to most of the Warwickshire District Council Leaders and Chief Executives (who would have to approve planning for a new stadium) and they just laughed at the idea they would ever approve planning permission for a stadium. I had a long discussion with 3 of them and they were adamant that they had all the tools at their disposal to block any attempt to force it through.
You need to understand this so you can think more clearly about what may happen in the future - stop holding onto the SISU myth of a new stadium and it will free your mind !!
Andy Smith. (AFC Wimbledon supporter, on https://www.facebook.com/groups/569136386443241/?ref=ts&fref=ts)
When the Wimbledon move happened everyone just thought "what the fuck we gonna do on a Saturday now", then we came up with afc Wimbledon, job done. We have our club back. I hope it doesn't come to this with cov, but if it does it's not a bad journey, we had some cracking away days in shitty little towns we'd never heard of taking 2,000 fans to some village for a game of football. Haha! Non league football is fun but hard.
https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883
When the Wimbledon move happened everyone just thought "what the fuck we gonna do on a Saturday now", then we came up with afc Wimbledon, job done. We have our club back. I hope it doesn't come to this with cov, but if it does it's not a bad journey, we had some cracking away days in shitty little towns we'd never heard of taking 2,000 fans to some village for a game of football. Haha! Non league football is fun but hard.
https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883
stupot07
Well-Known Member
But Wimbledon permanently moved to mk dons and re-franchised, never to return to Wimbledon. A completely different scenario to the one we currently face at this point in time.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
That may be so, but we have to wait it out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
That's what the problem is then.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell, they were lucky to take 200 fans away when they were in the Premier League!