RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
You are right, it's still in ACL's court tho if they reject the CVA..
Wake up supporters - you are being conned! (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter just-here-4-coffee
- Start date
You are right, it's still in ACL's court tho if they reject the CVA..
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
How privvy are you to that info?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The difference in cost between playing at Northampton and the Ricoh is £300k. The difference in all of the lost revenue resulting from a groundshare in a comparatively tiny ground and having no club shop is much, much more. I'm still waiting for this game of ultimate chicken to end but we're cutting it mighty fine.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Everybody is, the details were posted on the Trust website months ago.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Thanks must have been while I was on holiday or something..
Wait your not talking about the time where SISU claimed everything was Sub Judice?
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
I found a book today called Grendel: A Cautionary Tale About Chocolate. This is the blurb from the back:
"Grendel loved chocolate. He loved it more than anything else in the world. So, when he was granted three wishes, what did he ask for? MORE CHOCOLATE, OF COURSE!
But, as everyone knows, you have to be careful what you wish for.."
Swap chocolate for SISU, and it really is uncannily biographical :wave:
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It's on the Trust website somewhere. At least now everyone's got what they want-SISU pay the League £1m, Northampton get a few hundred grand, and the club is completely humiliated. Still, it shows ACL doesn't it? That's all that counts. No phoenix for me, until the club comes back then my interest in English football is dead.
Even though the poster makes a valid point and I do agree it's not all SISU's fault. However, we need a stadium and acl etc have point blank said they won't sell it to SISU. So would they sell it to ccfc ltd instead? Erm, no. Because it would be transfered to SISU for them to do the same as they have done to the club. Run it into the ground.
We live in a supposedly democratic country. However as ever the majority (ad seen on polls on here) don't count for jack shit as the majority don't want SISU as owners. I don't care where we play as long as sisu go. Enough chances. Enough said.
We live in a supposedly democratic country. However as ever the majority (ad seen on polls on here) don't count for jack shit as the majority don't want SISU as owners. I don't care where we play as long as sisu go. Enough chances. Enough said.
blueflint
Well-Known Member
could you trust something of that value to SISU they sold everything city had that was saleable
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
They offered the revenues to be cross invoiced and we rejected it. Rather than enter constructive negotiations for the ground we immediately launched into a boycott which was more akin to a hostile takeover.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
As I've said before I now believe everything Tim says even the contradictory bits.
hopesprings
Well-Known Member
Could I just ask what EXACTLY should ACL and presumably the Council and Higgs charity be offering to Sissu.? What would be acceptable in your opinion to play at the Ricoh this season?
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
Yep that's it. I must confess, it's been an enlightening affair engaging with you fans. On the strength of my findings I might become a turncoat and start supporting ACL against my employers.
Get real kiddo! And change the frickin record already!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
'Lol m8 y dnt u jst go n buy a fkin SHITSU lmao'
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
For anyone thinking coffee man is TF, look at when he joined the forum-pre dates his appointment at CCFC.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
37 Pages and 367 posts later.....
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I've been posting mainly off my phone lately so didn't notice it till now.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
It's fine, you seem like a decent enough chap so I shan't hold it against you.
Sky Blues
Active Member
Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if someone has already made these points in blue...
I am largely a reader of this forum, not a poster (I'm unsure of precisely what my post count is, but it will be low), but I have to make an exception in this case.
I've avoided this forum like the plague now for some time because frankly it's depressing watching the majority of supporters peddle the agenda of the club's landlords and particularly the council who have been heavily involved with the skullduggery surrounding our club, principally because they seem to have you all convinced that their hands are not blood stained, despite the punitive measures they have taken against your football club!
I presume you refer to the rental agreement, in which case that was a "punishment", rightly or wrongly, that the club agreed to.
It is no secret that SISU have consistently left us wanting more during their tenure, but yet two facts remain;
1. They have invested a large sum of money in our club (albeit whilst annotating it on the balance sheet as loans).
Definition of investing: Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property etc. Definition of expend - spend or use up. If Sisu have used it up, why is much of it still on the books?
2. Everybody seemed to be happy with progress this year under SISU until this stadium debacle.
Yes, the progress from the Championship to League 1 was excellent.
Ultimately, SISU are in the right here, as painful as it might be to admit it. It has been well publicised that there are impending problems for clubs under the 'financial fair play' rules. Predominantly this is very simple, we can only spend what we make in ticket sales/sponsorship etc on sustaining the club and maintaining a competitive playing squad.
How much are we going to make at Northampton compared to the rental agreement offered in January for use of the Ricoh?
At present we make precious little, and consequently, we will really feel the bite when these rules come into force. If you think a ten point deduction is hard to swallow, the consequences of not fitting in with these rules will have our club in a serious nosedive and have us tumbling down the leagues quicker than you can say 'maybe that coffee guy was right'.
Yes, how far can we fall during the 3 years (minimum) of self-imposed income restriction for playing in Northampton?
Simply put for the primate contingent of this forum; some derp once upon a time made a real balls up when negotiating rent for our stadium and as a result, the cash we get in return for the tickets we sell aren't sufficient to support the club without the owners putting money in - which it is not viable long term for those owners to do because in time they will be prohibited from doing so.
I'm glad you are talking to the humans that inhabit this forum, not the sheep or robots or whatever. Indeed, the previous owners did balls up. I'm glad Sisu saw fit to correct it on purchasing the club. Oh, wait...
The owners are business people, and bought in with the idea one day of either taking a considerable dividend or planning an exit strategy to sell the club on. This is their right and I support that. We aren't playing subbuteo here, we're playing football manager...
Of course they do have a right to make money. Anyone who enters football for the sole purpose of making money is likely to have this ambition severely tested though.
The club had every right to request that the arena bosses revisited the rent agreement. It is in their best interests for the club to prosper! The club and the stadium are supposed to behave like husband and wife. The stadium is cheating on the club at the moment with the council! I'm sure if the club became champions league chasers, then the arena would be looking for a substantial rent increase! This works both ways....
How is the stadium cheating on the club with the council? The club handed off its interest in the stadium when it couldn't afford to pursue it. The club were reportedly offered a rental agreement based on performance but turned it down.
This exercise on SISU's part, is simply to demonstrate to the arena bosses that their arena cannot survive without the club. I support that, and you should too!
Isn't the suggestion that the arena cannot survive without the club an opinion, not a fact? ACL have said they can get by - or do you know better? If so, please share the figures with us.
If we were smart supporters instead of sheeples, your lean would be on the arena bosses and not the club. You'd all turn out in force at Northampton to support our team at home games and frighten the life out of the arena bosses. Additionally you'd all be emailing the businesses that operate on the arena site encouraging them to demand a rent decrease in line with the footfall reduction as a result of CCFC departing from the site.
I thought you said we were primates? And do you mean if we are all unscrupulous, not smart?
Our football club can only survive if we procure the stadium or have a rent agreement that allows us access to a lion share of the money that the supporters invest in watching the team!
Wouldn't it be a better use of Sisu's money to buy back those rights the club sold then rather than build a new stadium?
The council stifled the club's attempt to get serious with the arena bosses by spending FOURTEEN MILLION POUNDS OF TAXPAYERS MONEY propping up ACL. Surely on this forum there are some people who have suffered from council cuts - be it redundancy, policing deficiencies, or perhaps they turn your streetlights off at night turning your area into a criminals wet dream? How can they spend 14M of your money like that, and nobody raise any objection?
Loaned, not spent. It does not lose that money unless ACL defaults on the loan - which you have said you want.
Ultimately, if you were to protest against the council, perhaps their intervention would be punishable. Perhaps they'd have to recover their 14M and ACL would have to remortgage that 14M - Almost impossible with no viable tenants!
Why should I protest against the council for removing the high interest private sector loan and offering a lower interest one which allows the stadium management to make the club an offer to reduce the rent paid by CCFC?
Perhaps then the arena will need to be sold to the people who would most benefit from it. Not SISU - your football club!
If they want to buy it, then buy it, don't go trying to screw people out of money they spent building it because the football club couldn't.
This is all a big game of smoke and mirrors, and SISU will get their way because they are a bunch of sharks - but the supporters are making it unnecessarily difficult for them - Your allegiance is to the club, not the council - I guarantee most here have been wronged by the council some way, at some time in their lives.
Damn that council, building Coventry City a home when they were homeless, paying £900,000 a year or whatever it was to rent their former home and unable to complete the building of their new home.
The club, (in my opinion) will unlikely play long-term at Northants. But if we turned out there in force to support our team, instead of these protests of about five people that frankly look pitiful, perhaps we can affect positive change over our clubs future and restore it to former glory.
I'm glad you are confident the club will not be playing long-term in Northampton. Where is the new ground going to be built? When will Sisu acquire planning permission?
Does anyone understand how irksome it is, every time our captain posts about tennis/golf/his holiday/his pets it is for you all to turn it into some innuendo filled rant about the club and the owners.
My irk would be some, that is true.
I'm sure you will all have your problems with this post, but I could no longer be silent.
See my notes in blue
PUSB!
KCIC!
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simple_simon
New Member
Very well put.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Come on coffee reply to that?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Another one 'coffee' forget to respond to. Selective responses illustrate some gaps in his/her wisdom
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
My problem is that I can see both sides of this. I agree that the club needs to own its own ground due to FFP if nothing else. However I cannot help feeling that if SISU were not the sharks they are, they may have already negotiated this at the Ricoh.
1. The Council is not saying it will not sell the ground, it says it will not sell to SISU - as a direct result of their cynical behavior.
2. We can pretend they are selling to the club and not SISU if you like, but as sole shareholder, SISU will suck all the money out of this and leave the club like an empty husk.
3. There is absolutely no reason for SISU to flounce off the N'ton - this is pure spite. They could easily accept the 400k or whatever deal from ACL and still build their own stadium. This bit just looks childish to me.
1. The Council is not saying it will not sell the ground, it says it will not sell to SISU - as a direct result of their cynical behavior.
2. We can pretend they are selling to the club and not SISU if you like, but as sole shareholder, SISU will suck all the money out of this and leave the club like an empty husk.
3. There is absolutely no reason for SISU to flounce off the N'ton - this is pure spite. They could easily accept the 400k or whatever deal from ACL and still build their own stadium. This bit just looks childish to me.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
See above in pink
And to my most recent critic;
Or a lack of interest in arguing my points with 38 pages of largely narrow minded ignorant people who only have three interests; Picking trivial holes in my arguments, abusing Grendel, and dredging up football owner's previous mistakes to somehow absolve the real cowboys in this stadium affair of their crimes.
I think I summed it all up in the last big post on this thread I wrote. Of the multitude of replies on this thread, they fit into a small number of categories; Pedantic and obnoxious replies that largely rely on SISU's previous mistakes to somehow make them guilty by association of one here, Thug-like 'ur tlkin out ur arz m8', and 'You are TF'.
I concede; You are too smart for me.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
I have used none of the above; but gladly accept your deference.
You can't negotiate with an entity who will break the law, and renege on contracts at a whim. It's like trying to put smoke in your pockets.
What makes it even more troublesome, is an entity that will play hard-and-loose, as SISU have done with CCFC. They have done so for years with this club, continue to do so even now - and yet some people have the temerity to try and justify their immoral or illegal actions.
SISU have lost heavily in their CCFC-project. This isn't about rent. This isn't about F&B's, nor sponsorship.
They, alone can unify the club and it's stadium due to no reason other than incumbent ownership of the primary tenant of the Arena. They are using this lever to break ACL, secure the Arena at a reaction of it's true cost - and none of this for the good of the club; oh no. But to feather the nest of their exit strategy.
Believe it's for the club, it's future, it's fans? Delusional in the extreme. It's for SISU to cash in on the only card they have left, and get out of town with some return to show their stakeholders. The collateral damage? Immaterial to them
Sky Blues
Active Member
See above in pink
I won't reply to every point as the shortage of publicly available information means there will be a myriad of different views on our situation and we could go back and forth forever, but a couple of notes:
I accept that maybe I did not make my point about investment as well as I could have, but I was trying to emphasis what you yourself acknowledged, that a lot of the "investment" is in the form of loans and that Sisu have not put as much of their own cash into the club as some people sometimes seem to give them credit for.
"Loaned, not spent. It does not lose that money unless ACL defaults on the loan - which you have said you want." - this line referred to the council loan, not Sisu loans as you appear to have interpreted it as.
Reported - I used that word specifically because it is not a fact, it is a report. I am making it clear I do not know this for certain. I accept there could be another view. Your original post in many places did not offer such nuanced distinctions.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
Really speaking the bulk of both of our arguments are 'assumed' or a form of educated guess based on our personal 'real-world' experiences and the media reports. I accept very much of what you said.
That said, I feel I made some very valid points. Particularly about ACL welcoming the council owning their mortgage. Bad for both ACL and the football club IMO, and the truth is, they would not have welcomed this unless it was required; and to dress it up in stockings, suspenders and crotchless panties and pretend they welcomed it so they could offer a substantial rent reduction to CCFC is nothing short of ludicrous.
The council have a vested interest in all this, and by having this hold over the club that operates within their city; this IMO was only a control-assuming exercise on their part;
Worst still, they will not make decisions/movements in the best interests of the city's football club, because principally, they are not on good terms with it's owners. They will use their pull to influence ACL, and this will only serve to exacerbate problems and distance the associated involved parties from an amicable resolve.
This way, there are now three egos at the table instead of two, and it's only negative for the supporters of this club.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
Many businessmen (some even well-liked) have breached contract, it's a common thing. Allan Sugar screwed was sued for breach of contract with one of his apprentice candidates as I recall, National Rail contracts.....These things happen every day, it's not a capital punishment offence to breach a contract, and it's common practice in business for this to happen more often than it should. It should not rob SISU of all of their credibility.
I agree with everything else that you've said;
SISU are looking to unite stadium and club, and they are planning their exit strategy (feathering of nest). They are doing these things selfishly and for their benefit only.
Where I disagree with you, is that this will benefit the club. If they want to make money, they have to overcome obstacles and put the club back on a stable footing. Either as a sale package or as a profitable business venture.
Ultimately - SISU succeeding in their exit strategy = CCFC succeeding as a business unit.
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
I am rubber, you are glue..
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moving to Northampton means it is no longer CCFC. Why can't you see that? Is there a cast iron guarantee that this 'planned' new stadium will ever get built? I can't believe you actually support the ludicrous ground share idea, it says more about you (not in a positive way) than it does about the thousands who oppose this
just-here-4-coffee
New Member
There was only one Einstein, there were a mass of 'masses'. I'm happy standing alone in my beliefs, I don't need a band of merry men behind me.
Northampton has been approved by the FL only as a temporary measure. TF/SISU will be more than aware that to make CCFC a viable business model/an attractive sale prospect that it cant live in a different locality. On the basis of that, your argument falls flat. There is NO logic for SISU in not progressing things.
Make no mistake, SISU want the Ricoh. If ACL/CCC allow this farce to continue, i'm sure they may even procure some land (under a different company name); they may even apply for planning permission, content in the knowledge that things will be slow to progress because CCC will blow holes in their proposals.
This all gives the parties time to wait each other out.