Fisher rejects Hoffman offer (17 Viewers)

[James Smith]

Do hope Young Timothy isn't doing his sums on a Wrongulator http://boingboing.net/2011/07/28/wrongulator-a-gag-calculator-that-gives-the-wrong-outcome.html it might explain a few things though.

 

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[Colonel Mustard]

However if I was the director of a company that had managed to blow £30-60m of my investors' funds, alienated the vast majority of my remaining customers, have no prospect of returning to profit in the short to medium term, and had people using words like 'fraud' in parliament, then I'd be genuinely nervous.

I think that is to continually underestimate SISU. They didn't come to Coventry with a reputation for niceness, and obviously they have enough investors who keep putting money in for some reason ...

 

[James Smith]

In which case the council has nothing to worry about and SISU will fold.

We'll see.



Meh. The deal has been agreed.



I'll bet on SISU's accountants figuring out a way around that.

Tim said this about FFP

This is where I have to talk about Financial Fair Play and the Salary Cap.
I understand it may not be on the top of the list of priorities for a lot of supporters but it is real and it is happening.
In a nutshell, you are now only permitted to have a total first team playing squad cost (in terms of salaries and fees) which corresponds to a certain percentage of your revenue. So it is vital that we need to increase our revenue to put quality on the pitch, it’s as simple as that. It hasn’t hit us as hard this year as some of our current players fall outside the actual squad costs due to the date they signed their contracts with us. However, next season will be a completely different story as every penny we spend on players will be counted by the Football League and if we exceed our Salary Cap under the rules of Financial Fair Play, we will be immediately be placed under transfer embargo, it’s as simple as that.
So, as I say, we feel we are very close to an agreement on rent but we have to be able to access those matchday revenues. If we don’t, the playing squad will suffer and we will be placed into a downward spiral. People may say food and beverage revenues are not very significant but in the final year at Highfield Road, they amounted to more than £1million.

http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/tim-fisher-qa-673570.aspx

So we'll certainly be accessing those Matchday revenues at NTFC just a shame that they'll be nothing like the ones that the cross invoicing from the Ricoh could have produced. Downward spiral here we come, and that's not to say that the team or manager won't be giving 100% just that the manager will be serioiusly lacking in financial firepower.

Still going to NTFC might stave off the Judicial Review because I can't imagine even SISU being as dumb as to follow through with it whilst biting the hand that houses it. Oh wait........

Actually that's a fairly hollow threat about the Transfer Embargo given we've been under one for so long now. :blue:

 

[duffer]

I think that is to continually underestimate SISU. They didn't come to Coventry with a reputation for niceness, and obviously they have enough investors who keep putting money in for some reason ...

I take your point, but don't mistake nasty for smart. I think their well started to run dry some time ago, around the time of the Fox & Dann sales, and ever since then they've been dribbling the bare minimum into the club, leaving us where we are now. And I honestly think Fisher should be sweating, those 'messy' accounts are going to be the focus of some proper examination at some point soon.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

How is it a loan.

"I'm offering to pay the rent, and sharing half of that ticket money with Otium. We would just take the rent money back and the rest could be invested in the academy."

"The people who put the money up with me would take a return to cover financing and other costs. But kept to a reasonable sum."

The offer is to play for free, and returns money to SISU. If they can afford it then why don't they pay?

They want the stadium. ACL stopped negotiating with them. Perhaps as a result of that they prepared other plans which they are moving full steam ahead with.

About as redundant as your 'who's the most pissed off' measure.

Defensive (and another redundant) comment.

I don't think they're doing it on their terms at all. They were pushed into admin, and seemingly have failed to distress ACL into a fire sale of the arena.

Pushed into putting the club into admin? They seemed remarkably well-prepared if that was the case ...

They've managed to avoid handing the club over for now, certainly, but if you can see any way they're making money in the next five years then you're doing better than me. I am nervous about what they are capable of, but not respectful. In every measurable way, their running of this club has been a disaster for both them and us. They clearly are not that clever.

Clever enough to have thoroughly outfoxed ACL.

Made the point here already, ultimately the mortgage is tied to the property, and the property has value with or without the club. The taxpayer has a better chance of getting their money back with council control of the asset, than it would had it ended up in SISU's hands for bugger all.

Sounds good on paper. But how big a chunk will it take out of the council's budget each month with more local cuts coming?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I take your point, but don't mistake nasty for smart.

I assume they are smart because they have strong academic qualifications and a business that attracts wealthy investors.

I think their well started to run dry some time ago, around the time of the Fox & Dann sales, and ever since then they've been dribbling the bare minimum into the club, leaving us where we are now.

There would be no point in their move if the kitty was empty. Whether it's buying half of the Ricoh, or building a new stadium in Coventry, or building a new stadium elsewhere, they require money.

 

[rupert_bear]

I don't want to raise hopes or expectations but was told tonight and his has come from a very good source and that is the football league are under massive pressure from other football circles and Government. This Gary Hoffman proposal has been timed to perfection, the FL chairman is in print to have said they the FL very reluctantly will allow Coventry to play at Northampton but urged all parties to look for a solution asap. I believe we will see in the next day or so either an appeal to the FL or FA and then a legal challenge based on that FL statement. I was also told Northampton Town people or wobbling big time, this is going to get very, very interesting

 

[duffer]

I assume they are smart because they have strong academic qualifications and a business that attracts wealthy investors.

There would be no point in their move if the kitty was empty. Whether it's buying half of the Ricoh, or building a new stadium in Coventry, or building a new stadium elsewhere, they require money.

Interesting again, I'd judge them by their results, not their qualifications (even if we knew what they were, which we don't). And their results here, have been terrible from a financial standpoint, no?

They clearly had no genuine intention of buying half of the Ricoh, and their plans for building anywhere else seem to exist primarily in TF's head at the moment. All they've actually done is propose to move into a cheaper stadium that can generate less revenue. It'll be interesting to see over the next few months if there really is anything left in the pot, or whether the rent strike was really more about can't pay, than won't pay.

 

[dadgad]

I also think that Fisher is under enormous pressure because he's completely lost the arguments, utterly failing to garner support apart from a few dullards on GMK who think that the club's problems go back to 1883.
One of the responsibilities of the administrator is to find a solution for the business going forward.
Well how does that work with only about 7.5 % of supporters prepared to go to Northampton?

 

[duffer]

"I'm offering to pay the rent, and sharing half of that ticket money with Otium. We would just take the rent money back and the rest could be invested in the academy."

"The people who put the money up with me would take a return to cover financing and other costs. But kept to a reasonable sum."



They want the stadium. ACL stopped negotiating with them. Perhaps as a result of that they prepared other plans which they are moving full steam ahead with.



Defensive (and another redundant) comment.



Pushed into putting the club into admin? They seemed remarkably well-prepared if that was the case ...



Clever enough to have thoroughly outfoxed ACL.



Sounds good on paper. But how big a chunk will it take out of the council's budget each month with more local cuts coming?

Taking a return isn't the same as offering a loan. The deal is to play for free, with money coming back to SISU. In what way is that a worse outcome for SISU than moving to Northampton, except that it prevents SISU distressing ACL?

If you listen to PWKH of the Higgs trust, he says that SISU walked away from the deal. Everything that SISU have done since then has been designed to distress ACL.

Your comments about redundancy are in themselves. redundant. And a bit irritating in truth.

Again, if they've outfoxed ACL so well, who is sitting on the most valuable asset at the moment, with the lowest debts? ACL wouldn't want this outcome, I'd agree, but had little choice. SISU are in a far worse place. The 'win' here for SISU was to get the stadium on the cheap. They've lost.

Unlike football, finance is played out on paper, so in your words that's kind of a redundant comment. In fact "sounds good on paper" is really the whole point. If ACL can manage to keep paying the mortgage, the council make money. If they can't, then at some point presumably the site gets sold or redeveloped in whole or part, and the council make money. In fact the only way I can see the council losing money is if SISU get the site for less than market value, which seems unlikely. And on a month to month basis, this will make very little if any difference to the council's budget.

I suppose this does sound good on paper, unlike SISU's plan which sounds entirely implausible. But you seem to be defending it as the mark of genius nonetheless. Anyway, I'm turning in now, thanks for the debate.

(I should just add to this that as it stands I think we've all lost. But I know who I most blame for bringing us to this point, the financial wizards at SISU.)

 

[chiefdave]

So we'll certainly be accessing those Matchday revenues at NTFC just a shame that they'll be nothing like the ones that the cross invoicing from the Ricoh could have produced. Downward spiral here we come, and that's not to say that the team or manager won't be giving 100% just that the manager will be serioiusly lacking in financial firepower.

not sure how much revenue they'll get from NTFC, all their F&B is outsourced and Cardoza has stated they will be dealing with the extra matches and getting the money from that. He's also said that NTFC will be getting a cut of everything else. Given we're looking at a 75% or more reduction in crowds and somebody else taking a hefty chunk of the revenue streams we'll be millions worse off.

 

[chiefdave]

I was also told Northampton Town people or wobbling big time, this is going to get very, very interesting

Looking at their local paper site there does seem to be a lot more resistance to it than when it was first announced. The police don't seem happy, local residents are complaining and I've seen at least one NTFC sponsor who has said they are withdrawing as a result of this.

 

[CarpyCov84]

Seems Northampton is starting to divide over this then