Sky Blues administrator: Still time for warring parties to strike up a deal (8 Viewers)

[Godiva]

Must be a mistake about ACL receiving money in the CT article.

No, PWKH spinned that statement to give the impression ACL won't receive anything.
Go back and see my follow up question which he never replied to.
ACL will receive their money - it is most likely sitting in an escrow account administrated by Appelton and to be released when liquidation is finalized.

 

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[oldskyblue58]

Strange that ACL used the fans as a reason to reject the CVA

Do ACL want us back, they now have the car boot sale every Sunday!

first off what did you expect them to say ........... "we dont give a damn about the fans" perhaps ? .......... kind of hard when the directors are CCFC fans. The emphasis on doing it for the fans was not something I was entirely comfortable with though I have to admit

Good question "do they want us back" ..... it is a question they have to ask certainly. But I think fans get too hung up on "either or" when the reality is that it will be "as well as". The one thing this dispute has done for ACL is to sharpen the way they do business and to prove they must maximise other incomes.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think what the situation is that ACL have not received anything yet. The CT article reads like they have the money in their bank and they do not

So have they received anything from the administration - no
Have they received anything directly from the FL - no (usually FL imposed payments come from club to FL to 3rd Party)
Are they due the £595 - apparently yes
Has anything been paid yet - apparently no

Do ACL expect to actually receive it ....... well there is the question

 

[Godiva]

first off what did you expect them to say ........... "we dont give a damn about the fans" perhaps ? .......... kind of hard when the directors are CCFC fans. The emphasis on doing it for the fans was not something I was entirely comfortable with though I have to admit

Good question "do they want us back" ..... it is a question they have to ask certainly. But I think fans get too hung up on "either or" when the reality is that it will be "as well as". The one thing this dispute has done for ACL is to sharpen the way they do business and to prove they must maximise other incomes.

Which kind of proves the point Fisher made, that the ACL business model was flawed and the revenue and profit too low.

 

[Godiva]

I think what the situation is that ACL have not received anything yet. The CT article reads like they have the money in their bank and they do not

So have they received anything from the administration - no
Have they received anything directly from the FL - no (usually FL imposed payments come from club to FL to 3rd Party)
Are they due the £595 - apparently yes
Has anything been paid yet - apparently no

Do ACL expect to actually receive it ....... well there is the question

I see it this way:
Otium has bought the assets in Limited from the administrator.
In the price of £1.5m is what is owed to ACL.
The administrator has given the 'assets' to Otium - so I believe Otium has paid the £1.5m to the administrator.
The administrator is now responsible for distributing the proceeds form the sale to the creditors.

 

[oldskyblue58]

But does it remain "flawed"as TF stated when it suited him to depress the value of ACL or have they restructured more than the loans because of this dispute? Was the "flaw" as great as made out?

I doubt TF has any real insight in to the ACL Group operation past the due diligence partly completed last June. Has the ACL business model changed since, could it change further?

 

[Spionkop]

This all smacks of greedy relatives picking through the bones after a funeral.

 

[Godiva]

But does it remain "flawed"as TF stated when it suited him to depress the value of ACL or have they restructured more than the loans because of this dispute? Was the "flaw" as great as made out?

I doubt TF has any real insight in to the ACL Group operation past the due diligence partly completed last June. Has the ACL business model changed since, could it change further?

I will hope the business model is now much stronger, and I hope ACL and the Ricoh can survive without the club. If ACL is going to be part of the SBS&L umbrella it will be a political decision to sell and the price will be political decided. If the club is never to have any ownership of ACL, then if ACL can survive without the club there will be less political friction against sisu building a new stadium.

 

[singers_pore]

Mr Appleton said: "I've found no evidence of any physical transfer of assets thus far.

Well of course it wouldn't have been physical; I very much doubt a lorry turned up at Ltd and physically transferred the players to another company called Holdings. The word "physical" seems to be PA's 'get out' in case it is later revealed that there was in fact an illegal transfer of assets.

"All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."

Again - this is potentially a very misleading statement. Surely PA should be talking about the location of players' contracts that were signed prior to the date of administration.

To me these two statements are extremely suspicious in that - at first glance - they suggest no impropriety but on closer inspection they are meaningless. That makes me think that there may well have been illegal transfers of assets. If PA is confident that is not the case, then why hasn't PA said so? Why is PA using weasel words?

 

[oldskyblue58]

I see it this way:
Otium has bought the assets in Limited from the administrator.
In the price of £1.5m is what is owed to ACL.
The administrator has given the 'assets' to Otium - so I believe Otium has paid the £1.5m to the administrator.
The administrator is now responsible for distributing the proceeds form the sale to the creditors.

the administrator only owes ACL £595k if the that particular CVA proposal is accepted - which included writing off the SBS&L and CCFC H debts - it wasnt. However the CVA was rejected so the £1.5m goes in to the pot for all creditors after PA is paid. That way much of the residue goes back to SISU owned entities.

The 1.5m Otium offer was made under the terms of the bidding process. The bid document made no mention of paying ACL £595k

 

[fernandopartridge]

first off what did you expect them to say ........... "we dont give a damn about the fans" perhaps ? .......... kind of hard when the directors are CCFC fans. The emphasis on doing it for the fans was not something I was entirely comfortable with though I have to admit

Lets be fair, they don't. They should never have pretended otherwise.

 

[shropshirecov]

ACL want too much rent and a cut of what the football club generates. That's why we don't play there anymore.
Until that changes, no deal will ever be agreed.

 

[CovFan]

ACL haven't folded leaving the Ricoh Arena floating around available for a relative pittance.
Until that changes, we won't be playing in Coventry.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Les Reid has had a pro Sisu agenda for some time, despite his Editor calling for Sisu to go if they chose to take us to Northants.
This article shouts the dubious premise of getting 10 points back, without any evidence of that at all. It is designed to pressure ACL and support Sisu's aims.

Those aims are getting the Ricoh way below market value, they have been repeatedly offered lower rent deals for months on end.. If Joy had wanted to sort a rent deal they could have months ago, they don't.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Exactly Italia! Where are all the people who want to have 'the sky blues playing in their rightful home of the Ricoh arena', the people who have offered to publicly act as a mediator in a meeting between all parties.

A neutral adjudication, fully minuted which can be made for the public to view (apart from the commercial details which can be hidden). What have they got to hide (or to lose for that matter)? Perhaps only then we would see who comes up with the most bullshit! I would hazard a guess that it'd be Scrotium by a country mile although that's not to say that ACL won't have a couple of biggies up their sleeve. Where are they anyway? Probably still licking their wounds after realising that rejecting the CVA was the most pointless move in history..as well as costing them hundreds of thousands of pounds!

All of this is out of the fans control. The only people who can get us out of this mess are the people who put us in it. They owe us that much surely!

Cost them nothing.

 

[italiahorse]

Problem is that sisu do not want to be tied to the Ricoh for 10 years.
If the club is ever to play there again it will be when ACL is part of the SBS&L group.

We don't know that for definite.
They could be saying that because plan A is get it for less than it is worth.

 

[italiahorse]

Problem is that sisu do not want to be tied to the Ricoh for 10 years.
If the club is ever to play there again it will be when ACL is part of the SBS&L group.

That's why I said ... and the stadium in the next 10 years.
TF said it's a 10 year plan so the stadium and any associated incomes (like Compass) could be phased out during that period.

 

[italiahorse]

Which kind of proves the point Fisher made, that the ACL business model was flawed and the revenue and profit too low.

It was probably sound enough with the lease, but they did have their eggs all in one basket.

 

[italiahorse]

I will hope the business model is now much stronger, and I hope ACL and the Ricoh can survive without the club. If ACL is going to be part of the SBS&L umbrella it will be a political decision to sell and the price will be political decided. If the club is never to have any ownership of ACL, then if ACL can survive without the club there will be less political friction against sisu building a new stadium.

I think it's the fans more than ACL that will provide the friction.

 

[Godiva]

I think it's the fans more than ACL that will provide the friction.

I wasn't thinking about ACL - I meant CCc or other councils needing to give planning and building permission.

 

[KCskyblue]

Appleton the Dick Head

 

[Godiva]

It was probably sound enough with the lease, but they did have their eggs all in one basket.

It probably wasn't optimized even with ccfc paying rent.

 

[Godiva]

That's why I said ... and the stadium in the next 10 years.
TF said it's a 10 year plan so the stadium and any associated incomes (like Compass) could be phased out during that period.

Please don't twist it too much - they will need 4-5 year to build a new stadium, not 10.

 

[skybluetony176]

i'm confused.

i thought he said that a rent deal could not be part of the CVA and now he seems to be saying that they can do a deal?

whats changed?

 

[oldskyblue58]

No I dont think he is including a rent deal in a new CVA. That would be seperate if at all. Not sure he has the power to do that. He would also be committing Otium to settlement costs at NTFC would he have the power to do that I would not have thought so

Equally he has £1.5m to play with....... the process has now gone on a further 2 months of his costs...... is the same amount even capable of being offered let alone improved?

He must know that ACL concerns about the process have not changed and therefore with no extra money in the pot and no change in basis. What would change the ACL mind to make them consider a new cva - nothing there i can see
Therefore what is the purpose of his comments ? :thinking about:

 

[thaiskyblue]

Appleton theView attachment 2809 Dick Head

i think were the dickheads , he's milking this, caching!!

 

[mattylad]

Nothing will come of this. No CVA will be agreed now and even if it did, we wouldn't have any chance of regaining the 10 points which have been unjustly stolen from the team and fans. Imagine the uproar from the rest of the League! The FL would come under even more spotlight than they have done already!

' "All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."

He said he could not say if he had seen all players' contracts. '

This is they key part for me. What a useless twat this guy is. He's been 'investigating' since March and has found absolutely fuck all! Probably still looking for the golden share!!

Of course all of the contracts SINCE administration are in Holdings you muppet, after a certain date Fisher will have ensured they all were. What about prior to administration, which is what you were actually tasked with investigating?!

Just take your money and fuck off Appleton you've done more than enough damage. 'officer of the court' my arse!

Yep that somes it up just about nicely

 

[SIR ERNIE]

No I dont think he is including a rent deal in a new CVA. That would be seperate if at all. Not sure he has the power to do that. He would also be committing Otium to settlement costs at NTFC would he have the power to do that I would not have thought so

Equally he has £1.5m to play with....... the process has now gone on a further 2 months of his costs...... is the same amount even capable of being offered let alone improved?

He must know that ACL concerns about the process have not changed and therefore with no extra money in the pot and no change in basis. What would change the ACL mind to make them consider a new cva - nothing there i can see
Therefore what is the purpose of his comments ? :thinking about:

Appleton is in SISU's pocket. Always has been. His comments are consistent with SISUs overall aim. They're designed to further distress/pressurise ACL/CCC into selling the site to the football club owners who then sell it on at a huge profit. Expect more of this.

 

[James Smith]

So acl get the same money whether they agree the cva or not? Why would people be calling on then to reject it?

Actually from reading that I don't think ACL were always going to get their full amount if they rejected the CVA. The reason they did (or will - have they had it yet) was because the FL were saying if you want the Golden Share back Otium/SISU/CCFC then you need to pony up the dough.

 

[James Smith]

ACL - Get on phone to SISU offer them a rental deal and the stadium in the next 10 years.
SISU - Agree with ACL a deal .
ACL - If deal is not possible tell us what was offered
SISU - Tell us why you turned it down.

That works both ways:
SISU - Get on phone to ACL offer to rent the stadium in the next 10 years and talk about ownership.
ACL - Agree a deal with SISU that works.

The only problem is if SISU are still doing NOPM against ACL, which will bugger any chance of a rent deal.

 

[Spionkop]

As Sir Ernie says, Appleton has been in Sisu's pocket since day one. Corrupt as heck.

 

[Godiva]

As Sir Ernie says, Appleton has been in Sisu's pocket since day one. Corrupt as heck.

Really?
Is he corrupt because a poster on the forum says so or do you have actual proof to back your accusation?

 

[torchomatic]

Along with Greg Clarke, Greg Dyke, Les Reid...etc, etc, etc

As Sir Ernie says, Appleton has been in Sisu's pocket since day one. Corrupt as heck.

 

[Godiva]

Along with Greg Clarke, Greg Dyke, Les Reid...etc, etc, etc

It is surely one massive conspiracy.
Or is it a case of 'a thief that believes everybody steals'?

 

[sky blue john]

Appleton is probably thinking that another 12 months of this and there will be no pot left after his fees !!!!